CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[cloudajo]

In the Disappeared episode, when they say “Jeff resumed his repairs” they re-enact him working on the toilet in the upstairs hall bathroom. Attached again are two actual police photos showing that bathroom (from the Disappeared show).

From Fontelle - July 2013:

“Truthfully, I think he was murdered in that bathroom upstairs. Maybe intentionally…maybe accidentally,” said Harrod.

The wife said the bathroom was damaged and repaired. Before that, Bob confided that he had a heated discussion with his family who wanted the marriage annulled.

-------

From Disappeared episode:

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away- do you know where Bob is because he's not answering the door and Jeff was just asking me, "Are you supposed to be here today?" I said, "Yeah, Bob knew I was coming today."

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn't tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

[snipped]

Narrator: Uncertain about what to do next, Agnes began cleaning while Jeff resumed his repairs.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/07/30/after-4-year-search-missing-placentia-mans-wife-suspects-foul-play/

 

[zwiebel]

On the left hand side of the lid of the toilet cistern, partially beneath the box of tissues, there is something uneven or sticking out. Do those cisterns have an access point on the top, does anyone know? I had presumed it was a push button flush, but there is a handle on the front of the cistern, so it can't be that.

Could it be a large breakage hole, that has been clumsily filled with some sort of filler?

 

[zwiebel]

Here on the lid is where I mean:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1780&pictureid=16122

 

[zwiebel]

None of these cisterns seem to have anything on the lid at all - unless it is a push button, but then they don't have a handle on the front.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbzae/h_d2/Navigation?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

There definitely seems to be something on - or wrong with - with the lid of Bob's cistern, underneath the tissue box.

 

[zwiebel]

Could it be a doily underneath the tissue box, to stop it slipping? But then, why's it all bunched up under one end like that?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Good thought! That house was built in the 1970s, so the walls are almost certainly sheetrock rather than plaster. In a dry climate like Placentia, sheetrock gets dried out and brittle pretty quickly. It's easy to knock a hole into a wall.

And no matter how skilfully it is patched, it almost always shows up. Particularly if the entire wall is not repainted afterwards and the patch is just painted with some leftover paint from the original paint job. The paint that is on the walls oxidises with time, gets dust and oils stuck to it and suffers light damage, so that it is no longer precisely the original colour.

Since Fontelle had been in the house 3 weeks before, she would know if there was a new patch in the bathroom... finding one would lead her to believe that Bob was killed there. I know that's what I would think.

I assumed they took dogs throughout the house sniffing for a deceased body? but this would have had to occurred between 10 or so and noon when the cl showed up yes?

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

With Jeff coming and going in and out of the house that day, Agnes would have no idea what would be a good time to arrange for Bob to disappear, or do something nasty to Bob, and frame Jeff for whatever she did. So, it would be very risky for someone who is rarely at Bob's house to "disappear" Bob without being caught in the act. She wouldn't be aware of the daily rhythm.

Her mode of transportation was not released by police, or in statements made by Agnes to media. The reference to the SUV was made by Jeff, which just so happened to coincide with the description of the SUV driven by the barber, Josie. Josie has an alibi for the timeline of possibilities for Bob to go missing - according to the police. I could be mistaken, but the family might still be throwing Josie under the bus as the culprit.



"Jeff is coming" is a phrase taken from Agnes' story of her changing her day to come and clean. I've always seen it being akin to telling her that she would be cleaning with someone possibly getting in her way. I believe it's important to tell the house cleaner that there will be someone else in the house he/she is trying to clean. Jeff was there to do repairs. There was bound to be elbows bumping.

Agnes was not a daily house cleaner. There was a large chunk of time when Bob wouldn't see his daughters, and their families due to in-fighting; approximately 6 months. It doesn't strike me as odd that Jeff wouldn't know Agnes.

Jeff claims Bob didn't tell him she was coming. If he didn't know who she was, or believe her when she told him who she was, why would he let her in the house? If he didn't know her, it's another strange event for that day. He left her there alone to go to the hardware store. If I didn't know someone, or know OF them, I wouldn't leave them alone in my house, or a loved one's house.

Agnes probably had her cell with her. The house was empty. She knew no one was inside the house. Bob didn't carry a cell. They used the house phone. She more than likely wouldn't have called the empty house.

If she was behind his disappearance, or did it herself, what was her motive? At the most, she was a weekly cleaner. I don't believe she was there on a regular weekly basis. I believe we learned that back 4 years ago when going through the routine business of eliminating people. Hopefully, one of the other posters can help me remember where I got that info. Anyway, for the sake of our chat, let's say she was a one/week cleaner. What would she gain? I'm not sure there's anything much for her to gain from killing Bob. Would she expect to replace Georgia as the woman of the house? Is that a reasonable expectation for a woman that only sees Bob once/week?

There haven't been any indications, to this point, that Bob and Agnes had a romantic relationship. There haven't been any indications that Bob was a player. (My reference to the daughter's implications of Bob and Josie's relationship) Different statements seem to point to his depression, grieving, weight loss (Poor eating habits - TV dinners, etc.) due to the passing of Georgia.

The main reason I don't like her as a suspect, she was still there when Jeff returned from the Home Depot. If she was clever enough to "disappear Bob, she was clever enough to be gone when he returned. :rose:




Catch her in the act of doing what?
Can you tell me, was she dropped off that day? Or does anyone know?
SUV perhaps?......OTHER than what the cl said about how she got there.

quote...[/color][/color]
However, we have been told by media reports that Agnes was told "Jeff is coming" by Bob...end of quote.
Sorry, dont believe it. Bob is not here to confirm that. SO someone whom bob told told the cl that jeff was coming.....I am not even sure what that means........Jeff is coming. NOPE, SORRY dont believe it..........J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there. But doesn't matter.

When J showed up, DId she say to him something like, OH, you must be J Bob told me you would be coming by. Did she say that............I bet 10 dollars she didnot. And I beet she had a cell phone with her that day, did she call anyone and say i am at bobs house and hes not here and there is no key in the mailbox, or did she just set there and wait as she said she did?

[/quote]
I have had a couple or so postings removed which has thrown a wrench into my thoughts. In fact i have a blank mind not sure where I was at. That last posting of mine that was removed i think it may had been removed by mistake. I don't think it refereed to a video that did-not include a link. But I am not 100 percent sure. Going to take awhile to get back on track for i don't remember what i posted because i post as i think of things.
But I wanted you to read it.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I assumed they took dogs throughout the house sniffing for a deceased body? but this would have had to occurred between 10 or so and noon when the cl showed up yes?

My first reaction was that they did bring in a HRD dog but now I can't remember if that was a fact or not.

In any case, if Bob had been placed within a wall cavity, there would be a terrible odour easily detectable by a human. Even a mouse that dies inside a wall will generate quite a lot of odour, so imagine something that weighs 150 pounds decomposing.

I have been wondering what it is that makes Fontelle feel that the upstairs bathroom was the place where Bob was attacked. A repaired patch in the wall would sure make me wonder and would be something that could be done in a few hours. Such as the time the CL was in the house and JeM was working on something in that bathroom.

 

[zwiebel]

I assumed they took dogs throughout the house sniffing for a deceased body? but this would have had to occurred between 10 or so and noon when the cl showed up yes?

Contemporary news articles say for two days police thought they were dealing with a case of cold feet, so I don't think dogs were used at first.

As far as I know, we don't know for certain of any searches that were carried out, except for;

The police 'welfare check' with grandson AH, on the night of Monday 27 July, (no dogs) and then there was a search carried out in 2011, which a neighbour spotted, I think. I don't know if dogs were used then. Someone else might though.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

My first reaction was that they did bring in a HRD dog but now I can't remember if that was a fact or not.

In any case, if Bob had been placed within a wall cavity, there would be a terrible odour easily detectable by a human. Even a mouse that dies inside a wall will generate quite a lot of odour, so imagine something that weighs 150 pounds decomposing.

I have been wondering what it is that makes Fontelle feel that the upstairs bathroom was the place where Bob was attacked. A repaired patch in the wall would sure make me wonder and would be something that could be done in a few hours. Such as the time the CL was in the house and JeM was working on something in that bathroom.

It's also one of those jobs that unless you have the foresight to buy quick-drying plaster, you need to finish and smooth the next day, when the patch-up plaster has dried.

If a hole's been knocked in a large wall section, if I repair it, I screw a piece of string to a repair section, put adhesive on the edges, work it into the hole and then pull it forward and tie the string to something while it sets. Once it dries, it can then be repaired without all the filler just dropping down into the cavity. It makes the repair less obtrusive than using wire mesh or something on the surface.

If it's done well, it can look okay - but I've found if it gets knocked again it can all cave in, right in the shape of the original damage. If I wanted to test if a wall had been damaged and repaired, I'd tap it lightly with a hammer, and see what happens.

 

[believe09]

Thank you cloudajo- So Bob received a call around 10AM. He did not dial out. And that phone conversation seems to be solid enough that LE believes this is Bob's last known contact outside of whatever his family has provided.

Guess that leaves PB's phone call kind of in the dust.

 

[believe09]

In Disappeared, the SUV was white. As we discussed, this was an expensive production. This was not lazieness on their part-they obtained a Ridgeline to use that duplicated JeM's. There is a reason that SUV was pictured as white, not black. I firmly believe that.

Let me change this up some-what if JeM actually saw a white SUV traveling back and forth up and down the street but not BL's black one...the one he had JuM report to Fontelle. I suppose it is possible that someone in a White SUV was driving up and down the street was waiting to be motioned into the house, to park in the driveway or on the street.

I think that there was another white or light colored oversized vehicle involved in all of this, fwiw.

 

[zwiebel]

If there was another vehicle involved, that might explain what I thought could be tyre tracks on the lawn. If there were already two vehicles parked on Bob's drive, the only way another vehicle could have got close to the house would have been to drive at least partly on the grass. That would have taken their vehicle up to the passage leading to Bob's front door.

I'm not sure if a third vehicle could have squeezed in the other side, where the back gate is.

 

[zwiebel]

I've just noticed something. In the Long Lost Love transcript, it says Bob's WHITE Camry was parked in the drive;
CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

All this time I thought the brownish car beside it was Bob's, because that was the vehicle the camera seemed to zoom in on in this news item;
ktla com3 - YouTube

I can't believe I've been making that mistake for so long.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you cloudajo- So Bob received a call around 10AM. He did not dial out. And that phone conversation seems to be solid enough that LE believes this is Bob's last known contact outside of whatever his family has provided.

Guess that leaves PB's phone call kind of in the dust.

I've been looking back through things, and after the Namus entry, PB doesn't seem to have mentioned her last call to Bob at all - it wasn't even mentioned on the Long Lost Love episode.

I wonder if she will ever reveal what her Dad actually said to her, the last time they ever spoke? At the moment, all anyone knows is what her brother- in- law was saying in the background. It's a bit sad that a father's last words to his daughter seem to have been reduced to a description of a 'favorable response'.

I don't even know why what brother-in-law said is in that Namus entry - I'd have thought what Bob said was much more relevant. He's the one who went missing.

 

[believe09]

So on the strength of that report that cloudajo posted, I think we can infer what LE thinks of PB's contribution to the timeline from the morning.

IMO we are circling back to when did you last have contact with Bob etc...I think it seems even safer now for me to be skeptical that there was a conversation between PB and Bob. Although maybe there was some element of truth there-maybe there were two voices she heard and one was her BIL.

Another item that points to people orchestrating their responses to his disappearance/now murder.

 

[believe09]

If I have learned one thing about this family, it is that they all assign responsibility elsewhere. PB writes what BIL says, perhaps, because she doesnt have to take the blame for the information.

I dont know. All of this makes me very sad. I really want to cling to a heated exchange that got out of control and everyone panicked.

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully bolded and snipped by me ...

I should have addressed this in my long post above, but spent all of my time addressing the other issues.

To my knowledge, Jeff has never indicated that he didn't know Agnes, only stated that he didn't know she was coming, as Bob hadn't told him. Could you tell me where you found this info?

There was no indication that he didn't recognize her either. Both of these statements are new to me. Thanks

:rose:

J said he didn't even know whom she was? So i can assume she didnt know whom J was when they met there at the house. Strange the J didn't even recognize her after 10years her working there.

 

[MaryNo]

Months ago, and I haven't abandoned the idea, I played with the idea that the incident happened in the house, and Bob may have been taken to a holding place until the culprit could figure out what to do with him.

I don't believe Bob was dead when he left the house, but BELIEVED to be dead.

Anyway, with such a narrow timeframe, it's highly possible that Bob reached his final destination after 6 p.m. With Alice cleaning the house (destroying evidence), and Jeff doing repairs (destroying evidence), and if Bob weren't dead, nothing should have been too abnormal at Bob's house when the police arrived.

(It doesn't seem that the repairs were high priority that day, and possibly, instead of repairs, it was "Operation Cover-up" going on while Agnes was cleaning the house. To me, there's a reason no one returned the next day to finish the repairs, as promised. However, someone did come down the hill and change the sheets .. alone .. without fear of the perp returning to the neighborhood.)

I thank you for raising this issue again, because I would LOVE to know if there was an empty house/shed/garage in which to dump Bob for the afternoon. :rose:

Does anyone know if AHs house was usually empty of the wife and kids during the day?
Did Bob ever go over there?

I wonder if he went over (maybe with JeM) to talk to AH about money and whatever went down went down there?
It wouldn't explain why JeM took so long upstairs "checking on Bob" for the CL, but would explain some other things.

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully snipped by me ...

I also have issues with that long distance claim. He would have had to pay something for long distance when calling Fontelle, at the very least.

I believe that Bob's ex-neighbor also stated that Bob had a tough time with the cell. Josie's (barber) son went to Bob's house, and showed him how to use it. Bob still didn't like it, because he couldn't see the display. (Adding this for people new to Bob's case)

I don't know how to quote, or bring over posts from closed threads, but I believe (Bob's ex-neighbor) CA Exile's posts are in the first 3 threads of Bob's case.

I get it sre-if he was on a cell phone, then he may have been elsewhere when someone spoke to him at 10 ish.

I dont know how convinced I am about the long distance calling thing, tbh. I think that was another overplayed hand. His outbound and inbound calls were available from the phone company and PPD got the records-we know that from several sources. One of them is PB. It was her post, a chuckling one IIRC, that indicated he didnt know how to use his cell phone. Then again, this is the same family that said he didnt drive on the highway...PPD debunked that one as well.