CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 7

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  • #601
Speaking generally, (not particularly about Bob) an assertion of someone's mental health, whether by a friend, relative or doctor, would never hold up in a court of law. Just because someone can carry on a conversation, or pay bills it doesn't necessarily mean they are mentally stable. It's much more complicated than that.

From one website: The diagnosis of dementia requires a complete medical and neuropsychological evaluation.

There are all kinds of specific tests, which are administered by more than one doctor, that would determine dementia, competency or other life altering mental issues.

I know several people who have, or actually died from dementia. Most mental illnesses associated with old age come on slowly. I interact with one neighbor on a regular basis. Over time, she was diagnosed with dementia. But it's by far not the only mental problem that afflicts people, in particular the elderly.

Mental health problems related to age, are exactly why elder abuse is so common. Although they need someone to look out for their well being, the elderly also become paranoid, argumentative, stubborn. This is not just my opinion, either. These are facts in the same way that adolescents usually have skin problems. It's not everyone, but a large majority.

Calling for a welfare check on their father is exactly what the daughters should have done when they found out about the hairdresser. But I think they should have called social services since the police are usually not educated about these things. If these incidents were not reported, and Bob's bank account had been wiped out by the hairdresser or someone else, the daughters could have been cited for neglect in the care of a parent. Sometimes you just can't win.

What makes you think a neuropsych wasnt done on Bob, hence his physician's firm statement? ETA how do you know that the daughters called in the welfare check regarding the BL?? Just curious...I may have missed a source.
 
  • #602
What makes you think a neuropsych wasnt done on Bob, hence his physician's firm statement? ETA how do you know that the daughters called in the welfare check regarding the BL?? Just curious...I may have missed a source.
Maybe Bob did have tests done, I have no idea. But most people don't willingly get themselves tested. And if they are tested they do so under protest.

I'm pretty sure I saw on here that LE was called twice regarding a welfare check. Supposedly, the grandson called the night Bob went missing, and I thought one of the daughters called some time (maybe a few weeks or months) before that, when it was found out that the hairdresser had been given quite a lot of money.
 
  • #603
Oh yeah, things must have been peachy. Some time before Bob and Fontelle got in contact again, he "decided he needed some time away from his daughters and he asked them to leave him alone for six months".

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/02/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03

How typical of a 'close family' do you think that is, coming from an 80 year old? It wasn't his daughters requesting to be away from their greedy, mean father -- it was their (elderly) father asking them to stay away from him.

First of all, none of us know why Bob asked his daughters to leave him alone for six months! Could it have been because the hairdresser was bleeding him dry already and the daughters were concerned of the choices their father was making? My goodness, he took her on the boat to distribute their mothers ashes?? How would YOU feel? Bob was lonely. He found a younger woman to console him. Of course he didn't want to be bothered by his daughters!!
 
  • #604
Huh-Every case is different, but I dont know many people who would resist the steps it would take to nail down something that was interfering with their quality of life. My friend's Grandmother had Alzheimers, and I dont recall her saying that her grandmother refused to be diagnosed.

Here is a quote from your post:
Calling for a welfare check on their father is exactly what the daughters should have done when they found out about the hairdresser.

I am confused, lol.
 
  • #605
First of all, none of us know why Bob asked his daughters to leave him alone for six months! Could it have been because the hairdresser was bleeding him dry already and the daughters were concerned of the choices their father was making? My goodness, he took her on the boat to distribute their mothers ashes?? How would YOU feel? Bob was lonely. He found a younger woman to console him. Of course he didn't want to be bothered by his daughters!!

Anyway you slice it, he was a consenting adult who was free to spend his time however and with whomever he pleased.

I think it is sad he didnt choose his daughters. Very sad, given that his wife had died.
 
  • #606
(stuff about dementia respectfully snipped).

I think we would agree that dementia is a medical diagnosis requiring professional assessment. Given that, I'm not sure how you could defend or repeat claims that he had dementia, seeing how the only dementia 'diagnosis' had to have been suggested by one of his daughters, whereas his friend (totally clear of responsibility in Bob's murder) and his doctor said that he did not have dementia.

In this case, I think that I'll go with what professional opinion there is. There was no medical evidence to support dementia. I also want to say, in general, that a person's experience as a mental health patient should not count as expertise in diagnosing things like, say, dementia.

Hi Cracka,
It's nice to meet someone on the same page! A family can see signs of dementia that others can't see because we are used to that persons actions and idiosyncrasies! As a daughter I see things in my mother that others don't see because I am with her more than others. Now, Bob's doctor might not have seen him so often but I have one question? What happened to the HIPPA law that states a Doctor cannot give out a diagnosis to anyone without a court order? PPD? Media? Not even to the daughters! Maybe JuM did see the signs.
 
  • #607
This might help, Cracka-it is the incident report and the MP report.
 

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  • #608
Hi Cracka,
It's nice to meet someone on the same page! A family can see signs of dementia that others can't see because we are used to that persons actions and idiosyncrasies! As a daughter I see things in my mother that others don't see because I am with her more than others. Now, Bob's doctor might not have seen him so often but I have one question? What happened to the HIPPA law that states a Doctor cannot give out a diagnosis to anyone without a court order? PPD? Media? Not even to the daughters! Maybe JuM did see the signs.

Dolly, a quick question-are you in regular contact with your mother? The reason I ask is that this is where the discrepancy lies for me-these women were not in constant contact with their father, certainly for the year after their mother's death.
 
  • #609
Anyway you slice it, he was a consenting adult who was free to spend his time however and with whomever he pleased.

I think it is sad he didnt choose his daughters. Very sad, given that his wife had died.

Depends on who had more to offer!
 
  • #610
This might help, Cracka-it is the incident report and the MP report.

Fontelle must have been concerned if she listed the ONLY lone associate as the hairdresser!!
 
  • #611
Fontelle must have been concerned if she listed the ONLY lone associate as the hairdresser!!

Dolly-she was not there and was clearly given the information by someone else. Surely you see that .
 
  • #612
Dolly, a quick question-are you in regular contact with your mother? The reason I ask is that this is where the discrepancy lies for me-these women were not in constant contact with their father, certainly for the year after their mother's death.

Yes I am, unfortunately! Every weekend I "babysit her" This weekend my daughter gave me a break because between her and my grandson who has problems I was ready to explode!
 
  • #613
Yes I am, unfortunately! Every weekend I "babysit her" This weekend my daughter gave me a break because between her and my grandson who has problems I was ready to explode!

((hugs)) Dolly. Being a caregiver is incredibly difficult work, and I commend you for doing it on the heels, really, of your terrible loss. I am sorry about your grandson as well. :(
 
  • #614
(stuff about dementia respectfully snipped).

I think we would agree with that dementia is a medical diagnosis requiring professional assessment. Given that, I'm not sure how you could defend or repeat claims that he had dementia, given that the only dementia 'diagnosis' had to have been suggested by one of his daughters, whereas his friend (totally clear of responsibility in Bob's murder) and his doctor said that he did not have dementia.

I was not the person who first mentioned dementia. It's as possible as anything, or nothing.

In this case, I think that I'll go with what professional opinion there is. There was no medical evidence to support dementia.

If Bob's doctor is not basing his statements on absolute tests, then his is just a personal opinion- the kind that we all have. Not every 'doctor' is accomplished enough to give this type of diagnosis. It would depend on his specialty. If it's a professional opinion, based on testing, then he should be happy to divulge that.

I found this on the internet: "Detectives who interviewed his doctor say Bob was of sound mind, Loomis said." First, this is heresay. Secondly, It's very vague and amounts to not much of anything. Since there is no definitive evidence one way or the other, I'll reserve judgment in the case of dementia.

I also want to say, in general, that a person's experience as a mental health patient should not count as expertise in diagnosing things like, say, dementia.

I don't see that anyone here has diagnosed Bob, or anyone to be suffering from dementia.
 
  • #615
Now, if dementia is the issue, how did it get him killed? The new media indicates the case is being investigated as a homicide.
 
  • #616
Hi Cracka,
It's nice to meet someone on the same page! A family can see signs of dementia that others can't see because we are used to that persons actions and idiosyncrasies! As a daughter I see things in my mother that others don't see because I am with her more than others. Now, Bob's doctor might not have seen him so often but I have one question? What happened to the HIPPA law that states a Doctor cannot give out a diagnosis to anyone without a court order? PPD? Media? Not even to the daughters! Maybe JuM did see the signs.
Exactly. The beginning signs of any mental condition are often very subtle. You really have to be in constant contact with someone to be able to notice any differences.
 
  • #617
Hipaa laws do not include protecting information from being available to those investigating a criminal or missing persons case. With a subpeona medical records pertaining to an investigation will be released.
 
  • #618
Now, if dementia is the issue, how did it get him killed? The new media indicates the case is being investigated as a homicide.
Since I don't know Bob I have no idea what, if any, mental conditions he suffered from. But poor decisions on his part wound up putting him in a vulnerable position- and someone was able to take advantage of that position. I think he trusted an individual, or individuals, who he shouldn't have. Sadly, it was a deadly mistake.

It's like, if you're overly trusting and let strangers inside your home you're more likely to be harmed by a stranger than say, your neighbor who won't open the door to anyone. Prostitutes are always being targeted because they are in a precarious position. It's too bad we have to live in fear, but these things happen all the time.
 
  • #619
This might help, Cracka-it is the incident report and the MP report.
It's interesting that even Fontelle suspected the hairdresser in Bob's disappearance. Any one of her extended family members should be looked at, as well. I can't imagine why LE apparently didn't do further investigations in this direction. They would certainly have motive.
 
  • #620
It's interesting that even Fontelle suspected the hairdresser in Bob's disappearance. Any one of her extended family members should be looked at, as well. I can't imagine why LE apparently didn't do further investigations in this direction. They would certainly have motive.


Fontelle was given that information by someone else. LE did investigate and stated via MSM the hairdresser and her husband have been cleared of any involvement in Bobs disappearance. And that she had a solid alibi.

http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2010985815_disappeared08.html

The hairdressers children were minors, as was posted upthread. It is against WS TOS to sleuth minors.
 
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