CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[SuziQ]

And didn't that tub turn out to be quite important? I seem to recall the prosecutor pointing out that it simply didn't have any of the sharp edges that could have caused a head wound like Kathleen's - and that it would have been pretty impossible for her to have fallen into the position she was found in, with a tub shaped the way it was.

And didn't he forget a tiny detail too, that a sharp-eyed neighbour noticed? No towel in the bathroom? It's sometimes the small things that accumulate and trip suspects up in the end.

Yes!!!

 

[believe09]

This is why it is so important to get as much as you can on record...it is those little details that later on cant be explained away by those on the record statements, or werent explained away.

JM was interviewed 2 or 3 times right? That must be why there were multiple choice responses regarding where Bob might have gone....important to cover all of the bases and be as helpful as possible.

 

[zwiebel]

I've memorized some;

Bob felt unwell
Bob went to see a neighbour
Bob took a walk

The 'felt unwell' one gets me. He wandered off because he was sick, and it didn't occur to his son-in-law to go after him, or call emergency? Not even by 9pm at night? Or stay in the house just to make sure he came home okay?

I presume wife JuM was home looking after the dogs, and I believe son-in-law didn't have a job he had to go to at the time, so it just makes no sense he would just up and leave Bob 'out there'. Unwell. Somewhere.

 

[zwiebel]

Why would someone leave their home if they felt unwell? Doesn't the opposite usually happen?

 

[zwiebel]

I'm always checking missing persons info for Orange County, to see if Bob is listed, or anyone has been found. Today it led me to this poor young lady, Samantha Clarke, who disappeared three years ago from Orange Town, OC:
http://www.nbc29.com/story/13559737/samantha-clarke-still-missing-10-weeks-later

That led me to this man, Randy Taylor, complaining in this article of the 'ridiculous' harassment he has undergone at the hands of the police. I thought that seemed a little intolerant and self-centred, seeing as a young woman was missing and he was one of the last people to speak to her.
http://www.readthehook.com/108360/l...amily-mourns-suspect-claims-police-harassment

Which eventually led me to this missing young lady, Alexis Murphy.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...77256579.91039.212865135400495&type=1&theater

And what do you know? There is Taylor again, this time charged with Alexis' abduction. Like Samantha, she has still not been found. And it looks like OC LE have become very interested in Taylor again - if indeed they had ever lost interest in the first place. I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I hope these two young ladies can be brought home very soon. They can't be just left out there.

It has made me think that (no offence) LE must be a bit of nightmare for wrongdoers in OC. Everything goes quiet, guilty parties start to breathe easily at last, and then....zap! Up pop people like Larry Montgomery, who is just as bad as the most cricket-obsessed Englishman, except he's obsessed with solving crimes! Nightmare.
Or there is Detective Loomis; a year or two back, hedging about exactly how cool Bob's case was, suddenly appearing on the news with the blunt, ominous statement, "That doesn't mean that we are done." Nightmare.

Imagine being the person who disappeared Bob - you would just want to shout at the TV, "What! What do you mean, you're not done! What are you doing?!"
Not that it would do any good. I doubt there will be any advance warning, if and when an arrest is made.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I've memorized some;

Bob felt unwell
Bob went to see a neighbour
Bob took a walk

The 'felt unwell' one gets me. He wandered off because he was sick, and it didn't occur to his son-in-law to go after him, or call emergency? Not even by 9pm at night? Or stay in the house just to make sure he came home okay?

I presume wife JuM was home looking after the dogs, and I believe son-in-law didn't have a job he had to go to at the time, so it just makes no sense he would just up and leave Bob 'out there'. Unwell. Somewhere.

BBM

Sometimes when people lie, the truth tends to leak out in ways they aren't really aware of when they make the statement. A fairly common example is when one child accuses another child of hiding a possession and goes to Mom. Mom says "where did you hide the toy car?" and the guilty sibling says "not in the basement!" without realising they are admitting to having hidden the toy car.

The speculation that the reason Bob was not there to let the CL in because he felt unwell may have been the truth leaking out. Someone whose body has been dumped is definitely not going to be feeling well.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

My thoughts on the keys-for 10 years there was a routine. Either Bob/Georgia were at the house or there was a key left in the mailbox.

Seriously, what are the odds that there was no key left in the mailbox on that specific day. I mean, another epic coincidence, right?
There seems to be a few of this coincidences that occurred that morning.

My vote is that Bob hadn't gone out and didn't expect to leave the house that morning. Depending on the real time of the around 10AM phone call, it may have been too early to transact business anyway.

One of my out of the box theories. I wondered if perhaps bob was leaving and got his wallet and keys and went to leave, but didn't have time to put the key in the box, because he was taken soon after exiting his door that morning.

If we new for sure that the KEY was found, or not, could help things.

But i wondered outside the box, if someone had intent on forcing bob to go to a bank or somewhere to withdraw,acquire a large sum of cash? And for one reason or the other those plans failed to materialize. Whom would know, bob had alot of money saved? The daughters seemed not to know according to them, until after the wife died.

Of course if one believes he was killed inside the house, than the above goes against that belief. So I posted it for others to contemplate.

add on...I know for the most part what the CL said has been taken as scripture. I am not there yet. But will move on when I do.

So the out of the box that the cl showed up with someone that morning and the driver took bob to make him take out cash but took him before he could leave a key in the mailbox, which made the cl set outside on the porch swing i believe it was. She changed the day to Monday instead of Tuesday because Monday was the day before the new wife moved in i believe but not certain that is correct. That SUV that J spotted, could that had been the cl and her accomplish driving up and down the street waiting to see if bob was home, and seeing if J was going to leave. She knew J would be coming by, she said that herself.

The above nothing more than speculation and assumptions. Nothing posted as being fact. Just an outside the box theory.

And as far as she appearing on the id show. Well, pretty slim attractive blonde, with an opportunity to be seen my millions nationally on TV. Why not?

WAIT........She said bob told her Jeff was coming by, But Bob FAILED to tell Jeff SHE was coming by?? IF bob was not expecting the cl until tuesday, than her showing up was a surprise to him to. Could explain why there was no key in the box.

 

[believe09]

There were no withdrawals on that day or subsequent days, Mr TT, according to LE. No bank or credit card activity.

And as far as she appearing on the id show. Well, pretty slim attractive blonde, with an opportinuty to be seen my millions nationally on TV. Why not?

I dont understand this at all. Sorry if I am missing something.

I think there are all kinds of out of the box theories, but there are a myriad of facts here that can be utilized as well. CL is a material witness and CL was allowed and clearly wanted to participate in Disappeared. It is clear that the other person in that house, at least the one we know about, chose not to participate.

 

[believe09]

BBM

Sometimes when people lie, the truth tends to leak out in ways they aren't really aware of when they make the statement. A fairly common example is when one child accuses another child of hiding a possession and goes to Mom. Mom says "where did you hide the toy car?" and the guilty sibling says "not in the basement!" without realising they are admitting to having hidden the toy car.

The speculation that the reason Bob was not there to let the CL in because he felt unwell may have been the truth leaking out. Someone whose body has been dumped is definitely not going to be feeling well.

The minute I heard the "unwell" statement as related by LE, I thought of this too Grainne Dhu. It does seem like some of the information that has been related might actually have shades of some possible truths.

Like, was there an SUV and whose was it actually? Was there a call made by PB and did she speak with someone and heard someone else in the background? Did JuM have the closest timeline to the truth when she relates that her father had disappeared by 10AM that morning?

 

[believe09]

I'm always checking missing persons info for Orange County, to see if Bob is listed, or anyone has been found. Today it led me to this poor young lady, Samantha Clarke, who disappeared three years ago from Orange Town, OC:
http://www.nbc29.com/story/13559737/samantha-clarke-still-missing-10-weeks-later

That led me to this man, Randy Taylor, complaining in this article of the 'ridiculous' harassment he has undergone at the hands of the police. I thought that seemed a little intolerant and self-centred, seeing as a young woman was missing and he was one of the last people to speak to her.
http://www.readthehook.com/108360/l...amily-mourns-suspect-claims-police-harassment

Which eventually led me to this missing young lady, Alexis Murphy.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...77256579.91039.212865135400495&type=1&theater

And what do you know? There is Taylor again, this time charged with Alexis' abduction. Like Samantha, she has still not been found. And it looks like OC LE have become very interested in Taylor again - if indeed they had ever lost interest in the first place. I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I hope these two young ladies can be brought home very soon. They can't be just left out there.

It has made me think that (no offence) LE must be a bit of nightmare for wrongdoers in OC. Everything goes quiet, guilty parties start to breathe easily at last, and then....zap! Up pop people like Larry Montgomery, who is just as bad as the most cricket-obsessed Englishman, except he's obsessed with solving crimes! Nightmare.
Or there is Detective Loomis; a year or two back, hedging about exactly how cool Bob's case was, suddenly appearing on the news with the blunt, ominous statement, "That doesn't mean that we are done." Nightmare.

Imagine being the person who disappeared Bob - you would just want to shout at the TV, "What! What do you mean, you're not done! What are you doing?!"
Not that it would do any good. I doubt there will be any advance warning, if and when an arrest is made.

BBM. I think this is true. I think it is worth considering what bringing in the Cold Case Unit can mean. Let's face it, OC is not going to waste resources on a case that just cant be solved. Especially in cash strapped CA. So this is a case that is solveable. This is a case that is worthy of that time and attention. PPD and OC are pulling out the stops because there is a belief that this will be solved and that some kind of justice will be served.

I would love to see that white board. I would love to see the phone records and bank statements, and ping records and GPS records and all of the stuff in that file. I would love to know the holdback information.

I hope and pray that this road leads to Bob being brought home. Poor Bob.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

There were no withdrawals on that day or subsequent days, Mr TT, according to LE. No bank or credit card activity.



I dont understand this at all. Sorry if I am missing something.

I think there are all kinds of out of the box theories, but there are a myriad of facts here that can be utilized as well. CL is a material witness and CL was allowed and clearly wanted to participate in Disappeared. It is clear that the other person in that house, at least the one we know about, chose not to participate.

Yes, I knew that. No money was removed or any activity. Something happened to prevent that.

I just cant see them killing the father so the new wife could not sign on the dotted line, bank accounts, the house etc etc. I kept hearing about the trust fund trust fund, What would have been the caytalist to cause this, what was the straw that broke the camels back, that made them to decide to kill there father the next morning............We have one of two choices, J or the Cl as far as being involved.

 

[believe09]

In the interim there are BOLO's being responded to. Just because you dont see public statements about them doesnt mean that there isnt activity. At least in my experience. The quietest times are often those when the most effort is being expended.

 

[believe09]

Hmm-several million dollars isnt enough incentive for you? There is a lot of backstory here, Mr TT. It is worth digging into. And I dont believe there are just two choices here unfortunately. But that is jmo.

5 people benefit financially from the murder of Bob Harrod. None of them are Mrs Harrod or the CL.

 

[believe09]

Moving on a little-I do think we might have teased out some evidence that there is some kind of conspiracy here, even if it is just obstruction of some kind?

My position all along has been that the SUV and the phone call from PB were phantom. The time line offered by PPD doesnt include either, so that was my cue to believe that they werent considered to be substantiated in any way.

But if we re look at some of this stuff with the lens that there might be grains of truth, where does that lead us I wonder??

 

[Grainne Dhu]

But i wondered outside the box, if someone had intent on forcing bob to go to a bank or somewhere to withdraw,acquire a large sum of cash? And for one reason or the other those plans failed to materialize. Whom would know, bob had alot of money saved? The daughters seemed not to know according to them, until after the wife died.

SBM

It really strains credulity when the daughters try to pretend they had no idea what Bob was worth. If I recall correctly, he had bought houses for each of his daughters plus his grandson.

Yes, he did hold mortgages or charge rent but he did have the financial resources to buy those homes in the first place. In one of the most expensive real estate markets in the US.

They may not have known to within a couple thousand what Bob was worth but they had to have known he had plenty of money long before Georgia died. I can't believe they didn't have a fairly good idea of how much money Bob had invested in real estate for THEM.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Moving on a little-I do think we might have teased out some evidence that there is some kind of conspiracy here, even if it is just obstruction of some kind?

My position all along has been that the SUV and the phone call from PB were phantom. The time line offered by PPD doesnt include either, so that was my cue to believe that they werent considered to be substantiated in any way.

But if we re look at some of this stuff with the lens that there might be grains of truth, where does that lead us I wonder??

Well, if I were planning to make someone disappear I certainly would not use my own vehicle to do so. I'd either borrow a car from a frienemy or I'd rent a vehicle. From a rental place in a different town than the one I lived in or that my proposed victim lived in.

I'd love to have the credit card records of all 5 leading suspects in the case; my hunch is that there is at least one person and probably more than one person whose credit card transactions would be interesting.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I was talking to one of my nephews this evening and asked him for ideas about groups that are likely to be found in wilderness areas besides dog walkers, hikers, hunters or geocachers. He came up with people who play paintball.

He said that the equipment is moderately expensive but can often be rented cheaply. I had previously had the impression that it was a sport that was played in well defined areas but according to my nephew, there are more and more people who are going out to wilderness areas because they enjoy a less predictable and controlled environment.

Someone may already have had this idea while I was absent from WS but I thought it was worth bringing up. He said the best places to reach such groups is through sporting goods stores that sell paintballs.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, I knew that. No money was removed or any activity. Something happened to prevent that.

I just cant see them killing the father so the new wife could not sign on the dotted line, bank accounts, the house etc etc. I kept hearing about the trust fund trust fund, What would have been the caytalist to cause this, what was the straw that broke the camels back, that made them to decide to kill there father the next morning............We have one of two choices, J or the Cl as far as being involved.

It is pretty clear from the letter sent to Bob's lawyer in the weeks preceding his disappearance that at least one daughter was under the misapprehension that Bob somehow no longer really owned his own assets, that they were all owned by the bypass trust and would therefore be kept intact until Bob's death when they would be distributed to his heirs.

Which is sort of true, in that whatever was left of his assets would go into the bypass trust at his death. But until his death, he could use them as he pleased. Even if his pleasure included showering a new wife with expensive trinkets, travel, real estate or who knows what. After all, Bob had quite the history of buying real estate for the ones he loved (his daughters and grandson) so who would be more aware of the possibility he might decide to do the same thing for the new Mrs Harrod?

The TV clips before Bob disappeared seem to me to show a man who had a new lease on life, a new reason to live because he'd fallen in love again with his first sweetheart. Which is just the sort of mood where a person might be inspired to make extravagant gifts to one's new love.

These are the same daughters who have posted to various places on the internet that their father's "god" was money, that he was unreasonably cheap, that he was too cheap to provide adequate care for Georgia Harrod in her final months (which was rebutted by his friend and former neighbour) and impugning his choices in matters as picayune as the brand of TV dinner he chose to buy.

They were also quick to brand Fontelle as a gold digger and even to imply she was lying about her previous relationship with Bob! Which was contradicted when one of the daughters said that at her father's request she had tried to find Fontelle about 5 months before Fontelle found Bob.

Seems to me that there is overwhelming evidence that money weighed heavily on those daughters' minds.

And that they seem to be unaware that once something is on the internet, there's a pretty good chance it will never disappear. Reality bites.

 

[zwiebel]

You're right Grainne, they're out there.
http://www.socalpaintballing.com/

http://www.socalpaintballing.com/fields.php

 

[zwiebel]

There are complicated looking grid views on the FB page - I can't understand them at all!

https://www.facebook.com/pages/LAST-STAND-SoCal-Paintball-Team/142687745829684