CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[J Sleuth]

Happy new year to you all. Does anybody have a plausible theory who was killed first according to the facial wounds of HS and arrival times of HS and BS. Why did HS supposedly try to flee at some time or showed a kind of resistance while BS seemed not having resisted the attackers at all. Could it be that BS has been unconscience perhaps by chloroform that he didn’t or couldn’t resist during the attack. For the attackers it would be the best to make as less noise as possible and do it as quick as possible. The staging of the bodies tell me that the attackers really enjoyed killing them trying to look them ridiculous with the message now we let you both hanging. The mastermind behind these attacks was thinking maybe you both also did hang me because you both ruïned my life too.

 

[J Sleuth]

Sorry about blank post. I wanted to add that IMO, the reason for the posing is the big question. I agree that humiliation of the Shermans was probably a big part of it. I also think the perpetrators may have taken a picture of the posed bodies either to provide to their contractors or for their own souvenir. This aspect has likely been discussed previously on this board.

 

[fadedglitter]

Sorry about blank post. I wanted to add that IMO, the reason for the posing is the big question. I agree that humiliation of the Shermans was probably a big part of it. I also think the perpetrators may have taken a picture of the posed bodies either to provide to their contractors or for their own souvenir. This aspect has likely been discussed previously on this board.

For a long time, I wondered if the positioning was for the purposes of getting a “good photo”. The early descriptions of the bodies as seated side by side made me think both torsos were perpendicular to the floor (or nearly so). A macabre photo, to be sure, but it would be a proof-of-death image that could be used until the bodies were found.

Since then we’ve gotten a better description of the positioning, and Honey in particular is tipped way back, almost reclining. That makes for a less compelling photo.

 

[hexicon]

I think the posing (I'd call it staging) was done for pragmatic reasons rather than humiliation/satisfaction. The killer wanted to create a false M/S scene and postpone the discovery for as long as possible. I don't think the killer(s) thought that the M/S facade would hold for long, but they hoped (correctly as it turned out) that the staged scene would result in confusion and delay.

As for postponing the discovery, I think the killer benefited from an discovery delay that was even longer than expected. If there hadn't been a real estate showing, the ordinary visitors to the house on Friday (housekeeper, personal trainer, gardener) might not have gone to the pool room at all. Likewise, the killers might have expected some kind of call to the kids/LE welfare check* after Barry failed to show up at work on Thursday, but that apparently didn't happen.

*I realize we don't know about the mystery visitor on Thursday and whether that was LE, a real estate agent, or someone else.

 

[dotr]

2019

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?

While the Shermans lay dead in the basement pool room of their Toronto home a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

www.thestar.com

''While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement of their Toronto home, a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.
Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appeared to enter the house through the front door, then came back outside. He did this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off.''

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''Police know mystery man in Sherman house''​

''Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders says his officers have interviewed the mystery man who spent 29 minutes inside the home of Barry and Honey Sherman while they lay dead in the basement. “I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they...''

 

[fadedglitter]

I think the posing (I'd call it staging) was done for pragmatic reasons rather than humiliation/satisfaction. The killer wanted to create a false M/S scene and postpone the discovery for as long as possible. I don't think the killer(s) thought that the M/S facade would hold for long, but they hoped (correctly as it turned out) that the staged scene would result in confusion and delay.

As for postponing the discovery, I think the killer benefited from an discovery delay that was even longer than expected. If there hadn't been a real estate showing, the ordinary visitors to the house on Friday (housekeeper, personal trainer, gardener) might not have gone to the pool room at all. Likewise, the killers might have expected some kind of call to the kids/LE welfare check* after Barry failed to show up at work on Thursday, but that apparently didn't happen.

*I realize we don't know about the mystery visitor on Thursday and whether that was LE, a real estate agent, or someone else.

A killer who knew anything at all about the Shermans’ lives would have been expecting Honey’s assistant Sheila to show up Thursday morning and for staff at Apotex to notice Barry’s absence soon afterwards. Anyone who came to the house would notice the newspaper hadn’t been collected, and that the beds were untouched.

MOO: the killer likely expected the bodies to be discovered on Thursday and never thought they would get an extra 24 hours.

 

[ldlager]

A killer who knew anything at all about the Shermans’ lives would have been expecting Honey’s assistant Sheila to show up Thursday morning and for staff at Apotex to notice Barry’s absence soon afterwards. Anyone who came to the house would notice the newspaper hadn’t been collected, and that the beds were untouched.

MOO: the killer likely expected the bodies to be discovered on Thursday and never thought they would get an extra 24 hours.

We know that one of the hired staff picked up the newspaper on the front porch when they arrived on Friday morning. In media reports, it is referred to as the “newspaper” (singular). IIRC the person found it unusual, as BS usually was reading the paper inside when she usually arrived.
But there should have been two newspapers on the porch- one from Thursday and one from Friday. Where was Thursdays paper? Who moved or removed it?

 

[dotr]

November 19, 2020 rbbm

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

''The newspaper was sitting on the front doorstep. That was odd, the trainer and housekeeper recalled thinking. By that time on all previous Fridays, Barry had opened the front door, taken in the paper and was reading it in the kitchen, waiting for Young. It was always the same on Fridays. Young would train Barry with some light exercises for an hour in a small upstairs gym area off their bedroom; Honey would do a more vigorous workout for the next two hours while Barry went to work.

Macatangay collected the paper, and the mail, and she and the trainer walked to the side door. It was locked. Macatangay used her key and was surprised to find the alarm system was off. As she later told police, it was always armed when she arrived. Honey’s aging gold Lexus SUV was in its regular spot by the side door.

Around the same time, a white van from a furnace company showed up. It was a regular service call by Allan Caruk. The 12,000-square-foot house had four furnaces. Caruk followed the housekeeper and trainer inside. He took his tools and went down to the furnace room in the cavernous basement.

The house was dark inside. No lights were on and it was a gloomy day; snow had fallen overnight.''

 

[FromGermany1]

Macatangay used her key and was surprised to find the alarm system was off. As she later told police, it was always armed when she arrived. Honey’s aging gold Lexus SUV was in its regular spot by the side door.

bbm
It was still armed, although Barry was already waiting for his newspaper to read in the kitchen?

 

[Aquabot13]

bbm
It was still armed, although Barry was already waiting for his newspaper to read in the kitchen?

That's odd.

I wonder if "armed" here could mean something other than the full alarm in an "away" configuration which would be loud/ongoing and call the alarm company.

My alarms also have a "stay" configuration that can be set up to notify you with a few chirps about open exterior doors.

I don't think it's unusual to have a "stay" alarm armed throughout the day, especially if you're expecting visitors or have a lot of doors. The "away" alarm would be a LOT to deal with every time a door opened, IMO, especially if they'd already been outside that day.

This does make me wonder about the alarm setup and how it may have been customized. Specifically, I'm curious about the pool door. Since a pool is a safety hazard and theirs was out of sight, maybe they had the pool door included as an "external" door on their alarm system.

A family member has a house with an indoor pool - not a new build by any means, an old-school tudor. Even without the advantages of new build built-in security, that door is HEAVILY alarmed. I'm also pretty sure it has a surface alarm in case of someone falling in.

All this to say that it may have been important to the intruder(s) that the alarm was FULLY off. In that case, they either knew about the various levels of alarms that were set up (if any) or they didn't want to take any chances.

Do they have the info about when the alarm was disarmed? If it was when the first victim arrived home, I think it's telling that the alarm wasn't also set to "stay" in the same encounter. It makes me think someone was waiting and ready (maybe even behind them?) before the victim got the chance to arm it again.

MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

Here’s the section of the ITOs related to the alarm system. There are 12 zones. The alarm would have been set before bed and disarmed each morning, then set again on December 13 as Sheila was leaving (she had to stay late) and disarmed either by Honey or the murderer; the time is redacted.

 

[tarabull]

Has anyone tried copy and pasting the redacted to a new document??

 

[ldlager]

That's odd.

I wonder if "armed" here could mean something other than the full alarm in an "away" configuration which would be loud/ongoing and call the alarm company.

My alarms also have a "stay" configuration that can be set up to notify you with a few chirps about open exterior doors.

I don't think it's unusual to have a "stay" alarm armed throughout the day, especially if you're expecting visitors or have a lot of doors. The "away" alarm would be a LOT to deal with every time a door opened, IMO, especially if they'd already been outside that day.

This does make me wonder about the alarm setup and how it may have been customized. Specifically, I'm curious about the pool door. Since a pool is a safety hazard and theirs was out of sight, maybe they had the pool door included as an "external" door on their alarm system.

A family member has a house with an indoor pool - not a new build by any means, an old-school tudor. Even without the advantages of new build built-in security, that door is HEAVILY alarmed. I'm also pretty sure it has a surface alarm in case of someone falling in.

All this to say that it may have been important to the intruder(s) that the alarm was FULLY off. In that case, they either knew about the various levels of alarms that were set up (if any) or they didn't want to take any chances.

Do they have the info about when the alarm was disarmed? If it was when the first victim arrived home, I think it's telling that the alarm wasn't also set to "stay" in the same encounter. It makes me think someone was waiting and ready (maybe even behind them?) before the victim got the chance to arm it again.

MOO

My home alarm can be armed to just monitor the external doors and ignore the internal motion detectors. It may be that HS or BS collected the paper off the porch in the morning, and once back inside they typically armed the exterior door alarms. Frankly, that would surprise me, once we are up and about in the house and someone goes outside and comes back in we never re-arm the exterior door alarm. And the Sherman’s didn’t seem to be overly security conscious.

 

[fadedglitter]

My home alarm can be armed to just monitor the external doors and ignore the internal motion detectors. It may be that HS or BS collected the paper off the porch in the morning, and once back inside they typically armed the exterior door alarms. Frankly, that would surprise me, once we are up and about in the house and someone goes outside and comes back in we never re-arm the exterior door alarm. And the Sherman’s didn’t seem to be overly security conscious.

It wouldn’t have made sense to re-arm the doors on the 13th. It was a busy day with contractors coming and going. A lot of people were in and out that day. The doors would have opened and closed dozens of times.

It would have been possible for the murderer to get inside earlier that day and simply wait in the house for Honey to be alone, but that person would have been caught on the internal motion detectors when Sheila left at 4:34 and set the alarm. Had that happened, those entries would likely have been included in the ITOs as relevant information. The lack of other entries in the ITOs suggests to me that the police believed the only relevant alarm information was the times of arming and disarming.

 

[ldlager]

It wouldn’t have made sense to re-arm the doors on the 13th. It was a busy day with contractors coming and going. A lot of people were in and out that day. The doors would have opened and closed dozens of times.

It would have been possible for the murderer to get inside earlier that day and simply wait in the house for Honey to be alone, but that person would have been caught on the internal motion detectors when Sheila left at 4:34 and set the alarm. Had that happened, those entries would likely have been included in the ITOs as relevant information. The lack of other entries in the ITOs suggests to me that the police believed the only relevant alarm information was the times of arming and disarming.

Yes you may well be correct.
My post was trying to assess the veracity of the service provider statement that when she arrived at the house on Friday mornings the alarm was “always” armed, and BS was already inside reading the paper. That could only be true if BS or HS always reset the alarm after they went outside to pick up the paper in the morning. That seems unlikely to me. MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

I think that we have to be careful about getting too tied up on superfluous issues, like how the alarm system worked and if it was activated. Whatever the status of the alarm system, it had no impact on what happened in the Sherman home.

I may be wrong, and there may be other key factors, but some details I think should be focused on.

• Where did the assailants live while in Toronto. They had to live/stay somewhere, even if only for a few hours, before and after being at the Sherman home. If we know where they were, we may learn who they were.
• How did they travel in Toronto?
• How did the assailants communicate with one and other? Maybe only by voice and written notes.
• Were the assailants hired and paid? How was this done?
• Or were they acting on their own? Why?

Probably a number of other issues that can lead to a solution to the investigation as well.

MOO

 

[ldlager]

I think that we have to be careful about getting too tied up on superfluous issues, like how the alarm system worked and if it was activated. Whatever the status of the alarm system, it had no impact on what happened in the Sherman home.

I may be wrong, and there may be other key factors, but some details I think should be focused on.

• Where did the assailants live while in Toronto. They had to live/stay somewhere, even if only for a few hours, before and after being at the Sherman home. If we know where they were, we may learn who they were.
• How did they travel in Toronto?
• How did the assailants communicate with one and other? Maybe only by voice and written notes.
• Were the assailants hired and paid? How was this done?
• Or were they acting on their own? Why?

Probably a number of other issues that can lead to a solution to the investigation as well.

MOO

I don’t view the alarm as a superfluous matter. For example, It is possible that the killers entered the home undetected before HS got home, and they did so by either breaking in the house, or using a key and then disarming the alarm. Who knew the alarm codes to the house? There was a dispute between LE and the PI’s as to whether locks were tampered with. Who had keys?

 

[WINDSOR]

I don’t view the alarm as a superfluous matter. For example, It is possible that the killers entered the home undetected before HS got home, and they did so by either breaking in the house, or using a key and then disarming the alarm. Who knew the alarm codes to the house? There was a dispute between LE and the PI’s as to whether locks were tampered with. Who had keys?

Keys are not required for experts. Locks can be defeated, patio doors can be opened with the correct tools, windows can be jimmied. Alarms can be defeated or disabled.

You speculate that....''It is possible that the killers entered the home undetected before HS got home, and they did so by either breaking in the house, or using a key and then disarming the alarm". If this is in fact correct, it provides no clue to the identity of the killers.

Who had keys? Lots of people I would guess.

 

[dotr]

2019 rbbm.

WARMINGTON: 'Window was left open' as Sherman home painted

Since it was a “targeted” double homicide, it was logical that Toronto Police interviewed some house painters who were in the Sherman mansion sometime in the day be…

torontosun.com

''Small details — like there were professional painters in that house or that a window was open — only help.

Barry and Honey Sherman were found slain in their Old Colony Rd. mansion on Dec. 15, 2017.
It puts more people in that house around the time, which includes cleaning professionals and real estate people.

It’s not saying they are suspects, but those who can assist police with information few others could.

“The window was left open to clear the smell of the paint from the area,” explained a family friend.

Could that detail show an entry or exit point in a home showing no forced entry?

Could information that there was also a door “never locked” mean there was another entrance or exit possibility?

 

[ldlager]

Keys are not required for experts. Locks can be defeated, patio doors can be opened with the correct tools, windows can be jimmied. Alarms can be defeated or disabled.

You speculate that....''It is possible that the killers entered the home undetected before HS got home, and they did so by either breaking in the house, or using a key and then disarming the alarm". If this is in fact correct, it provides no clue to the identity of the killers.

Who had keys? Lots of people I would guess.

And who knew the alarm codes?