CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #18

[zwiebel]

I'm sure Bob will have had life insurance. I wonder if the insurance company will want to carry out their own investigation, before making any payout?

 

[Cubby]

So family are saying in the trust proceedings that Bob died, in Placentia, sometime after 12 noon?

Conveniently, that turns the housekeeper into an alibi for son in law, as she's a witness he was in Bob's house from noon (with Bob already gone) until he left for Home Depot - and he has a receipt for that.

Exactly how can anyone maintain Bob died after 12noon though, when it's known he disappeared some time before that?

I suppose Paula's phone conversation with Bob is the crucial evidence being used here, to prove Bob was alive up until about 15 minutes before noon.

Even if Bob was alive up until minutes before noon, it still does not explain where SIL was between 10am and the time the housekeeper showed up.

Honestly, adding a time to the date last seen when applying for a death certificate seems a bit over the top to me. It jumps out like that 'the day before he went missing in the afternoon'......... jumps out. Adding a time seems so...out of place. Like it's a last ditch attempt to try and make that target of a timeline appear credible.

But again, what's done is done.... there is no going back and cleaning some things up..... Time will tell......

 

[Cubby]

I'm sure Bob will have had life insurance. I wonder if the insurance company will want to carry out their own investigation, before making any payout?

I'd bet Bob did not have life insurance. He didn't like paying for LD. He had too much of his own money saved up to spend money on a monthly premium. He may have when his kids were young, but that was a long time ago.

 

[zwiebel]

If anybody wanted to object to Bob being declared dead, there's been some very creative ideas thrown out there on social media about where he might be, that might provide grounds. Especially as they appear to come from people with personal knowledge of Bob......

 

[zwiebel]

I'd bet Bob did not have life insurance. He didn't like paying for LD. He had too much of his own money saved up to spend money on a monthly premium. He may have when his kids were young, but that was a long time ago.

I did think of that, but then I wondered - isn't it often tied up with work benefits? And if you cash in early, don't you lose a lot, and have to pay much higher premiums if you want to get insured again, when you're older?

I don't think Bob would have worried about his middle aged children getting a payout if he died, but there is maybe a chance he'd rather have kept up a policy than cash it in and see money going down the drain?

Perhaps Fontelle would be entitled to it, as his wife. In which case, the conservators probably stopped making any payments from the estate, and let the policy lapse, in my opinion.

 

[Cubby]

I did think of that, but then I wondered - isn't it often tied up with work benefits? And if you cash in early, don't you lose a lot, and have to pay much higher premiums if you want to get insured again, when you're older?

I don't think Bob would have worried about his middle aged children getting a payout if he died, but there is maybe a chance he'd rather have kept up a policy than cash it in and see money going down the drain?

Perhaps Fontelle would be entitled to it, as his wife. In which case, the conservators probably stopped making any payments from the estate, and let the policy lapse, in my opinion.

From what I know from thrifty savers like Bob, they think life insurance is a waste of money and could be better invested elsewhere. I don't know a lot about life insurance, but what I understand it is mostly to cover funeral expenses and to ensure young children would not be affected by the loss of a parent. Many of those type of expenses where long in the past.

I don't see where Bob would have had a need for life insurance at his age.

 

[Cubby]

Fontelle would probably be entitled to any pension Bob had and social security benefits.... I think it was probably those that the girls had stopped when it was discovered he was 'missing'.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Fontelle would probably be entitled to any pension Bob had and social security benefits.... I think it was probably those that the girls had stopped when it was discovered he was 'missing'.

I thought I read a comment from one of the sisters indicating that Fontelle was receiving Bob's pension and benefits. I don't know...i have so many threads and links on here.

 

[Cubby]

Fontelle is not receiving any of Bob's benefits.

 

[Angelo]

So family are saying in the trust proceedings that Bob died, in Placentia, sometime after 12 noon?

Conveniently, that turns the housekeeper into an alibi for son in law, as she's a witness he was in Bob's house from noon (with Bob already gone) until he left for Home Depot - and he has a receipt for that.

Exactly how can anyone maintain Bob died after 12noon though, when it's known he disappeared some time before that?

I suppose Paula's phone conversation with Bob is the crucial evidence being used here, to prove Bob was alive up until about 15 minutes before noon.

Using PB's phone conversation still puts JeM with Mr. Harrod. If the below phone call between PB and Mr. Harrod really did take place, which I doubt, then Mr. Harrod disappeared between 11:30 am and 12 noon.

PB wrote:

"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."


"He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since."

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2706

 

[believe09]

Distributions from Bob's trusts by the daughters prior to the appointment as conservators will be problematic for them and for the institution that didn't have the appropriate paperwork on file to justify access to the trust accounts, I would think. If I have accounts in my name and I disappear, I cant imagine my cousin Jim can come along and start taking money from them whether or not he is listed as a possible beneficiary, right?

I would think Fontelle is going to be entitled to Bob's accumulated SS payments that have not been made since RB cancelled them-doesn't that make sense? And I believe that her stipend is his mandatory IRA distribution-when they tried to force her to pay rent for the marital home (that still makes me laugh btw) they mentioned this IIRC.

 

[believe09]

"My dad responded to him in a favorable way." I mean really. I don't think it took place either, which is disappointing and clearly obstruction of the investigation when this is all litigated.

Using PB's phone conversation still puts JeM with Mr. Harrod. If the below phone call between PB and Mr. Harrod really did take place, which I doubt, then Mr. Harrod disappeared between 11:30 am and 12 noon.

PB wrote:

"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

 

[cloudajo]

Bob's daughter JuM posted on her community forum...

"Nothing new here" and her laptop is overheating so she's not using it for much of anything.

Oh, and she's maintaining her weight.

 

[noZme]

Bob's daughter JuM posted on her community forum...

"Nothing new here" and her laptop is overheating so she's not using it for much of anything.

Oh, and she's maintaining her weight.

Get your priorities straight!

BTW, what ever happened to hubby's cancer?

 

[believe09]

I have been thinking more about what travelbug is posting regarding AH. Maybe it is too easy to vilify everyone here-maybe there are shades of gray. Maybe he simply took advantage of the situation but didn't necessarily participate actively in it. Maybe he will be the one who will step up at the end of the day...you cannot financially benefit from a crime of this kind, so if everyone is knocked out of the beneficiary pool, I would think that AH or his immediate family might have some claim on the trusts. Maybe the combination of love of his GF and financial security will help him do the right thing.

Just the thought of OC Cold Case on one side and wrongful death litigation on the other side would make some hard decisions necessary for someone I would think.

 

[suzyq211]

"My dad responded to him in a favorable way." I mean really. I don't think it took place either, which is disappointing and clearly obstruction of the investigation when this is all litigated.

LOL right! Who the heck says that? Sounds rehearsed to me.

 

[travelbug]

I have been thinking more about what travelbug is posting regarding AH. Maybe it is too easy to vilify everyone here-maybe there are shades of gray. Maybe he simply took advantage of the situation but didn't necessarily participate actively in it. Maybe he will be the one who will step up at the end of the day...you cannot financially benefit from a crime of this kind, so if everyone is knocked out of the beneficiary pool, I would think that AH or his immediate family might have some claim on the trusts. Maybe the combination of love of his GF and financial security will help him do the right thing.

Just the thought of OC Cold Case on one side and wrongful death litigation on the other side would make some hard decisions necessary for someone I would think.

Thanks for entertaining my thoughts. IMO JuM and AH were definitely manipulating (and probably defrauding) Bob. It seems too convenient that AH would have one of his computers at his grandfather's house and that JuM "knew" where to find the missing documents for their heated family meeting (not to mention a detailed inventory of Bob's belongings). I think JuM used her son to dupe Bob because he was the "trusted" family member. I also question whether Bob knowingly executed the various mortgage documents for AH. It's just that after hearing the thoughts of Bob's former neighbor regarding the grandson I'm not yet able to make the leap to "murdered". On the other hand, the SIL has exhibited dark tendencies, based upon postings from JuM. Also, the parents could (irrationally) justify harming Bob if it was to benefit their child and grandchildren. Like I posted earlier, there should be fraud charges brought against every member of this family. jmo :jail:

 

[believe09]

But why didn't grandson have keys to the house? He lived a quarter mile away if that. A non blood relative had keys to Bob's home. Why not a blood relative? I can see why the girls didn't-they had been trying to squeeze him for their mother's portion of the estate once she died. Apparently they didn't understand that Bob and Georgia were each other's beneficiary. On top of that they forced a confrontation over the trusts the day before he was killed and they found out that they were entitled to nothing while he was still alive. With the exception of the personal bequests Georgia made...her jewelry. He had already given them money to stay away from him after Georgia died-paid them to not call or visit. We heard that from a number of sources, including the girls.

PB was the one I had the most hope for-she tipped her father off to RB's plan to imply that he was incompetent or manipulating the assets in the bypass trust. When I read that whole phone call dialog that gives her brother in law an alibi of sorts, my heart sank for her but mostly for Bob. I had a lot of hopes for AH as well-those statements to LE on the day Bob was killed had to show his lack of knowledge. But then his deposition became available and well...

 

[suzyq211]

. On top of that they forced a confrontation over the trusts the day before he was killed and they found out that they were entitled to nothing while he was still alive. QUOTE]

<snipped>

Scary stuff, that.

 

[travelbug]

I may be wrong, but somewhere on here I thought it mentioned that AH did have a key to the house. I thought he waited outside for LE because he didn't want to enter the house alone. PB has been my hope too. I guess we could hope that her call sincerely was to check on Bob after the battle the night before.