CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

[shefner]

Goodness gracious...you guys that have followed this thread for a long time are all over this thing! I'm impressed and thank you for the helpful timelines and explanations.

I think, as an outsider looking in, that its very obvious what happened here. Someone in the family killed Bob. Now....if they could only prove it.

 

[believe09]

LOL, shefner-I think the record keeping here has been nothing short of amazing. In many ways, it is the heart and soul of this case.

For me, the question is what do they need to prove it? OC has a pretty good record with circumstantial cases...it really feels like a noose is tightening here and I am not sure why.

 

[Cazzie]

new item (currently #2):

Coroner case # 701203398--On Thursday, 5/10/2012 at approximately 4:00 PM, a hiker flagged down the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department Resident Deputy Sheriff out of Baker in the area of Nipton Road and Interstate 15. The hiker directed the deputy to where a human skull was found in the Mojave National Preserve. On Friday, 5/11/2012, the Sheriff's Homicide Detail and Coroner Division responded to the scene to conduct the investigation. The remains do not appear to be historical. An examination will be conducted at a later date for possible cause of death and identification. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Homicide Detail urges anyone with information regarding this case to call Detective A.J. Gibilterra or Sergeant Brad Toms at (909) 387-3598. Callers wishing to remain anonymous may call the We-Tip Hotline at 1-800-78-CRIME (27463). [05112012 1701 SY]

http://www.sbcounty.gov/sheriff/coroner/pressrelease.asp

218 miles from Bob's town, but you never know...(first time posting a map, yikes, long link, and Bing keeps reversing my "A" and "B")...

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pppchj570xsc&lvl=17&dir=0&sty=b&rtp=.33.871120_-117.861397_Placentia,%20CA___e_~.34.137731_-117.191528_E%20Frontage%20Rd,%20Highland,%20CA%2092346___e_~.34.205002_-117.107208_Running%20Springs,%20CA___e_&mode=D&rtop=0~0~0~&form=LMLTCC#Y3A9MzQuNTAyMDI5OTQ1OTkwODg0fi0xMTYuNjk4Njk2NDk5OTk5OSZsdmw9OCZzdHk9YiZydHA9cG9zLjM1LjEyMTkyOV8tMTE1LjUyNzc3MV9Nb2phdmUlMjBOYXRpb25hbCUyMFByZXNlcnZlX19fZV9+cG9zLjMzLjg3MTEyMF8tMTE3Ljg2MTM5N19QbGFjZW50aWElMkMlMjBDQV9fX2VfJm1vZGU9RCZydG9wPTB+MH4wfg==

No update on prev. item #37 now (did we give up on that one?)...

 

[believe09]

Thank you Cazzie. I suppose the perp might have headed to Vegas (or in the vicinity) instead of to home....I actually never considered the possibility before.

 

[believe09]

Given our current beliefs, there would need to be an accomplice I would think...either someone who would willingly stash Bob for a while or who would be willing to remove him to a remote location, while the other party returns to the house to straighten things up. IF straightening up is part of the scenario.

Hmm. Very interesting.

 

[Cubby]

Given our current beliefs, there would need to be an accomplice I would think...either someone who would willingly stash Bob for a while or who would be willing to remove him to a remote location, while the other party returns to the house to straighten things up. IF straightening up is part of the scenario.

Hmm. Very interesting.

Where was the grandson and JuM the day of Bob's disappearance?

 

[cloudajo]

If I'm reading court records and notes correctly, this accounting hearing was rescheduled from 3/26 to 5/7 because required bank statements through 5/31/11 for accounting period were not submitted. On 5/3, daughters PB and RB filed a supplement, but it still did not include the required bank statements through 5/31/11. So the hearing was rescheduled from 5/7 to 6/4. There seems to be a question regarding attorney's fee as well.

Harrod – Conservatorship
30-2009-00291267-pr-ce-ljc

Snipped from probate notes:

REQUIRES ORIGINAL BANK STATEMENTS FOR EDWARD JONES THROUGH THE ACCOUNT PERIOD OF 5/31/11, AS STATEMENTS PROVIDED ARE ONLY THOUGH 5/27/11. SUPPL FILED 5/3/12 INCLUDES HARROD FAMILY TRUST/ LIVING TRUST/ CONSERVATORSHIP FOR 2012. BANK STATEMENTS WHICH WERE NOT ASKED FOR, NEED CONSERVATORSHIP BANK STATEMENTS THROUGH 5/31/11. STATEMENT PROVIDED WERE FROM 1/28 - 2/24/12 WHICH ARE NOT WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR THIS ACCOUNTING.

REQUIRES VERIFIED SUPPLEMENT TO CLARIFY TIME PERIOD OF FEES BEING REQUESTED AS DECLARATION FILED 5/3/12 ALLEGES 7/31/10 - 7/22/11, HOWEVER DETAIL STARTS WITH 7/31/09.

COURT TO DETERMINE ATTORNEY'S FEE OF $14,257.50 MINUS PAYMENT $3,650.12= BALANCE UNPAID OF $10,607.38 BASED ON 53.25 hours BROKEN DOWN TO 37.4 HOURS AT $300, AND 15.85 HOURS AT $150. PLUS ADD'L 2.5 HOURS AT $300 RE: APPEARANCE AND PREP OF ORDER. (7/31/10 - 7/22/11)

https://ocapps.occourts.org/probpubv2/home.do

https://cfapps.occourts.org/calenda...esv3/30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJCM71472496.html

 

[Cubby]

There must be something about those bank statements Bob's daughters do not want the courts to see? I can't imagine any other reason why they would continuously not provide the court with court ordered bank statements. I wonder how long the court is going to allow them and their attorney to play this game. Hmmm.


At first, police believe he may have suffered a health problem typical of his age. But as time goes on and Bob isn't found, they begin to suspect foul play. It's not long until a strong motive surfaces: Bob is a millionaire.

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/disappeared/the-missing/bob-harrod.html

Secret time line, secret handy man jobs and now secret bank statements not being provided to the court, even though the court ordered them more than a year ago. Hmm.

 

[believe09]

Lololololol. Sorry. Anyone surprised by this? Just because you can drag your feet on the trust accounting doesnt mean it is admirable to do so. Then again perhaps Mr Gregg has no idea what he is doing. *shrug*

 

[Cubby]

Given our current beliefs, there would need to be an accomplice I would think...either someone who would willingly stash Bob for a while or who would be willing to remove him to a remote location, while the other party returns to the house to straighten things up. IF straightening up is part of the scenario.

Hmm. Very interesting.

Clearly there was some straightening up. Daughter JuM did post she went dth the day following Bob's disappearance to "change the linens" and she is seen via the KTLV video in Bob's home the 28th. We don't know what other family members in CA were doing Tues July 28th.

 

[suzyq211]

There must be something about those bank statements Bob's daughters do not want the courts to see? I can't imagine any other reason why they would continuously not provide the court with court ordered bank statements. I wonder how long the court is going to allow them and their attorney to play this game. Hmmm.


At first, police believe he may have suffered a health problem typical of his age. But as time goes on and Bob isn't found, they begin to suspect foul play. It's not long until a strong motive surfaces: Bob is a millionaire.

http://investigation.discovery.com/tv/disappeared/the-missing/bob-harrod.html

Secret time line, secret handy man jobs and now secret bank statements not being provided to the court, even though the court ordered them more than a year ago. Hmm.

BBM

How long, is right? How hard is it to get together bank statements...especially under order by the court? It looks like they are again thumbing their collective noses at the powers that be.IMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Given our current beliefs, there would need to be an accomplice I would think...either someone who would willingly stash Bob for a while or who would be willing to remove him to a remote location, while the other party returns to the house to straighten things up. IF straightening up is part of the scenario.

Hmm. Very interesting.

Wouldn't be the first time a perp dumped a body in haste in a place that seemed "good enough" at the time but at a later date returned to move the remains to a more concealed location. Or a location less likely to be associated with the perp.

 

[believe09]

Wouldn't be the first time a perp dumped a body in haste in a place that seemed "good enough" at the time but at a later date returned to move the remains to a more concealed location. Or a location less likely to be associated with the perp.

True. My belief in this case was that it was a day that the perp(s) did not want to extend in anyway shape or form. Let's say for the sake of argument that the body in Baker is Bob. Our moving target of a time line changes directions. CL leaves after SIL who leaves around three.

Wait, wasnt that roughly the time of the Home Depot receipt? So then he was on his way to somewhere else I guess rather than back to Bob's house with whatever item....making all of those versions on the www also false. Like PB's call if the CL Timeline is more accurate.

Yikes.

AH is the one who greeted PPD for the well being check later in the evening...that much we know because of the police report. Note on the report that a sworn officer of the law indicates that AH told him of the heated family meeting of the previous day.

So in order for AH to be involved in this pre well being check, he would have to have been intentionally pointing the finger at his own family, including his parents.

That's stone cold.

 

[shana]

Yes he did. The trust documents are public record-both the Harrod Trust and the Bypass trust were the vehicles used by Bob and Georgia as a means of controlling the tax consequences of either of them dying. Bob was the sole owner and controller of both. Since he has not been declared dead, the money and assets continue to be his. Only his.

Thank you.

I understand the rationale behind the creation of living trusts, pour-over wills, etc.

I am still not finding the original Will & Trust docs online (and from my own POV, I hope they are not accessible to the public nor would I expect them to be since they are not recorded and most of all private).

From the docs here at WS on subsequent filings (thanks to all who provided them!), I understand that he was the Trustee of his own Living Trust (Harrod Family Trust) which is typical.

It appears that the Trust was not setup with at least a secondary trustee, which is unfortunate.

Do we know if the attorney (named in the docs) was aware of Bob's intentions to change the terms of the Harrod Family Trust?

TIA for answers to any of my above queries, stated or implied.

~jmo~

 

[shana]

{snipped, bolding mine} AH is the one who greeted PPD for the well being check later in the evening...that much we know because of the police report. Note on the report that a sworn officer of the law indicates that AH told him of the heated family meeting of the previous day.

So in order for AH to be involved in this pre well being check, he would have to have been intentionally pointing the finger at his own family, including his parents.

That's stone cold.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me from the PPD welfare check report that AH offered that info more as an excuse for why an upset Bob might have wandered-off or whatever, as:

"...fighting in the family recently and Robert was very frustrated over the situation...probably left to get away from the family problems."

~jmo~

 

[shana]

Needless to say, I've been reading the court docs in this case while I try catching-up altogether, as time permits. btw, my gut feelings about the 'situation' have not changed one bit since doing so.

That said, I'm interested in Fontelle's telephonic missing person report to LE (7/28/09 at 0022) in which she cites the hairdresser. Is the consensus of opinion here that she was fed that info from JeM or did she somehow arrive at that conclusion on her own before Bob went missing? Are there any 'documented' refutations?

tia once again

~jmo~

 

[believe09]

Thank you.

I understand the rationale behind the creation of living trusts, pour-over wills, etc.

I am still not finding the original Will & Trust docs online (and from my own POV, I hope they are not accessible to the public nor would I expect them to be since they are not recorded and most of all private).

From the docs here at WS on subsequent filings (thanks to all who provided them!), I understand that he was the Trustee of his own Living Trust (Harrod Family Trust) which is typical.

It appears that the Trust was not setup with at least a secondary trustee, which is unfortunate.

Do we know if the attorney (named in the docs) was aware of Bob's intentions to change the terms of the Harrod Family Trust?

TIA for answers to any of my above queries, stated or implied.

~jmo~

I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me from the PPD welfare check report that AH offered that info more as an excuse for why an upset Bob might have wandered-off or whatever, as:

"...fighting in the family recently and Robert was very frustrated over the situation...probably left to get away from the family problems."

~jmo~

Needless to say, I've been reading the court docs in this case while I try catching-up altogether, as time permits. btw, my gut feelings about the 'situation' have not changed one bit since doing so.

That said, I'm interested in Fontelle's telephonic missing person report to LE (7/28/09 at 0022) in which she cites the hairdresser. Is the consensus of opinion here that she was fed that info from JeM or did she somehow arrive at that conclusion on her own before Bob went missing? Are there any 'documented' refutations?

tia once again

~jmo~

I dont know the answer to the first question, shana. Bob is still considered legally alive so I suspect any of his interactions with his attorney are protected by attorney client privilege.

I agree completely with your assessment of AH-My point was that any prior involvement would likely have caused him NOT to mention the family argument, dont you think? PPD would have to follow up on that argument, certainly the longer Bob was away.

The trust documents and will are public record-they can be requested by any member of the public.

I cant speak for anyone else regarding the MP report, but I genuinely believe Mrs Harrod was fed the material she called in. Why did she call in the report anyway, shana? That is my question. Bob had feet on the ground in CA-3 daughters and SIL and grandson. Why in heaven would you call someone in Missouri and ask them to make the report? MP reports are mandatory-this was an elderly man.

 

[GrainneDhu]

True. My belief in this case was that it was a day that the perp(s) did not want to extend in anyway shape or form. Let's say for the sake of argument that the body in Baker is Bob. Our moving target of a time line changes directions. CL leaves after SIL who leaves around three.

Wait, wasnt that roughly the time of the Home Depot receipt? So then he was on his way to somewhere else I guess rather than back to Bob's house with whatever item....making all of those versions on the www also false. Like PB's call if the CL Timeline is more accurate.

Yikes.

AH is the one who greeted PPD for the well being check later in the evening...that much we know because of the police report. Note on the report that a sworn officer of the law indicates that AH told him of the heated family meeting of the previous day.

So in order for AH to be involved in this pre well being check, he would have to have been intentionally pointing the finger at his own family, including his parents.

That's stone cold.

At that point, AH may not have had any idea of what happened. He may genuinely have thought that Bob was pissed off and left voluntarily. If he was innocent, then I don't think it's too unbelievable that he didn't suspect his own family.

Since AH seems to be the one family member who does not run his keyboard on the internet, I don't have any idea of what he might be thinking now.

Makes me wonder if he sends his kid(s?) for overnight with Grandma JuM and Grandpa JeM.

 

[Cubby]

Add me to the list that believes Mrs. Harrod was fed what she called in just after midnight pacific time. The daughters sure had a lot of time to concoct a story, imo, considering the MP report was called in 9-12 hours after Mr. Harrod was last seen, depending on which report we look at.

IMO, if the SIL was concerned about his FIL at the hands of who they tried to make a poi/suspect, he would have never returned home? prior to that missing persons report being called in.

Mr. Harrod was expecting the housekeeper. JeM was surprised to find her at Bob's house. Do the math, imo, they were expecting no one to notice Mr. Harrod's disappearance until Tuesday, the cleaning ladies usual day, or Wednesday when Mrs. Harrod arrived. They took hours upon hours to concoct a story that simply did not add up from the get go.

 

[Cubby]

IIRC, the SIL told LE he believed Mr. Harrod had gone to visit a neighbor. His wife posted about 28 hours after her fathers disappearance that foul play was suspected. I wonder if she suspected foul play before LE did.... or before PPD told her they suspected foul play. I'm sure PPD has that answer. Hmm.