CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Grainne Dhu]

Your responce to what i have done was felt on a spiritual level.

And your last comment hi lighted in red by me was exceptional!
I really felt that.
Thank you.
Perhaps you know why i did that, and we may find out together.

DID he say something at the meeting about adding her, and they all forgot, or DID he just think he mentioned it and told her?
You seem to be working on a intuitive level from time to time, and not just what we have physically to discuss.

I am not sure I want to go that deep. It can cause you to post things that don't exist.
Do you understand?

I think I do understand. I have an open mind about such things because I have never seen a psychic make a statement based on their powers that I actually believed (I think they are all consciously or subconsciously cold reading) but I have seen some things in my life for which there is no explanation via natural means.

I do try to exhaust any rational explanations and possibilities first.

We do have some knowledge of Bob's version of what happened at that meeting because Bob called Fontelle that evening and relayed his version to her. We have an inkling of how at least one of his daughters regarded the trust and her position as beneficiary from the letter she sent to his lawyer about two weeks before Bob disappeared. We also know that his daughters reported the BL for elder abuse via fraud (which may or may not have been founded but it is true that Bob denied it).

In light of those two facts, it seems to me likely that Bob did inform his daughters that he was planning to add Fontelle to his accounts and to provide for her financially. That is also consistent with my impression of Bob's personality of being an old fashioned gentleman who would consider it part of his marital duty to make sure his wife was supported.

As for the question of why Bob would give the BL the gift of a substantial sum of money but make it clear to his daughters and grandson that they were receiving loans, charging rent of one of his daughters, etc, one explanation could be the fact that he was father and grandfather. A concern for many wealthy families is how to assure the children 'launch' properly and don't just rely on family wealth. No such concern would be felt for the BL because she was not his daughter.

For a different (and well documented) example, Mick Jagger's ex-wife Jerry Hall has been giving interviews in which she states her unhappiness that Jagger won't buy each of their children a house. She points out that he can easily afford to do so. I can understand why he has not done so, however. He wants his children to be self reliant, to be capable of dealing with the vicissitudes of life without relying on him to bail them out whenever they run into a rough patch.

I think something of the same mentality was in play behind Bob's decision to give loans with interest and charge rent. He would have been hoping that they would not rely on their eventual inheritance.

Whatever his reasoning, the fact is that the co-conservators (PB and RB) sued the BL and lost. Resoundingly. In such a way as to make them look really foolish.

 

[believe09]

As for the question of why Bob would give the BL the gift of a substantial sum of money but make it clear to his daughters and grandson that they were receiving loans, charging rent of one of his daughters, etc, one explanation could be the fact that he was father and grandfather. A concern for many wealthy families is how to assure the children 'launch' properly and don't just rely on family wealth. No such concern would be felt for the BL because she was not his daughter.

Springing off of your post, Grainne-

Bob had a lifetime with his offspring. We dont know what his history was for financial support and bailing them out. The same holds true for AH. We dont know if Bob hit an absolute limit and decided that the well had run dry and that it was time to pay him back for what was borrowed...we dont know what kinds of promises might have been made in the past regarding restoring the sums of money he handed out.

We have two windows of insight-we have AH walking from a debt that was an asset of the estate and that had accumulated to close to 700K. We have PB deferring her rent payments until the estate is distributed-her rent payments will go against her share of the estate. At least one of them bailed immediately on his responsibility. I am unaware of the time frame when PB stopped her obligation-certainly it was by the trial in October 2011.

Guess PB knew Bob wasnt going to return either.

In any case, given those two examples it is hard to get a clear picture of the financial dealings between these family members, but it certainly is provocative.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I would never dream of accusing daughter JuM of consistency, and I don't thinks she's said anything about the meeting anyway, but daughters RB and PB have been pretty consistent about that Sunday, including the use of caps to stress their points;

The meeting was NOT heated
The meeting was NOT about Fontelle, she was NOT discussed
The meeting WAS only to obtain copies of their Mother's will
It was nothing to do with money

But just a little looking around and you will also find

PB saying sister RB and Bob were both quick to temper at the meeting
Bob got flustered
Sister JuM ran around finding missing documents
(Even though the meeting was just to get copies of the will which RB said bob 'didn't have')
Elder sisters saying they were laughing and joking and teasing Bob about Fontelle
One sister saying she was 'long gone by then', which implies they did not all leave at the same time so not all of them can know that the meeting was never heated, about money, or about Fontelle.

They have all been pretty consistent in not mentioning if son-in-law or grandson were present at the meeting as well though.

They seem to be pretty universal in not recalling what Bob was wearing and whether he had certain personal habits such as always wearing his Masonic ring. Oh and not remembering if Bob used more than one pair of glasses.

Sometimes what isn't said or done is more indicative than what is said. Such as AH not making his August mortgage payment four days after Bob disappeared.

I've said it before and I'll say it now: if someone were truly not sure if the private party who held their mortgage was alive or dead, the usual (and honourable) things to do are either continue making payments as usual or open an escrow account to place the payments into.

In fact, he wouldn't even have to go through opening the escrow account. I feel sure that his lawyer or Bob's lawyer has one as part of their law business, so just contact either lawyer, explain the situation and ask them to hold the money in trust.

The dishonest thing to do is just stop paying.

 

[zwiebel]

For me, the back to the basics is this:

PB-when did you last see and speak with your father, and where were you and where was he and what was he wearing.

RB: when did you last see and speak with your father, and where were you and where was he and what was he wearing

JuM: when did you last see and speak with your father, and where were you and where was he and what was he wearing

JeM: when did you last see and speak with your fFIL, and where were you and where was he and what was he wearing

AH: when did you last see and speak with your GF, and where were you and where was he and what was he wearing.

etc...

It's a huge omission that four years on, this information has not been provided. It's nicht normal, as we say over here.

From the beginning, daughters pointed to money as a motive. Members of the public concerned about Bob took their cue from them - there just wasn't any other useful information about Bob made available. It took LE a little time to come around to daughter's way of thinking, but they've now stated too that money is probably the motive for Bob's disapppearance.

'Long Lost Love' was a chance for daughters and son-in-law to put out to the world every bit of information that might help find him. They chose to speak mostly about money again. They gave an impression to viewers that can be seen loud and clear on the program's FB page. Yet viewers were left more than a little in the dark about exactly what transpired on the day Bob disappeared; who was in the house with him that day, what time Bob could have disappeared, etc.

Again and again daughters have reminded people how Bob's money is a purely private matter and shouldn't be discussed in relation to his case, while talking about little else themselves. I believe they honestly haven't realized what they are doing, and that if they had been more forthcoming with basic information that might help find Bob, people could have concentrated on that.

As it is, huge gaps in information like what time Bob was last seen and spoken to, and what he was wearing, have been filled with the spectre of Bob's money. I guess they always will be, until some information more useful to locating him becomes available.

 

[zwiebel]

Looking through every available photo of Bob in the two months before his disappearance, he doesn't appear to be wearing a masonic ring in any of them.

He does appear to be wearing the same white belt with a rectangular metal buckle in all of them where his belt can be seen.

It might be helpful to the search for him if those in the best position to do so could make some efforts to clarify if those items were left at his home or missing, if that's still possible at this late stage.

 

[MaryNo]

I've had to make these same posts a couple of times in these threads It's not a problem!

Between me and you, I think certain people wish they didn't know her LOL She provides us with a bit of a timeline, and a couple of tidbits on Bob that we'd never known, ie; unmade bed, slippers still by side of bed.

:rose:

:banghead::seeya:

Well!...I was going to go back to the transcript and copy and paste it here so you could read it for yourself and I just discovered its not there!

In fact I was originally going to post that J said he didn't recognize her because she appeared differently.

I would have bet my paycheck that information was in the transcript because I read it. Apparently I didn't. So I don't have an answer for you to why I posted that information. Thats one reason i mentioned i would read it at various mental speeds, to make sure i was reading something correctly. I guess I was not reading slow enough! I am sorry for the miss information and will try not to let it happen again..But WOW, I was so sure what i posted was accurate.....

And I just discovered the meeting took place at BOBS!!....Once again I would have lost my paycheck in a bet, because i would have bet it was in the transcript that the meeting took place at one of the sisters home.

I have no answer to why I did this. I just don't know.

IF, I do read it somewhere, Ill be sure to let you know with a link, email something as I continue to look at this investigation.

 

[Oriah]

I dont know if anyone needs to add another single post to yours z, lol.

'Cause, there you go. That's the story and they are sticking to it.

Or at least some of them are, because given the pressure coming down I wonder if everyone is holding firm with their stories.

I think there's a lot of pressure, too. And let's re-address- if we could redirect for a moment?

The keys that Agnes thought might be in the mailbox, they were not in the mailbox.
Where were those keys?

The vehicle that everyone thought should be in the driveway, was in the driveway- and then not in the driveway- and then in the driveway again.
Where did that vehicle go when it was not in the driveway?

Mr. Harrod was somewhere, when these things were happening.

Where?

 

[Oriah]

I would never dream of accusing daughter JuM of consistency, and I don't thinks she's said anything about the meeting anyway, but daughters RB and PB have been pretty consistent about that Sunday, including the use of caps to stress their points;

The meeting was NOT heated
The meeting was NOT about Fontelle, she was NOT discussed
The meeting WAS only to obtain copies of their Mother's will
It was nothing to do with money

But just a little looking around and you will also find

PB saying sister RB and Bob were both quick to temper at the meeting
Bob got flustered
Sister JuM ran around finding missing documents
(Even though the meeting was just to get copies of the will which RB said bob 'didn't have')
Elder sisters saying they were laughing and joking and teasing Bob about Fontelle
One sister saying she was 'long gone by then', which implies they did not all leave at the same time so not all of them can know that the meeting was never heated, about money, or about Fontelle.

They have all been pretty consistent in not mentioning if son-in-law or grandson were present at the meeting as well though.

I sometimes wish they had a brother.

 

[sreshowtime]

Mr H didn't put the key in the mail box because he didn't know he wasn't going to be there. And it is possibly something that was over looked in the 'grand scheme'...so maybe no one else really knew CL WAS coming that day, therefore no key. Oops!
Without knowing whether Mr. H left a plain single key or one on a small key chain, even if one were found around the house, how to tell what it goes to , if the locks were changed?

Oh and why would Mr. H go for a walk or to the neighbors, ahem, if he knew CL was coming...wouldn't he have showed back up to let her in? Or have been there? Around the time she was to come?

 

[sreshowtime]

What if he did inadvertently leave with someone, on his own two feet, after that 10 am ish call.... maybe he was expecting to return before CL was supposed to come, so no key needed.

 

[zwiebel]

I think there's a lot of pressure, too. And let's re-address- if we could redirect for a moment?

The keys that Agnes thought might be in the mailbox, they were not in the mailbox.
Where were those keys?

The vehicle that everyone thought should be in the driveway, was in the driveway- and then not in the driveway- and then in the driveway again.
Where did that vehicle go when it was not in the driveway?

Mr. Harrod was somewhere, when these things were happening.

Where?

Oriah, I'm behind here - was there a point where Bob's car disappeared from his drive? I've never heard that, and that could be vitally important.

PS: If it's me mixing things up because I confused the two cars on his drive in the news video shot the day after Bob vanished, I apologise!

 

[zwiebel]

What if he did inadvertently leave with someone, on his own two feet, after that 10 am ish call.... maybe he was expecting to return before CL was supposed to come, so no key needed.

Interesting.

So if Bob left at ten-ish, and knew the housekeeper was arriving at Noon and didn't bother putting the key back because he knew he would be back well in time to let her in.....

Well, the absolute maximum is a two-hour there and back journey Bob would have been expecting. But he wouldn't have cut things so fine, I'm sure. So let's say he expected a 90 min journey, max. 25 minutes there, 25 minutes back and that leaves 40 minutes for him to have done whatever it is he thought he was going to do. All give or take five or ten minutes or so.

So I wonder if there was a store, family member or friend living within a half hour journey from Bob's house, where he may have thought he was being taken, the day he disappeared?

If Bob was even more of a stickler for time, he might have allowed just an hour. That would reduce the journey time there and back to 20 minutes; ten minutes each way. Still allowing him 40 mins to do whatever he thought he was going to do.

 

[sreshowtime]

what if Mr H was under the assumption he was going on a 'quick' trip with someone, so left no key? and something uhh unusual transpired?
Maybe there are 2 different/persons, time frames involving Mr. H and whom he was with.
If the CL hadn't of showed up, surprise! Then no one would have really been any the wiser? Almost seems like her showing up kind of put a new spin on it.
If she hadn't of showed up, there is no telling 'when ' he would/could have been said he disappeared.

( is there really an 'official' time for the CL getting there? I am sorry I am mixed up.. I have seen 1:30 and then 3 something around the HD receipt time)

 

[believe09]

My thoughts on the keys-for 10 years there was a routine. Either Bob/Georgia were at the house or there was a key left in the mailbox.

Seriously, what are the odds that there was no key left in the mailbox on that specific day. I mean, another epic coincidence, right?

My vote is that Bob hadnt gone out and didnt expect to leave the house that morning. Depending on the real time of the around 10AM phone call, it may have been too early to transact business anyway.

 

[tamild]

Interesting.

So if Bob left at ten-ish, and knew the housekeeper was arriving at Noon and didn't bother putting the key back because he knew he would be back well in time to let her in.....

Well, the absolute maximum is a two-hour there and back journey Bob would have been expecting. But he wouldn't have cut things so fine, I'm sure. So let's say he expected a 90 min journey, max. 25 minutes there, 25 minutes back and that leaves 40 minutes for him to have done whatever it is he thought he was going to do. All give or take five or ten minutes or so.

So I wonder if there was a store, family member or friend living within a half hour journey from Bob's house, where he may have thought he was being taken, the day he disappeared?

If Bob was even more of a stickler for time, he might have allowed just an hour. That would reduce the journey time there and back to 20 minutes; ten minutes each way. Still allowing him 40 mins to do whatever he thought he was going to do.

Home Depot?

 

[zwiebel]

Lol tamild, I was just looking at their website!

I got distracted by the opening hours: 6am -10pm everyday except Sunday, when it's 8am-8pm.

 

[zwiebel]

Here are the local stores:

http://localad.homedepot.com/HomeDepot/StoreLocation?StoreID=2399331&MapCityStateZip=92831

I recall someone now posting that the nearest store is a 7 min journey away. With the way I drive, you could double that. But even for a normal driver, you could add a few minutes for parking up and stuff.

Given the repairs going on, Home Depot does seem a likely destination if Bob thought he was popping out anywhere. I think a daughter said Bob hated going to Home Depot though...

 

[tamild]

Lol tamild, I was just looking at their website!

I got distracted by the opening hours: 6am -10pm everyday except Sunday, when it's 8am-8pm.

Help refresh my memory, Zweibel. What is it we were told about how Bob paid for things? No debit card? Wrote checks? Used cash? I'm wondering how JeM paid for the items he bought, and if Bob would've been asked to ride along to write a check for something expensive.

 

[zwiebel]

I wish we knew if Bob was likely to have been up and dressed by 9am. I tend to think yes, and Mr Z is certain Bob would have been.

If he was, his clothing obviously wasn't that memorable though.

 

[zwiebel]

Doesn't son-in-law JeM's early morning visit to the pharmacy imply there was no attempt to keep his visit to Bob's house secret, as that would always have been proof he was in the area?