CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

[Cubby]

My familiarity with Trust/Estate law is confined to a highly complex case in my personal life which has endured (painfully, I might add) for many years. Coupled with my observation of human behavior and interactions from all sides, I've never seen the likes of THIS case! That 'memorabilia' list of nearly 80 items is set-out in great detail...Who remembers this much from memory? It's astonishing and well, frankly, not too believable.

~jmo~

respectfully snipped.


FWIW, I originally counted about 80 items too. However if you read each line, some lines list several items. Hence my coming up with the 100+ items. The number of items on the list exceeds the number of line items.

 

[shefner]

I think the kids knew from day one that daddy wasn't coming home. That heated discussion about the will prompted some quick action. Its obvious by their behavior that the estate is the most important thing.

Greed will eat you alive. There will never be enough. And so what if they get it all...it will soon be gone. And I think the things they will have to live with might be overwhelming down the road.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's my belief that list was NOT compiled from memory. IMO daughter did an inventory to compile that list the day following her fathers disappearance, while she was "changing the linens". This would be the same day she was interviewed by KLTV.

IMO, she took that inventory because she knew from the get go her father was not coming home. And yes, I too believe in eternal justice.

I think JuM was doing more than changing sheets and compiling an inventory.

I strongly believe she was checking the place for a holographic will, just in case Bob had made one after the heated family meeting.

Just from what we know of Bob's life, I strongly doubt he would have made a holographic will and just left it at that. I am certain he would have consulted the attorney who drew up the original by-pass trust and wills.

But as a temporary thing, just to make sure that his wishes were crystal clear... Yeah, I can see JuM taking a gander at every single piece of paper she could find, just to be sure.

I also think Bob never had the time. He had the heated family meeting, spent some time alone, then talked to Fontelle in the evening. Being so new in their marriage, I'm sure that after he told her what had happened, they spent some time with lovebird talk (kinda makes me feel good to think that and I hope it's true).

And then the next morning, something happened before the former Marine could make his own bed. Something his housekeeper had never encountered in his house before.

Considering all that happened to put JuM in a position to take inventory, I'm sure she didn't overlook any possibilities.

If there was a holographic will (I think, based on the timeline, that there probably wasn't one), I suspect that those who caused Bob to go poof used it to completely justify their decision to themselves.

 

[shana]

Perhaps not a holographic will, but quite possibly notes on another yellow piece of paper.

 

[Cubby]

I think JuM was doing more than changing sheets and compiling an inventory.

I strongly believe she was checking the place for a holographic will, just in case Bob had made one after the heated family meeting.

Just from what we know of Bob's life, I strongly doubt he would have made a holographic will and just left it at that. I am certain he would have consulted the attorney who drew up the original by-pass trust and wills.

But as a temporary thing, just to make sure that his wishes were crystal clear... Yeah, I can see JuM taking a gander at every single piece of paper she could find, just to be sure.

I also think Bob never had the time. He had the heated family meeting, spent some time alone, then talked to Fontelle in the evening. Being so new in their marriage, I'm sure that after he told her what had happened, they spent some time with lovebird talk (kinda makes me feel good to think that and I hope it's true).

And then the next morning, something happened before the former Marine could make his own bed. Something his housekeeper had never encountered in his house before.

Considering all that happened to put JuM in a position to take inventory, I'm sure she didn't overlook any possibilities.

If there was a holographic will (I think, based on the timeline, that there probably wasn't one), I suspect that those who caused Bob to go poof used it to completely justify their decision to themselves.

No doubt. IIRC, daughter JuM arrived sometime on Tuesday staying through the evening and until Mrs. Harrod arrived on Wednesday. Conservatively, that is about 24 hours to go through every nook and cranny of that house she was interested in snooping, or doing whatever it was she was doing.

Some interesting information on Holographic Wills.
http://www.trusts-etc.com/holographicwills.html

Since we have loads of documentation Mr. Harrod was very detailed and specific with managing his assets and demonstrating his wishes, I wonder how those handwritten notes, which were reportedly found among his possessions, indicating he intended to had his current wife to his estate planning, would be viewed in a court of law. Particular in a case such as this where his children's and grandson's actions are so very very shady.


Karma is a beyotch. Bob's children, sil and grandson have sewn much. May they reap for all of it.

 

[Cubby]

BTW, thanks for your patience, those of you who have been here so long. You have helped us out with many questions that I am sure you have long since discussed.

Respectfully snipped. Anytime! We may not have all the answers, but we are happy to have the additional interest in Mr. Harrod's case and share what we can to help newbies catch up to speed.

I want to especially thank those who are new or newer to following Mr. Harrod's case. Both those posting, and those members and guest readers! As of May 8 we had 4100 views for this thread. As of Tuesday am the 15th, we were up to 7050 views. In the last 48 hours we've had an additional 1,000 views! And we are currently up to 8,025 views (as of this post)!

Thank you so much to all who continue to soldier on for this special man. Justice Soldiers! :blowkiss:

Thanks again,
Cubby

 

[believe09]

My familiarity with Trust/Estate law is confined to a highly complex case in my personal life which has endured (painfully, I might add) for many years. Coupled with my observation of human behavior and interactions from all sides, I've never seen the likes of THIS case! That 'memorabilia' list of nearly 80 items is set-out in great detail...Who remembers this much from memory? It's astonishing and well, frankly, not too believable.

It took YEARS for me to approach the contents of relatives' homes to clear-out personal belongings. I felt great comfort in leaving things just as they were! And that was after deaths, not a month after a loved one went missing.

Q for anyone who has the original Will and Trust docs: Was Personal Property mentioned at all or were the docs silent on its disposition?

~jmo~

There were specific bequests, jewelry to the daughters and a small amount of cash to AH. Very small amount of cash given the size of Bob's assets. 10K.

Interesting, isnt it?

 

[Cubby]

There were specific bequests, jewelry to the daughters and a small amount of cash to AH. Very small amount of cash given the size of Bob's assets. 10K.

Interesting, isnt it?

Jewelry huh? I guess that means the items on the mile long memorabilia list were not bequested. And I assume this was all known to Bob's daughters, son in law and grandson at least around the time of Georgia's passing, if not earlier.

Interesting, very, very interesting.

 

[GrainneDhu]

No doubt. IIRC, daughter JuM arrived sometime on Tuesday staying through the evening and until Mrs. Harrod arrived on Wednesday. Conservatively, that is about 24 hours to go through every nook and cranny of that house she was interested in snooping, or doing whatever it was she was doing.

Some interesting information on Holographic Wills.
http://www.trusts-etc.com/holographicwills.html

Since we have loads of documentation Mr. Harrod was very detailed and specific with managing his assets and demonstrating his wishes, I wonder how those handwritten notes, which were reportedly found among his possessions, indicating he intended to had his current wife to his estate planning, would be viewed in a court of law. Particular in a case such as this where his children's and grandson's actions are so very very shady.


Karma is a beyotch. Bob's children, sil and grandson have sewn much. May they reap for all of it.

BBM

States vary but I believe most states have laws that prevent perpetrators from profiting from the results of their crime. Depending on the state, that includes the actual perpetrator and anyone found to be an accessory (for instance, the driver for the getaway car who wasn't even in the bank when the security guard was killed).

I think it's possible that the daughters plus JeM could all be found to be accessories, either before or after the fact. I am not sure about AH but the fact that it appears he's benefiting from Bob's disappearance is highly suggestive.

Sooooooooooooooo... the state may well be looking for other heirs at some point. Any notes that Bob made might well point the state towards the correct heirs.

 

[believe09]

BBM

States vary but I believe most states have laws that prevent perpetrators from profiting from the results of their crime. Depending on the state, that includes the actual perpetrator and anyone found to be an accessory (for instance, the driver for the getaway car who wasn't even in the bank when the security guard was killed).

I think it's possible that the daughters plus JeM could all be found to be accessories, either before or after the fact. I am not sure about AH but the fact that it appears he's benefiting from Bob's disappearance is highly suggestive.

Sooooooooooooooo... the state may well be looking for other heirs at some point. Any notes that Bob made might well point the state towards the correct heirs.

Like most trusts, Bob's has a murder clause.

 

[believe09]

Jewelry huh? I guess that means the items on the mile long memorabilia list were not bequested. And I assume this was all known to Bob's daughters, son in law and grandson at least around the time of Georgia's passing, if not earlier.

Interesting, very, very interesting.

Like the Survivors trust, the Bypass/exemption trust, any pension/401K/IRA accounts, and any physical possessions....it is all Bob's. All of it. From the sheets to the stamps to the nick knacks. Bob's.

Mrs Harrod agreed, via mediation, to allow these women access to the house to remove the personal effects of their mother. In fact, Bob had done that as well prior to his disappearance. Out to the studs...they removed everything that wasnt nailed down. I wonder how many items of Fontelle's disappeared. Just curious. Not maliciously of course...I am sure it happened in the rush. A close neighbor told me that after the free for all, the co conservators left trash and empty boxes on the lawn. Nothing like rubbing it in.

JuM will never ever live that list down. And the ludicrous claims that not a single item on it belonged to their father. Oh and that the stairlift was to remain intact.

Are you kidding me?

 

[Cazzie]

What do most (and normal) adult people do when their parent makes their own financial decisions (and is right-minded) and even remarries? I guess, if disappointed with decisions and actions they may vent to friends and family, or try to gently make their preferences known to their parent. They may even just be civil to the parent's new spouse.

It sure seems like someone(s) went over to the dark side in this case and put on some false fronts. JMO. I would love to be wrong!

 

[noZme]

I think the kids knew from day one that daddy wasn't coming home. That heated discussion about the will prompted some quick action. Its obvious by their behavior that the estate is the most important thing.

Greed will eat you alive. There will never be enough. And so what if they get it all...it will soon be gone. And I think the things they will have to live with might be overwhelming down the road.

Thanks shefner, I agree & re: "the things they will have to live with might be overwhelming down the road." (sigh) One can only hope so.

 

[shefner]

Like the Survivors trust, the Bypass/exemption trust, any pension/401K/IRA accounts, and any physical possessions....it is all Bob's. All of it. From the sheets to the stamps to the nick knacks. Bob's.

Mrs Harrod agreed, via mediation, to allow these women access to the house to remove the personal effects of their mother. In fact, Bob had done that as well prior to his disappearance. Out to the studs...they removed everything that wasnt nailed down. I wonder how many items of Fontelle's disappeared. Just curious. Not maliciously of course...I am sure it happened in the rush. A close neighbor told me that after the free for all, the co conservators left trash and empty boxes on the lawn. Nothing like rubbing it in.

JuM will never ever live that list down. And the ludicrous claims that not a single item on it belonged to their father. Oh and that the stairlift was to remain intact.

Are you kidding me?

How do they show their faces? And they have friends? I doubt it.

Hell is mighty hot.....they should bear that in mind.

 

[Cubby]

How do they show their faces? And they have friends? I doubt it.

Hell is mighty hot.....they should bear that in mind.

Not only do I not know how they show their faces, I don't know how daughter JuM, author of the 100+ item memorabilia list, posts the following to her community:

Paraphrased, she is wondering what happened to all of her mothers belongings.

http://forums.rimoftheworld.net/showthread.php?60-claire&p=76531&viewfull=1#post76531

I don't think it was Mr. Harrod who had 'forgetfullness'. Daughter JuM appears to have selective memory. She didn't have any problems forgetting the exact locations, under the stairs, in what cabinet where when she compiled this list "from memory".

In case anyone has yet to see the memorabilia list, which she and her sisters received, here it is:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Documents No discussion


We know from believe09's post above the items in the above list were received and whatever they were uninterested in was discarded as trash across Mr. and Mrs. Harrod's front lawn.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[Cazzie]

:grouphug:

I know it is not just me who is hurting just thinking about the facts of this case.

:sigh:

Fortunately I believe that LE has it "covered" and it's just a matter of time.

 

[suzyq211]

Paraphrased, she is wondering what happened to all of her mothers belongings.

http://forums.rimoftheworld.net/showthread.php?60-claire&p=76531&viewfull=1#post76531

<respectfully snipped>

Perhaps someone could kindly point her to the link containing the memorabilia list;-)

Un-FREAKIN-believable!!

 

[believe09]

Not only do I not know how they show their faces, I don't know how daughter JuM, author of the 100+ item memorabilia list, posts the following to her community:

Paraphrased, she is wondering what happened to all of her mothers belongings.

http://forums.rimoftheworld.net/showthread.php?60-claire&p=76531&viewfull=1#post76531

I don't think it was Mr. Harrod who had 'forgetfullness'. Daughter JuM appears to have selective memory. She didn't have any problems forgetting the exact locations, under the stairs, in what cabinet where when she compiled this list "from memory".

In case anyone has yet to see the memorabilia list, which she and her sisters received, here it is:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Documents No discussion


We know from believe09's post above the items in the above list were received and whatever they were uninterested in was discarded as trash across Mr. and Mrs. Harrod's front lawn.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

You know what I would LOVE to know? Where all the stuff currently is. It was a lot. Unless these women live in some pretty spacious homes, where would all of it fit?

Can you imagine if they went to all of this trouble to strip their father's house and then put it all into storage or sold it?

 

[Oriah]

You know what I would LOVE to know? Where all the stuff currently is. It was a lot. Unless these women live in some pretty spacious homes, where would all of it fit?

Can you imagine if they went to all of this trouble to strip their father's house and then put it all into storage or sold it?[/quote]

Unfortunately, I can imagine this.

When checking storage rentals (thought being, Bob may be inside one, or was at one time) I found quite a few in several areas of interest.

I assume PPD has checked?

 

[believe09]

Unfortunately, I can imagine this.

When checking storage rentals (thought being, Bob may be inside one, or was at one time) I found quite a few in several areas of interest.

I assume PPD has checked?

That is an interesting question, Oriah. I dont know.