CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #18

[Snoop Sister]

Hi Cubby, you have amazing work on Bob's disappearance for several years. Kudos!

The trust took a huge loss in that foreclosure, did it not?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Well, I've spotted an unlinkable and unverified suggestion that Father's Day was marked 'privately' for Mr Harrod.

The wisdom of that, if true, is a little questionable to me. When a father and grandfather has been missing for nearly five years and his case has just about dropped out of sight in the media, any chance for publicity should be grabbed with both hands, in my opinion.

The posts on this thread has certainly slowed down as well. I think we need more publicity for Bob's case again and renewed interest.

 

[zwiebel]

I thought I had read in the beginning threads that Bob's car keys were missing but his house key was found still in the house the day he went missing. I have tried to find that post and can't and it is not in the copious notes that I have made. Does any one remember that post or am I imaging things?

Also, I have tried to buy the Disappearance episode and I can't as it is not available in Canada. Anyway, I am hurrying to get caught up...almost through thread 10.

As far as I can recollect, the keys are yet another mystery.
From police statements to media - Bob's wallet and keys were gone.

But son in law managed to get in when he returned from his shopping trip - why would Bob have given him keys, if he intended to be in? And Bob's friend said he always kept the doors locked, even when he was in.

Grandson AH collected keys from a neighbour, that night, according to the LE report.

Next morning, Bob's daughters managed to get in.

 

[Jennibee]

Everytime I think about Bob I feel so upset. Whatever happened to him, I hope it was over quickly.

 

[cloudajo]

From Probate Notes. I changed names to initials and bolded some text.

PROBATE EXAMINERS NOTES
REGARDING CASE: 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-CJC
HARROD - CONSERVATORSHIP

PER MINUTE ORDER OF 07/23/14, CONTINUED TO 08/20/14 AT 1:30PM IN C03 CO-CONSERVATOR RB AND ATTORNEY IS ARE ORDERED TO RETURN UNLESS MATTER IS RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL. (APPEARANCES=NONE)

IF APPROVED - SHOULD BE APPROVED AS SUPPLEMENTED, FILED ON 07/22/14.

COURT MAY REQUIRE PERSONS WITH PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF FACTS ALLEGED TO APPEAR AND TESTIFY.

DATE/TIME OF DEATH: 07/27/09.

PLACE OF DEATH: PLACENTIA, CA - SOMETIME AFTER 12:00 PM.

COURT TO DETERMINE SUFFICIENCY OF FACTS AND DOCUMENTS FILED ATTACHED TO SUPPLEMENT FILED ON 07/22/14.

[snipped]

https://cfapps.occourts.org/directory/probate/probate-notes.cfm

 

[cloudajo]

I wonder if JeM will be called to testify. This is how I picture it...

Court: The day your father-in-law went missing, you saw a black Chevrolet Tahoe drive slowly past Bob’s house a few times over a 10 minute period, and then you saw it pull over on the wrong side of the street. You finished up your handyman work for the day and left a note for Bob telling him you’d be back the next day to finish the repairs.

The day after your father-in-law went missing, your wife called the local hospitals and coroner’s office before she went down the hill to get the house ready, linens changed for Bob and his new wife. Can you tell us why you didn’t go with your wife to Bob’s house?

JeM: I didn’t go back to Bob’s house because he wasn’t answering the phone.

 

[Snoop Sister]

From Probate Notes. I changed names to initials and bolded some text.

PROBATE EXAMINERS NOTES
REGARDING CASE: 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-CJC
HARROD - CONSERVATORSHIP

PER MINUTE ORDER OF 07/23/14, CONTINUED TO 08/20/14 AT 1:30PM IN C03 CO-CONSERVATOR RB AND ATTORNEY IS ARE ORDERED TO RETURN UNLESS MATTER IS RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL. (APPEARANCES=NONE)

IF APPROVED - SHOULD BE APPROVED AS SUPPLEMENTED, FILED ON 07/22/14.

COURT MAY REQUIRE PERSONS WITH PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF FACTS ALLEGED TO APPEAR AND TESTIFY.

DATE/TIME OF DEATH: 07/27/09.

PLACE OF DEATH: PLACENTIA, CA - SOMETIME AFTER 12:00 PM.

COURT TO DETERMINE SUFFICIENCY OF FACTS AND DOCUMENTS FILED ATTACHED TO SUPPLEMENT FILED ON 07/22/14.

[snipped]

https://cfapps.occourts.org/directory/probate/probate-notes.cfm

So sad!!

 

[Angelo]

from probate notes. I changed names to initials and bolded some text.

probate examiners notes
regarding case: 30-2009-00291267-pr-ce-cjc
harrod - conservatorship

per minute order of 07/23/14, continued to 08/20/14 at 1:30pm in c03 co-conservator rb and attorney is are ordered to return unless matter is recommended for approval. (appearances=none)

if approved - should be approved as supplemented, filed on 07/22/14.

court may require persons with personal knowledge of facts alleged to appear and testify.

date/time of death: 07/27/09.

place of death: Placentia, ca - sometime after 12:00 pm.

court to determine sufficiency of facts and documents filed attached to supplement filed on 07/22/14.

[snipped]

https://cfapps.occourts.org/directory/probate/probate-notes.cfm

date/time of death: 07/27/09.

place of death: Placentia, ca - sometime after 12:00 pm.

 

[Opie]

Oh, I DO look forward to reading testimony from "persons with personal knowledge of facts." Not saying I'll believe it any more than some of what we've been given already, but it will be interesting to read.

 

[believe09]

Hi all-someone very dear to me experienced a death in the family and I have been offline for the most part. It has given me a chance to reflect on these last 5 years and to have watched the passion and effort leach away with a few exceptions. Mrs Harrod still waits for someone to be put into handcuffs and someone to return her husband I am sure. And we continue to wait, digest these new filings and discuss.

There is resounding silence everywhere else. Every where. From a group of people who have always lived their lives online. And continue to-good to know about JuM's weightloss. Completely inappropriate given her father's murder. I assume they are conceding the homicide part since the family is looking for a death cert that includes a DOD and TOD on the day SIL was making his "home repairs."

Disgusting.

As for the home loan forgiveness-that was an immense asset to the estate. The mortgage payment alone, given Bob's careful handling of his money, would have gone a long way towards growing the trusts. I am sure the interest rate was a nice return for the trusts.

I maintain an opinion that looking at the number of times AH and his wife refinanced and re reading his deposition to see how he forgot where he put the 6 figures he netted from all of it (jmo) is quite curious. Re read it, my friends. What kind of responsible adult doesn't recall bank accounts where he has placed assets? Let's get down to brass tacks-he stopped paying his mortgage days after his gf disappeared. Days. There was a rush on the trusts within days-they told Mrs Harrod that she was going to be thrown out onto the street on the advice of an attorney. 3.days.after.he.disappeared.

Three days.

I fear the only justice Bob will see will be in a civil court. Those depositions and that testimony will be something to see. That is where the rubber will meet the road for these folks. That is where they should be afraid. The threshold is much much much lower than in a criminal trial. Perhaps, like Nicole Brown Simpson, there will be some kind of right to this very wrong that was done. The death certificate is not the end to this story.

 

[believe09]

COURT MAY REQUIRE PERSONS WITH PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF FACTS ALLEGED TO APPEAR AND TESTIFY.

DATE/TIME OF DEATH: 07/27/09.

PLACE OF DEATH: PLACENTIA, CA - SOMETIME AFTER 12:00 PM.

Apparently he died in Placentia. At least, that is what the daughters are alleging.

Huh.

 

[believe09]

[/B]

BBM That has always been my thought. AH and his wife appeared to be the only family members who actually cared about Bob and we know that his grandfather treated him quite well. I wouldn't be surprised if the sisters were quite bitter about that. AH is a bright guy and I think he quickly assessed the situation between his grandfather and the 3 sisters following the hostile meeting. He did mention to LE that there had been an argument at the family meeting when they came over to do the welfare check. I'll bet he caught holy heck from the family for saying that. I think the mortgage money was the price he set for his silence. I have always hoped that his wife would crack under pressure and talk to LE about what happened.

Agreed. Hands down he has apparently financially benefitted the most from his grandfather's disappearance. He stopped paying his mortgage immediately, which raised his monthly income by thousands of dollars, he defaulted on his mortgage and yet managed to obtain a jumbo loan from a company for a home in Yorba Linda with a miniscule down payment...years after not paying on his mortgage debt to his grandfather. Who was missing, not dead as he alleged in his deposition. It is abundantly clear that his loan was forgiven by his aunts which effectively changed the management of the trusts....which they aren't permitted to do. At least that is my probate law 101 understanding of their position regarding their FATHER'S assets.

So I concur, he is a bright guy. He is either remarkably naïve in his statement to LE regarding family fighting or remarkably savvy to throw his father under the bus. Just my thoughts off of the top of my head, fwiw.

 

[travelbug]

Hi all-someone very dear to me experienced a death in the family and I have been offline for the most part. It has given me a chance to reflect on these last 5 years and to have watched the passion and effort leach away with a few exceptions. Mrs Harrod still waits for someone to be put into handcuffs and someone to return her husband I am sure. And we continue to wait, digest these new filings and discuss.

There is resounding silence everywhere else. Every where. From a group of people who have always lived their lives online. And continue to-good to know about JuM's weightloss. Completely inappropriate given her father's murder. I assume they are conceding the homicide part since the family is looking for a death cert that includes a DOD and TOD on the day SIL was making his "home repairs."

Disgusting.

As for the home loan forgiveness-that was an immense asset to the estate. The mortgage payment alone, given Bob's careful handling of his money, would have gone a long way towards growing the trusts. I am sure the interest rate was a nice return for the trusts.

I maintain an opinion that looking at the number of times AH and his wife refinanced and re reading his deposition to see how he forgot where he put the 6 figures he netted from all of it (jmo) is quite curious. Re read it, my friends. What kind of responsible adult doesn't recall bank accounts where he has placed assets? Let's get down to brass tacks-he stopped paying his mortgage days after his gf disappeared. Days. There was a rush on the trusts within days-they told Mrs Harrod that she was going to be thrown out onto the street on the advice of an attorney. 3.days.after.he.disappeared.

Three days.

I fear the only justice Bob will see will be in a civil court. Those depositions and that testimony will be something to see. That is where the rubber will meet the road for these folks. That is where they should be afraid. The threshold is much much much lower than in a criminal trial. Perhaps, like Nicole Brown Simpson, there will be some kind of right to this very wrong that was done. The death certificate is not the end to this story.

BBM I hope you are wrong and the OC Cold Case unit eventually prosecutes the guilty party(ies) for this crime, but I fear you are right. I definitely hope you are correct and some justice is meted out through civil court. FH deserves to receive all monies she is legally entitled to, including those squandered by Bob's greedy children. My concern is that she has neither the strength nor financial resources to hire aggressive legal counsel.

Like you, I noted both the time of death and location of death on the probate documents. That means someone will need to attest to those facts, therefore implying that Bob was not kidnapped, nor did he leave his neighborhood. Could that testimony prove beneficial to LE? The fact of the matter is that Bob would have been found by now had he succumbed, in his neighborhood, due to natural causes. I realize we are dealing with semantics, but perhaps LE is waiting for additional "sworn statements" to further their investigation. jmho

 

[believe09]

I think that sworn statements will ensure downfall. From the very first interview in this case to the last. AH is an excellent example. I mean look at his depo. PB, first born, is as well.

Truth doesn't change-and yet we have moving timelines, alterations to what clothing Bob was wearing, mysterious vehicles that didn't exist...it is crazieness.

Thank God for the cleaning lady. And how fortunate she was/is to still be able to make statements to LE. She clearly showed her emotion and regard for him in the Disappeared episode. It was nice to see someone other than Fontelle carrying the emotional load, kwim?

 

[suzyq211]

Thank God for the cleaning lady. And how fortunate she was/is to still be able to make statements to LE. She clearly showed her emotion and regard for him in the Disappeared episode. It was nice to see someone other than Fontelle carrying the emotional load, kwim?

<snipped>

Yes, since we never saw it anywhere else.

 

[travelbug]

Agreed. Hands down he has apparently financially benefitted the most from his grandfather's disappearance. He stopped paying his mortgage immediately, which raised his monthly income by thousands of dollars, he defaulted on his mortgage and yet managed to obtain a jumbo loan from a company for a home in Yorba Linda with a miniscule down payment...years after not paying on his mortgage debt to his grandfather. Who was missing, not dead as he alleged in his deposition. It is abundantly clear that his loan was forgiven by his aunts which effectively changed the management of the trusts....which they aren't permitted to do. At least that is my probate law 101 understanding of their position regarding their FATHER'S assets.

So I concur, he is a bright guy. He is either remarkably naïve in his statement to LE regarding family fighting or remarkably savvy to throw his father under the bus. Just my thoughts off of the top of my head, fwiw.

I'm not giving AH a free pass. I believe he manipulated Bob for his own benefit over a period of many years. It is particularly telling that he changed his name to RH, therefore providing legitimate cover for transacting business and executing documents under that name. What gives me pause is the fact that he would be least affected by the marriage between Bob and Fontelle. I can't perceive of FH expecting that Bob would alter his relationship with his beloved grandson. The daughters are another story altogether. If this case moves forward in criminal and/or civil court, I believe AH will be found guilty of malfeasance. That would not have been questioned had Bob passed in a natural manner. It is this investigation that has brought his activities to light. I think those members of the family who are responsible for Bob's demise sent AH to meet LE at Bob's door because he knew the least about what had occurred. IMHO this crime was the result of greed and hostility toward Bob. AH certainly was greedy, but I think he loved his grandfather. He always seemed to get what he wanted from Bob, so why kill the golden goose. I think the events of the morning were well orchestrated by a couple of the sisters and the SIL.

 

[believe09]

Until all of this went down, I am not sure he was aware that he would be receiving a minescule bequest from Bob and nothing else. The trust documents were filed with discovery. He was given 10K. The only grandchild, the one who lived the closest, the one who received a massive bailout by Bob. So if we take the daughters' word for it and the heated family meeting was about the wills/trusts, I would think that AH was apprised of this. There was no loan forgiveness included in the trusts.

10K

That's gotta hurt.

I'm not giving AH a free pass. I believe he manipulated Bob for his own benefit over a period of many years. It is particularly telling that he changed his name to RH, therefore providing legitimate cover for transacting business and executing documents under that name. What gives me pause is the fact that he would be least affected by the marriage between Bob and Fontelle. I can't perceive of FH expecting that Bob would alter his relationship with his beloved grandson. The daughters are another story altogether. If this case moves forward in criminal and/or civil court, I believe AH will be found guilty of malfeasance. That would not have been questioned had Bob passed in a natural manner. It is this investigation that has brought his activities to light. I think those members of the family who are responsible for Bob's demise sent AH to meet LE at Bob's door because he knew the least about what had occurred. IMHO this crime was the result of greed and hostility toward Bob. AH certainly was greedy, but I think he loved his grandfather. He always seemed to get what he wanted from Bob, so why kill the golden goose. I think the events of the morning were well orchestrated by a couple of the sisters and the SIL.

 

[believe09]

LE said that the motivation for the crime was the fight over the money. It seems reasonable to think that the only people fighting over the money would be the people who were named as beneficiaries. I agree with you that the idea of anyone killing the golden goose seems ludicrous, but if the gravy train was going to end or the pot was going to have to be shared by Mrs Harrod well the motivation strengthens perhaps.

As for AH and his affection-I hope he loved his grandfather. I really do. But it wasn't grandson and wife who were delivering meals to Bob after his wife Georgia died. Grandson didn't even have a key to Bob's house-isn't that strange? Trusted neighbor had one, none of the immediate relatives had one. Bob owned their homes as well-I am certain he had keys to theirs, but why not the reverse.

And speaking of keys....well we could go around and around.

I realize I am more acerbic than is customary for me, but after watching a devastated family shell shocked by the unexpected loss of a loved one, this disinterest in solving Bob's murder makes me angry. And very sad.

 

[believe09]

I will say this, fwiw-I don't know what happened that morning of course. Only Bob and the person(s) who killed him (assuming we are all agreeing to homicide now) know what went down. I think it is just as likely that this was a confrontation that got out of hand. Maybe there was shoving and yelling. Maybe a line was crossed and it seemed like it was better to bury it and bury him then to come clean. It's going to come out in some way. Especially with continued civil action. I mean there are only so many super secret agreements you can hand out in a situation like this....people will have to testify. Depositions are going to be taken and there wont be an option to dodge them or refuse them. Everyone is going to have to take the stand. I cant imagine the pressure it will put on the immediate family and the collateral damage to those who aren't directly involved. There are children on all sides of this extended family...how do you explain to them how Bob has been taken from their midst? Heartbreaking and maddening.

 

[zwiebel]

So family are saying in the trust proceedings that Bob died, in Placentia, sometime after 12 noon?

Conveniently, that turns the housekeeper into an alibi for son in law, as she's a witness he was in Bob's house from noon (with Bob already gone) until he left for Home Depot - and he has a receipt for that.

Exactly how can anyone maintain Bob died after 12noon though, when it's known he disappeared some time before that?

I suppose Paula's phone conversation with Bob is the crucial evidence being used here, to prove Bob was alive up until about 15 minutes before noon.