Canada, Greenland, Mexico, etc - USA Tariffs / Trade War commencing March 2025 #4

[otto]

Trump seems to think that the Asian markets are crashing because they deserve it. What's he going to do when the USA market crashes?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The world needs to pivot; time to move to the Euro as the global base currency.

AKA de-dollarize.

-

I'm not sure I would consider the Euro a safe option at the moment. There are a lot of tensions within the EU over things like migration, borders, security and suchlike which are leading some individual countries such as Germany and Hungary to break step with the Brussels consensus. Some countries also have Brexit-style independence movements seeking a return to the nation state. Most of them are small at the moment but there again so was the Brexit movement originally. If the EU survives it will probably be because member states choose to pull together in the face of the Russian threat rather than follow their own wider interests. However, the continuance of the Euro very much depends on the continuance of the EU itself.

I gather there has been some talk of Canada applying to join the EU, but I wonder whether Canada is ready to give up its own currency and adopt the Euro, which is a requirement for new EU members. Given the EU's avowed intention of becoming a single, unified state, it's difficult to see where the advantage is to Canada in joining the EU (protectionist, semi-democratic) rather than the US (protectionist, semi-democratic). Either would amount to colonisation.

 

[detective.moon]

I'm not sure I would consider the Euro a safe option at the moment. There are a lot of tensions within the EU over things like migration, borders, security and suchlike which are leading some individual countries such as Germany and Hungary to break step with the Brussels consensus. Some countries also have Brexit-style independence movements seeking a return to the nation state. Most of them are small at the moment but there again so was the Brexit movement originally. If the EU survives it will probably be because member states choose to pull together in the face of the Russian threat rather than follow their own wider interests. However, the continuance of the Euro very much depends on the continuance of the EU itself.

I gather there has been some talk of Canada applying to join the EU, but I wonder whether Canada is ready to give up its own currency and adopt the Euro, which is a requirement for new EU members. Given the EU's avowed intention of becoming a single, unified state, it's difficult to see where the advantage is to Canada in joining the EU (protectionist, semi-democratic) rather than the US (protectionist, semi-democratic). Either would amount to colonisation.

respectfully, i don’t think it would be colonisation to decide to join the european union. being invaded by another country against your will is a whole different story.

@otto kamala did react, not so long ago! i will see if i can find a source. to be honest i wouldn’t have blamed her if she didn’t. she predicted this would happen, and too many people still voted for it to happen, i don’t think anyone can expect from her that she will now try to save the situation when she has done what she can to provide a better alternative.

eta source:

Kamala Harris On Trump: 'I'm Not Gonna Say I Told You So'

The former vice president spoke at the Leading Women Defined Summit in California on Thursday.

www.huffpost.com

How Kamala Harris inspired 350k reactions with speech

Kamala Harris inspires social media reactions after calling on Americans to resist intimidation and stand up to unconstitutional threats during women's summit.

rollingout.com

 

[Trooper]

I'm not sure I would consider the Euro a safe option at the moment. There are a lot of tensions within the EU over things like migration, borders, security and suchlike which are leading some individual countries such as Germany and Hungary to break step with the Brussels consensus. Some countries also have Brexit-style independence movements seeking a return to the nation state. Most of them are small at the moment but there again so was the Brexit movement originally. If the EU survives it will probably be because member states choose to pull together in the face of the Russian threat rather than follow their own wider interests. However, the continuance of the Euro very much depends on the continuance of the EU itself.

I gather there has been some talk of Canada applying to join the EU, but I wonder whether Canada is ready to give up its own currency and adopt the Euro, which is a requirement for new EU members. Given the EU's avowed intention of becoming a single, unified state, it's difficult to see where the advantage is to Canada in joining the EU (protectionist, semi-democratic) rather than the US (protectionist, semi-democratic). Either would amount to colonisation.

Canada could become , like Norway, like Denmark, like Belgium.. like 27 other nations, including France and Germany.... a member of the EEA

All 27 countries are also members of the EU... Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway and the only countries in the EEA that are not in the EU.

The EU countries Cyprus and Ireland are not part of the Schengen area. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area but are not EU member states.

Then there are the EU candidate countries who wish to join the EU,.....Bosnia/Herzegovinia , Albania, Montenegro, Moldovia, Georgia, North Macedonia.. Serbia, Ukraine, and Turkiye.,. Kossova wishes to be included but does not meet the criteria.

quick explanation of what is an EEA country..

The EU countries Cyprus and Ireland are not part of the Schengen area. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area but are not EU member states.
The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

The European Union (EU) is an economic and political union of 27 countries. It operates an internal (or single) market which allows free movement of goods, capital, services and people between member states.

What does Schengen mean??

The Schengen area comprises 29 countries, including 25 EU member states, where citizens can travel freely without border controls. The other four non-EU countries in the Schengen area are Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.

So Canada joining the EEA would be quite the boost to it's economy, obviously, a bigger market, a supremely synchronised customs process, and access to the entire European rail system for transporting cargo. One of the greatest benefits to Canada would be they would not be a target of Donald Trump, and that might be worth it , in the end.. You can see how that would appeal .

 

[MelmothTheLost]

respectfully, i don’t think it would be colonisation to decide to join the european union. being invaded by another country against your will is a whole different story.

It's a form of colonisation because of what prospective members are forced to give up in order to join. Not just their own currency (and therefore control of their exchange and interest rates and therefore of their economy) but also control of their own trade policy. The UK recently became a member of the CPTPP, which was only possible because of Brexit and the UK taking back the ability to set its own trading policy. France has colonies/overseas territories in the Pacific and would be a strong candidate to join the CPTPP but cannot do so while it is a member of the EU. Since its invasion by Russia, Ukraine has applied to join both organisations, which is a nonsense as the EU precludes individual country membership of other trading blocs and agreements for new members.

The direction the EU is going in is much more monolithic than the US. Imagine the US without states' rights and you have some idea of the ultimate vision of the EU political elite.

 

[Trooper]

It's a form of colonisation because of what prospective members are forced to give up in order to join. Not just their own currency (and therefore control of their exchange and interest rates and therefore of their economy) but also control of their own trade policy. The UK recently became a member of the CPTPP, which was only possible because of Brexit and the UK taking back the ability to set its own trading policy. France has colonies/overseas territories in the Pacific and would be a strong candidate to join the CPTPP but cannot do so while it is a member of the EU. Since its invasion by Russia, Ukraine has applied to join both organisations, which is a nonsense as the EU precludes individual country membership of other trading blocs and agreements for new members.

The direction the EU is going in is much more monolithic than the US. Imagine the US without states' rights and you have some idea of the ultimate vision of the EU political elite.

''It's a form of colonisation because of what prospective members are forced to give up in order to join.'

No. it is not. It is a voluntary matter, and would be subject to the other nations agreeing, it isn't just ask to join and you become .. it isn't like the USA taking over Hawaii, or American Samoa, or Guam .and dispossing the orginal inhabitants of their heritage, it is a whole other thing altogether, and is worth the time to learn about it in a systematic way

Britain still has colonies, so how it became a member of the CPTPP must be a mystery.. Cayman Island ., Bahamas, Muarituos, South Georgia, Chagossian ... Gibraltar, Pitcairn Island.. and so on.

If you want to join a club, you must agree to the clubs rules. Like the USA who used to belong to the free trade movement and then decided to break the rules, you get booted out, simple really.

France no longer has colonies
France currently has 13 overseas territories across the globe. All of the residents are French nationals, can vote for president and send representatives to France's National Assembly and Senate. Out of those, five are classified as overseas departments — meaning they are fully subject to French laws. These territories are remnants of the colonial empire and are integrated into France as overseas departments and territories within the French Republic. France no longer has colonies in the traditional sense of the word.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=does%20France%20still%20have%20colonies%3F%3F%20&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&lq=0&pq=does%20france%20still%20have%20colonies%3F%3F%20&sc=12-34&sk=&cvid=3B4FD118F45645A199142BBB428261EB

 

[SouthAussie]

I stand corrected. Harris is somewhat forgettable. I forgot about her. As a political leader running for president, she must be one of the most important politicians in the USA. I haven't heard anything from her regarding Trump's war against most of the world. Why is she so quiet?

She's not so quiet. She left her political office and is now apparently ramping up for something else (Gov of California).
And it wouldn't surprise me if Gavin Newsom (the current Gov of California) went for a more national position.

It is hard for anyone to be heard over Trump. Which is how he likes it. Always remaining in the headlines with something to shock. imo

Kamala Harris sets a deadline for her next move

Kamala spoke at the Leading Women Defined Summit in California just a couple of days ago ... speaking about how they knew this would happen, now they need the courage to stand up against it.

'I'm not here to say I told you so': Kamala Harris says this is what 'we knew would happen'

Former Vice President Kamala Harris spoke out for the first time in months at the Leading Women Defined Summit in California. Rep. Jamie Raskin joins Jen

www.msnbc.com

 

[SouthAussie]

Trump seems to think that the Asian markets are crashing because they deserve it. What's he going to do when the USA market crashes?

My guess is that he is going to ask the reporters which publication they work for.


Hordern then tried to return to the topic of tariffs, but Trump used his now familiar tactic of asking: “Who are you with?” ― to sidestep the question.

When told Bloomberg, he called on another journalist and said, “She asks too many questions.”

Donald Trump Loses It Over Reporter’s Straightforward Tariffs Question: ‘So Stupid’

The president also deployed a familiar tactic to sidestep another awkward question.

www.yahoo.com

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Canada could become , like Norway, like Denmark, like Belgium.. like 27 other nations, including France and Germany.... a member of the EEA

Yes, no doubt it could, but it is prepared to effectively surrrender control of immigration open its borders to every citizen or legal resident of the EU? All 500m of them? Regardless of their criminal background or ability or willingness to contribute to society?

One of the reasons the UK walked away from the EEA as part of Brexit was precisely over the open borders issue. And now we have Germany seeking to reinstate its national borders to try to control immigration.

Then there are the EU candidate countries who wish to join the EU,.....Bosnia/Herzegovinia , Albania, Montenegro, Moldovia, Georgia, North Macedonia.. Serbia, Ukraine, and Turkiye.,. Kossova wishes to be included but does not meet the criteria.

And all of them are poor, unstable and in many cases riddled with crime and corruption. None of them are likely to be attractive to the EU citizen on the streets of Berlin, Stockholm or Lisbon, especially given that many of them are already sources of organised crime across the EU. Only 9 of the EU's 27 current members are net financial contributors. The rest, including Spain which has been a member for almost 40 years, are net takers from the pot.

Infographic: Which Countries are EU Contributors and Beneficiaries?

This chart shows which countries are net contributors and net beneficiaries to the EU 2021 budget.

www.statista.com

The candidate countries you list would have to be bailed out without limit for generations. Can you see Canada agreeing to that?

And Turkey has no chance of joining, not least because of its lurch to dictatorship in recent years.

The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

EEA members have to adopt whole swathes of EU law and regulation as a price for access to the single market. In effect, they surrender some of their sovereignty in the process.

The EU is simply a mechanism for transferring power from the citizens of national states and their elected governments to an unelected political class, and for transferring the wealth of western Europe eastwards to an endless stream of ever poorer countries.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, no doubt it could, but it is prepared to effectively surrrender control of immigration open its borders to every citizen or legal resident of the EU? All 500m of them? Regardless of their criminal background or ability or willingness to contribute to society?

One of the reasons the UK walked away from the EEA as part of Brexit was precisely over the open borders issue. And now we have Germany seeking to reinstate its national borders to try to control immigration.


And all of them are poor, unstable and in many cases riddled with crime and corruption. None of them are likely to be attractive to the EU citizen on the streets of Berlin, Stockholm or Lisbon, especially given that many of them are already sources of organised crime across the EU. Only 9 of the EU's 27 current members are net financial contributors. The rest, including Spain which has been a member for almost 40 years, are net takers from the pot.

Infographic: Which Countries are EU Contributors and Beneficiaries?

This chart shows which countries are net contributors and net beneficiaries to the EU 2021 budget.

www.statista.com

The candidate countries you list would have to be bailed out without limit for generations. Can you see Canada agreeing to that?

And Turkey has no chance of joining, not least because of its lurch to dictatorship in recent years.

EEA members have to adopt whole swathes of EU law and regulation as a price for access to the single market. In effect, they surrender some of their sovereignty in the process.

The EU is simply a mechanism for transferring power from the citizens of national states and their elected governments to an unelected political class, and for transferring the wealth of western Europe eastwards to an endless stream of ever poorer countries.

A bit racist don't you think?? slagging off whole nations and this bit is sheer nonsense. ''The EU is simply a mechanism for transferring power from the citizens of national states and their elected governments to an unelected political class, and for transferring the wealth of western Europe eastwards to an endless stream of ever poorer countries'''.'

Just admit you are not a fan of the EU because it is Trumps bugbear, he is so cross because they are a rival to his dream of unlimited power... the EU works for 800 million people, which is a hell of a lot more than American Republicanism is currently looking after and working for the paltry 350 million poor and getting poorer by the hour, Americans.

Add to that, the parlous position poor wretched Brits are in, because they listened to Nige, any one could tell he was bananas... Brits now want to REJOIN the EU, they can see the writing on the wall.. their whole lives are lived in regret.. the most useless emotion of them all..

I could claim this about the USA>...with unarguable truth., ''And all of them are poor, unstable and in many cases riddled with crime and corruption.'

 

[detective.moon]

It's a form of colonisation because of what prospective members are forced to give up in order to join. Not just their own currency (and therefore control of their exchange and interest rates and therefore of their economy) but also control of their own trade policy. The UK recently became a member of the CPTPP, which was only possible because of Brexit and the UK taking back the ability to set its own trading policy. France has colonies/overseas territories in the Pacific and would be a strong candidate to join the CPTPP but cannot do so while it is a member of the EU. Since its invasion by Russia, Ukraine has applied to join both organisations, which is a nonsense as the EU precludes individual country membership of other trading blocs and agreements for new members.

The direction the EU is going in is much more monolithic than the US. Imagine the US without states' rights and you have some idea of the ultimate vision of the EU political elite.

well, we have very different views on the EU and immigration, so i say let’s agree to disagree before we go too far off topic. if i remember correctly you are from the UK? i am from a EU country so i guess we both have what we want!

 

[SouthAussie]

We could always tie our currencies to the Swiss franc ... the most stable currency in the world.
Or to the Aussie dollar. We are #8 on the list.


TOP 10 - The Most Stable Currencies in the World in 2025

 

[SouthAussie]

Can Trump impose his will on the world via tariffs?

Quote:
a. This presumes that countries must sell to the States.
b. The world could .... agree to create a new reserve currency and a new international economic architecture.
c. There is a little thing like democratic accountability .....
d. ..... Effectively abandoning economic control of their economies to the US is something very few states are going to do.
e. This whole scheme would require that the world trust Trump's USA.

From point (e) backwards, none of this is viable.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

From what I have seen, the US has always had a tendency towards protectionistism which protects certain inefficient or outdated industries. Historically this has been steel, largely because of the unionisation of that industry, which has meant US steel production has become increasingly uncompetitive over many decades. Foreign steel is cheaper and often higher quality (except the crap which comes from China) than domestic steel, but a tariff wall ensures that it can't be imported except at a price which exceeds that of domestic steel. While protecting US jobs, it ensures that the US consumer pays much more than necessary for steel products such as appliances and vehicles.

The other instance which I have only recently become aware of relates to trucks. US regulations do not allow the import of foreign trucks under 25 years old. This means that US-built trucks are decades behind those built by European and Japanese companies in terms of technology, driver and other road-user safety, fuel efficiency, design and pretty much everything else because there is no pressure on them to innovate and compete. There's an interesting YouTube channel by Bruce Wilson (Bruce Wilson), a US former trucker who managed to get a brand new Scania into the US as a demo vehicle, highlighting the differences between it and trucks still being built in the US. It's worth watching a few of his videos, especially those in which US truckers are given chance to test drive the Scania, and listening to their reactions.

cool channel. Thanks

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Is there a group called "almost the rest of the world"
If not it seems that's the way it's going.

 

[Trooper]

Can Trump impose his will on the world via tariffs?

Quote:
a. This presumes that countries must sell to the States.
b. The world could .... agree to create a new reserve currency and a new international economic architecture.
c. There is a little thing like democratic accountability .....
d. ..... Effectively abandoning economic control of their economies to the US is something very few states are going to do.
e. This whole scheme would require that the world trust Trump's USA.

From point (e) backwards, none of this is viable.

Maybe the Brits.... they are a desperate bunch, a trading nation with no place to trade with... Trump and Putin have the Brits right where they want them .. out in the cold, scrambling to conclude a trade deal with ANYONE, anywhere, they were over the moon when Australia offered to export beef, the problem was , Boris Johnson could not quite understand the process, and signed off on a deal that meant the Brits bought and paid for, the tails, hide, and bone of the beef, ( top price, too!! ) as well as the roasts and steaks.. Not Britains finest moment, actually.. The Australians managed to keep a straight face at the signing of the contract, how I do not know..

 

[nhmemorymaker]

respectfully, i don’t think it would be colonisation to decide to join the european union. being invaded by another country against your will is a whole different story.

@otto kamala did react, not so long ago! i will see if i can find a source. to be honest i wouldn’t have blamed her if she didn’t. she predicted this would happen, and too many people still voted for it to happen, i don’t think anyone can expect from her that she will now try to save the situation when she has done what she can to provide a better alternative.

eta source:

Kamala Harris On Trump: 'I'm Not Gonna Say I Told You So'

The former vice president spoke at the Leading Women Defined Summit in California on Thursday.

www.huffpost.com

How Kamala Harris inspired 350k reactions with speech

Kamala Harris inspires social media reactions after calling on Americans to resist intimidation and stand up to unconstitutional threats during women's summit.

rollingout.com

Thanks for this article on Kamala Harris.... I saved it.... because there appears to be rich content that needs to be absorbed..... I certainly hope she has a second life. She got screwed in a number of ways.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Canada could become , like Norway, like Denmark, like Belgium.. like 27 other nations, including France and Germany.... a member of the EEA

All 27 countries are also members of the EU... Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway and the only countries in the EEA that are not in the EU.

The EU countries Cyprus and Ireland are not part of the Schengen area. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area but are not EU member states.

Then there are the EU candidate countries who wish to join the EU,.....Bosnia/Herzegovinia , Albania, Montenegro, Moldovia, Georgia, North Macedonia.. Serbia, Ukraine, and Turkiye.,. Kossova wishes to be included but does not meet the criteria.

quick explanation of what is an EEA country..

The EU countries Cyprus and Ireland are not part of the Schengen area. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are in the Schengen area but are not EU member states.
The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market.

Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals.

The European Union (EU) is an economic and political union of 27 countries. It operates an internal (or single) market which allows free movement of goods, capital, services and people between member states.

What does Schengen mean??

The Schengen area comprises 29 countries, including 25 EU member states, where citizens can travel freely without border controls. The other four non-EU countries in the Schengen area are Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.

So Canada joining the EEA would be quite the boost to it's economy, obviously, a bigger market, a supremely synchronised customs process, and access to the entire European rail system for transporting cargo. One of the greatest benefits to Canada would be they would not be a target of Donald Trump, and that might be worth it , in the end.. You can see how that would appeal .

Really hope we get various Canadian responses to this...........

 

[Yellowbelly]

Now why do we think that Elon Musk might have just posted a video of Milton Friedman using the example of a pencil to highlight the importance of free trade? For all his DOGE-yness, Musk does understand how international trade works, as, I think, does Scott Bessent, who is also apparently looking for a way off the Trump autarky train.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1909169096391811304

 

[Lyanna]

Trump tariffs latest: FTSE 100 and global stock markets plummet

Stock markets plummeted around the world after Donald Trump warned foreign governments they would have to pay “a lot of money” to lift sweeping tariffs.

www.telegraph.co.uk