CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

BBM

Seen bobs name mentioned here last couple of years or so but never read anything until now...I have read the information by askforniana, and the utube video that followed not long after...I know some of you may know the answers to my questions without even looking, so I post for you to save many hours in looking for something you could answer in seconds. And its not because I am to lazy to read, just looking to save time.

As far as the son in law, nothing there really im guessing, the LEOS, have done and probably continuation to do a very good investigation into this case.

the three sisters involved?...If just one maybe, but all three i would say no. To hold there story together this long and not fall apart somewhere id look elsewhere for involment.

I found myself more interested in what the cleaning lady had to say since she had cleaned for past 10 years i believe i read. She would known him better than the daughters during those years for coming to clean everywhere i think it was. I am sure they had conversations over time, about things. past things current things such as marriage , new woman coming to live there............Just thinking out loud, wondered if the cleaning lady thought she was going to be the next MRSZ?? After all she did clean for the man over ten years? But I guess the LEOS CHECKED that out also and find nothing correct?

The bed was not made, out of order according to her. and no key was left to get in like on a normal cleaning day, could have just forgotten i guess.

How did the cleaning lady get there? She drive there to?
So jeff goes gets supplies, and in between the time he left and the cleaning lady arrives in between that time Bob is gone?

If he walked away, i think they would have found him by now. So i speculate he left the area by transportation means. Not his car of course, but he did take the keys and his wallet?

Did bob have any regular drivers? Once a month week, or whatever that would come by and pick him up for what ever reasons, perhaps even on this day?

Investigating as a homicide and not a missing persons case. So though no money shown taken or disturbed from his accounts, money or position or promises made but not kept could have left to his death. A day before she was to arrive at her new home, jeff leaves, cleaning lady shows up bobs gone.

I like to see the official LEOs report from the interview they had with the cleaning lady.
Is that possible.

Quote...Normally, she cleans Bob's house on Tuesday, but this week she'd arranged to come on Monday...end of qutoe
The day the cleaning lady made, changing it from tuesday to monday is the day he came up missing. Bob didnt change it, the cleaning lady changed it.............Do we know that for fact? DID bob tell someone that the cleaning lady changed the day. And bob just forgot to leave the key for monday, instead of tuesday. DID ANYONE KNOW, that the day had been changed,

Welcome to Bob's thread, Mr TT!
From reading around, I have the definite impression that the housekeeper is unusual...In that she seems to be only female close to Bob who the daughters had no problem with at all.

It's just my opinion, but I think that's because the daughters were certain she was not interested in Bob's money, and she actually turned to the daughters when she was concerned about Bob during his grieving period for his first wife.

As far as I can tell nobody - including Bob's daughters - have ever suggested the housekeeper tried to exploit Bob in any way, though she was ideally placed to do so. I think what she knows is probably crucial to the case and that's why we haven't heard much from her. I think LE have asked her not to discuss the case, myself.

 

[chris24]

That letter...all I can say is WOW!!

Like I said in another of Bob's threads...if my dad was generous enough to include me in a trust I wouldn't be questioning him and contacting lawyers about getting copies of documents and cutting my own father off. Instead I would be like "wow, thanks Dad."

That family is guilty as sin to me. Poor Bob.

 

[zwiebel]

I think these two quotes from Long Lost Love are quite relevant to the housekeeper's role. The last shows how she could easily have exploited Bob, and chose not to. I believe family were aware of this and trusted her.

Narrator: 'Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn't tell Jeff that she would be coming that day.'

Agnes: 'He was telling me that he just had no desire to go nowhere and he doesn't like to be alone. He wanted to have a relationship and actually he wanted somebody younger because he didn't want somebody to die on him.'

ETA - first quote is referring to son-in-law, second to Bob.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

There is a restlessness about Mr Harrod's mystery now. It seems certain that something is going to happen sooner or later. Something is going to be found, someone is going to talk, someone is going to be charged. If I were involved, I would be thinking very deeply about my options. This is not going to go away.

I agree.

The first one to the Orange County DA is likely to be the one person who will be given some leniency. If the OC Cold Case squad has to build a case from scratch, there will be no leniency offered to anyone involved.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

That letter...all I can say is WOW!!

Like I said in another of Bob's threads...if my dad was generous enough to include me in a trust I wouldn't be questioning him and contacting lawyers about getting copies of documents and cutting my own father off. Instead I would be like "wow, thanks Dad."

That family is guilty as sin to me. Poor Bob.

I visited with a friend yesterday whose daughter is getting married soon. We were gently laughing about his daughter's vehement determination to make that wedding the "happiest day of her life" because we are both old enough to know that if you make a happy marriage, you'll have many days that are way happier than the wedding day. If only because you won't be exhausted, paying attention to a couple hundred people and wearing high heels!

She has to learn that for herself, obviously. Doesn't keep the old fogeys from chuckling over it a bit.

The same thing should have been true for Bob in his marriage to Fontelle. It is horrible that their wedding day was probably the last truly happy day of Bob's life. After that, it was missing Fontelle, defending himself from his daughters and disappearing.

 

[believe09]

That letter...all I can say is WOW!!

Like I said in another of Bob's threads...if my dad was generous enough to include me in a trust I wouldn't be questioning him and contacting lawyers about getting copies of documents and cutting my own father off. Instead I would be like "wow, thanks Dad."

That family is guilty as sin to me. Poor Bob.

Another reason why I brought the letter up was that it showed, at least to me, a pretty specific understanding of Bob and Georgia's assets.

 

[zwiebel]

Another reason why I brought the letter up was that it showed, at least to me, a pretty specific understanding of Bob and Georgia's assets.

Which brings up the question of questionable behaviour yet again, in my opinion. Why say you didn't have any idea about something, if indeed you did?

 

[zwiebel]

All the boat docks in the city are pretty jammed. Most of the ones I have been to also have people living in their boats mixed in with pleasure boats. It is also quite a community and people ask you where you are going, what are you doing, etc.

I just don't see them walking up to a charter, asking to rent it, smuggling Bob on (would take two people to carry) all without being seen. Most of the time you can't park closer than 100 feet to the boat. My friend's slip was at least 100 yards from the parking area. The harbor master kept track of who left the harbor and when they returned. Even if it is your private boat I think it would be a huge risk.

Personally, I don't think I would do it that way. In Placentia, if you head due east (IIRC) you are in sparsely populated area within 15 minutes. Who would head the other way with a body in the car, driving through a mega city that is famous for congestion for at least an hour (possibly 3) to get to the ocean?

Another important factor is WHEN would this have happened? If we trust the 10am phone confirmation of Bob life, and the 12 ish arrival of the CL, that is 2 hours where Bob has to be killed and hidden. He would have had to be put somewhere on the property or nearby by JeM and retrieved later. I don't think he would have been kept in the house (because I think the dogs didn't pick up any thing in there, right?)

JMO--- I do respect other points of view though so keep them coming.

deca, thank you so much for the local info - that's what's so badly needed and so useful here. For me especially, being so far away.

 

[believe09]

I cant decide if Bob's family, at least some of them, spend time on self reflection or not. In many ways, they seem to be some pretty impulsive people. In their heads, out their mouths, kwim?

It has to be hard when you have made so many statements and a little fact checking causes them to come back and bite you.

For example-Dad didnt drive on the highway.

Yeah, he did.

For example- I am a lover of animals who is a vegetarian, but I eat chicken, fish and love to watch the coyotes dig up the gophers and throw them into the air before they kill them. I also pressure wash protected birds off my house.

For example- I had no idea what dad was worth but I accepted loans and vehicles and knew of homes that were purchased to house family members.

Sigh.

 

[deca]

Placentia, CA to Newport Beach, CA Newport Bay - CA coast
27 min. In six o'clock pm traffic.

http://newportbeachboatrentals.com/oceanrentals.html
Boat rentals

I am sure it takes 27 minutes on a regular day with no accidents and I have probably driven that fast a few times. But personally I have taken 3 hours to move that distance in LA traffic if there is an accident. Driving around LA I have found estimates of travel to be very off. JMO

So I am not saying that this "ocean memorial" isn't possible, it just there are a lot of risk factors: 1) driving a long distance with a body 2) moving body onto a boat when there are a lot of potential witnesses around the docks and in the apartments around the docks 3)renting a boat and having to sign for it 4) hoping the body does not wash ashore quickly

Density of population and accessibility to the coastline in SoCal basically makes this an extremely risky.

I feel weird saying this and I hope you don't think I am crazy or anything but if I murdered someone in the heat of the moment (or with only a day or two to plan) I would want to get the body off my hands as quickly as possible and with the least amount of exposure to potential witnesses.

I would be worried about saving my own hide and getting rid of the body ASAP!

Also, replacing a toilet is a fairly easy proposition- the tub is much more complicated and would require a lot more skill and perhaps even tilework. Much harder to do that without making it look like it was *just* replaced.

 

[zwiebel]

I cant decide if Bob's family, at least some of them, spend time on self reflection or not. In many ways, they seem to be some pretty impulsive people. In their heads, out their mouths, kwim?

It has to be hard when you have made so many statements and a little fact checking causes them to come back and bite you.

For example-Dad didnt drive on the highway.

Yeah, he did.

For example- I am a lover of animals who is a vegetarian, but I eat chicken, fish and love to watch the coyotes dig up the gophers and throw them into the air before they kill them. I also pressure wash protected birds off my house.

For example- I had no idea what dad was worth but I accepted loans and vehicles and knew of homes that were purchased to house family members.

Sigh.

Don't forget the one about Bob never ever drinking, even on social occasions. Yet in the pic at this link, I could swear that's a champagne glass in his hand:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013...ssing-placentia-mans-wife-suspects-foul-play/

 

[Cubby]

Springing off your post, Grainne Dhu- I find that predatory psychics are successful in snaring families because families dont want to leave any stone unturned. It is the whole "What if..." Imagine if you declined the services of a psychic and it might have been a game changer....it gets inside of your head.

Most LE accept the tips because it is their job to investigate leads. At least this is in my experience.

I wish desperately that it was a crime for predatory psychics to defraud families of the missing, but I will table that soapbox for another day.

Any media is good media when it comes to the missing-this is one of the first cases I have seen where family is actively trying to squash it. jmvho.

BBM. While we are on the topic of squashing media, I suspect that occured on the AMW website. Originally it read police had ruled out a stranger abduction. During the period we discussed that rule out by LE, it was changed to police don't know what happened. I highly suspect AMW was harrased by the family until that change was made.

I wonder what Larry Montgomery thinks of the family squashing of media and the public threats they have made to those searching for answers into Bob's disappearance. I hope that is not a stone he overlooks.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I feel weird saying this and I hope you don't think I am crazy or anything but if I murdered someone in the heat of the moment (or with only a day or two to plan) I would want to get the body off my hands as quickly as possible and with the least amount of exposure to potential witnesses.

I would be worried about saving my own hide and getting rid of the body ASAP!

Also, replacing a toilet is a fairly easy proposition- the tub is much more complicated and would require a lot more skill and perhaps even tilework. Much harder to do that without making it look like it was *just* replaced.

SBM

I agree about the probable urge of the perpetrator to hide the body. I have a theory based on many years of reading about true crime that for many perps, hiding the body almost cancels out the murder, makes it like it never happened. So long as no one can see the body, no one will know what happened.

I don't think it is reasoned out, I think it is irrational and maybe almost to the level of instinct.

I just remembered another thing that would have made replacing the bathtub a difficult task: the staircase in Bob's house had a chairlift installed on it for Georgia's use. So not only would a bathtub have to be moved up those stairs, the stairs would be narrower than usual.

 

[Cubby]

Yep, the hoarder mentality, dictating what and how he should spend their inheritance etc.

I am stuck on their preplan to not lose a penny of their inheritance, get rid of Fontelle, burial at sea or scattering ashes (shudder) with mom after Dad unfortunately did not die along with Mom and messed everything up by trying to keep living past 80! I think no matter how he died, they put him there... in a twisted psychotic way to feel some peace that he lived a full life and will forever be with their mom as they always felt he should be.

They aren't looking because they know exactly where he is. All of them. Although I suspect one ringleader. I'm sure the threat of anyone talking and zero inheritance shut them all up. They have probably "healed" together, lied to themselves about what was necessary and the only unexpected glitch was that Fontelle didn't go home. Thankfully. I hope , LE has done due diligence into this and only need DNA, blood, remains to prove it. Also, I hope Bob is haunting them all.

I agree 100%. The only thing I'd add is another unexpected glitch as the housekeeper showed up on Monday, instead of her regular day of Tuesday.

I've always thought the plan was for the housekeeper to find him 'missing' on Tuesday and no one would have ever admitted JeM was doing 'odd jobs' around the house on Monday.

Thank God there is a witness that places JeM at the home the day of Bob's disappearance.

 

[sreshowtime]

^interesting theory there Cubby...kind of an ole wrench in the plan thang...boy that sure could of made things get wacky huh

 

[Cubby]

I agree that Bob didn't drive himself that day. Sadly, I think he was no longer capable of driving when he left his home the day he went missing.

That he didn't like to drive on the freeway was something one or more of his daughters told the PPD. But when the PPD started investigating Bob's disappearance, they found that Bob actually visited friends whose residence was located such that the only way to get there was to get on the freeway.

I am inclined to think that Bob, as a long time southern California resident, probably had a normal amount of confidence about freeway driving.

His daughters have made a number of assertions about Bob that sources outside the family have contradicted. Either they didn't know him very well and/or they have a reason to want to spin a certain narrative about Bob.

BBM.
I don't believe Bob was conscious when he was removed from his home the day of his disappearance.

 

[Cubby]

There is a restlessness about Mr Harrod's mystery now. It seems certain that something is going to happen sooner or later. Something is going to be found, someone is going to talk, someone is going to be charged. If I were involved, I would be thinking very deeply about my options. This is not going to go away.

:goodpost:

 

[Cubby]

I think these two quotes from Long Lost Love are quite relevant to the housekeeper's role. The last shows how she could easily have exploited Bob, and chose not to. I believe family were aware of this and trusted her.

Narrator: 'Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn't tell Jeff that she would be coming that day.'

Agnes: 'He was telling me that he just had no desire to go nowhere and he doesn't like to be alone. He wanted to have a relationship and actually he wanted somebody younger because he didn't want somebody to die on him.'

ETA - first quote is referring to son-in-law, second to Bob.

And let's not forget Jeff's reply to Agnes when she told him Bob was not answering the door.

Agnes: Bob was always home when I went over there or if him and Georgia- they would always, always tell me if they would not be home and they put a key in the mailbox. But, it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away- do you know where Bob is because he's not answering the door and Jeff was just asking me, "Are you supposed to be here today?" I said, "Yeah, Bob knew I was coming today."

I've always found it odd that Jeff's first question after being notified Bob was not answering the door was if Agnes was supposed to be there. That reaction from Jeff speaks volumes.

 

[sreshowtime]

kid with a hand in the cookie jar

 

[zwiebel]

One of Bob's daughters (or someone claiming to be) said that the bathroom repairs were only to fix a leaking shower. Wouldn't having that information make her a very important witness, along with Mrs Harrod who says the bathroom was damaged when she returned?

Did daughter know for a fact a leaking shower was the only thing wrong with the bathroom, or was this something she was told - and if so, couldn't it also be very important who told her that? And when? For example, if it was son-in-law who told her that, but police believe much bigger repairs were carried out.....

It would be strange if Mrs Harrod agrees with daughter and has told police that the only thing wrong with the bathroom was a leaking shower. Two witnesses with no love lost between them but corroborating each other's stories would carry some weight, I would think.