Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Lalalacasbah]

I know the witness got a "bullied" impression from them, but I don't know that that gels with what has been presented about their life in Port Alberni.

If anything, Bryer seems like he had a tendency to bully people himself, and even when he creeped people out, their reactions seems to have been to ignore him/avoid him rather than bully him.

Kam was described as not having lots of friends, but it seems like he was well-liked in general by his friends and acquaintances and not regarded as an outcast weirdo by the community at large.

I'm wondering if being on the run was what was bullying them, if that makes sense--stressing them out and making them give off that vibe more than they ordinarily would.

Edited to add: I think they both (and especially BS) had a tendency to present differently to an adult, which they certainly would have considered the witness, rather than a peer. Even though Bryer was frequently awful to his peers and had a tense relationship with some of his relatives, most of his interactions with adults were apparently polite.

Good points! Maybe not bullied but resentful maybe? Personally, I've always been interested and like fringe people but there's a difference between choosing to be on the fringe and ostracized and on the fringe if that makes sense.

I had a creepy encounter at my work place years ago where a young guy (another employee from another department) boldly stared at my chest in a coffee line up. I asked him if he had a problem - he was so cocky, just smiled and said no and kept staring! I was shocked and looked around to see if anyone else was hearing/seeing this interaction. It made me squirm and he totally enjoyed that, he had complete nerve. Later that night he sauntered past my work area (my area was on my uniform in the coffee line up) and harassed me, it was so creepy as I was working alone except for another girl in a different area in the back. She came out after I told her and he kept strolling in and out and didn't even flinch and wasn't intimidated. I filed a complaint with security and he had a few apparently. I often wonder if these personality types are harmless or time bombs!

When I hear about BS, I think of my encounter with that guy (who was a skinny scrawny little guy)... nervy and relished in making people unnerved.

 

[Kubirai]

That would be like camping with families. Was that their thing, or would they choose a pullout?

Lucas would have chosen first pullout with a view, but Chynna probably wanted a site with toilet and water supply.

 

[Optics]

He was on Sm boasting and swearing and going on for weeks now. I know people in Cold Lake. Embellishing as he goes lol. It is all moot now anyway.

This I believe Tarika.

 

[Schmoosh]

Given their direction when they were found, they were heading back towards Sundance, The SAR spokesperson said it looked like they gave it up and the remaining question was homicide and suicide.

If they had a 22, how hard is it to commit suicide with a 22 rifle?

I'm not following you. How does a dead body tell you that?

 

[scrappinkat]

They left on July 13. The suspects left on July 12. I'm not going to look for the link right now, but it's out there, and linked here in earlier discussions.

It’s another one of those variations that seems common when different newspapers print the stories. In some the ranch owner says they left the 12th, in other its stated the 13th. Either way the Pink Mountain Camping seems highly unlikely. I guess if Fowler and Deese left Hudson’s Hope on the 13th they stayed somewhere around Fort Nelson after the gas station visit at 7:30pm.

 

[MassGuy]

Given their direction when they were found, they were heading back towards Sundance, The SAR spokesperson said it looked like they gave it up and the remaining question was homicide and suicide.

If they had a 22, how hard is it to commit suicide with a 22 rifle?

Not hard. You’d just want to make sure you aim well, because it’s a small caliber round.

A shotgun would be a hell of a lot messier, but more effective.

 

[Iwondertoo]

A lot to unpack in all the recent updates and threads. Now that the unease is laid to rest of them still being alive and out there, my heart aches for every one involved, the victims & their families, BS and KM, and their families too.

To know your son/brother/grandson/nephew committed heinous acts and you didnt see it coming leaves a lot for their families to sift through and try to reason with. They will also be forever scarred from this situation and it will be a long time before they can return to any semblance of normalcy.

I am sure LE will eventually shed light onto how and why this happened, as much as they are able to share with the public, which will not be every thing.

The real take away from this for me is that hindsight is a *****, but how does anyone think these kind of things would be acted out by their loved one?

Whatever led up to the crimes, I think these were 2 young men who made some rash decisions for whatever reason, got incredibly out of their depth and just continued to make poor decisions as they panicked and saw no way out. Their bodies were found 8km from the burnt out RAV4, which is around a 2 hour walk, probably more based on the area they were in.

They probably hiked there, exhausted and just gave up on running, and ended their own internal battles at the same time. Really, they had to realize that if caught their next home would be prison and I suppose to them, death was a better alternative.


I in no way excuse any of their terrible choices over the last few weeks, but I do have sympathy for undiagnosed mental health problems and a lack of resources to remedy failing minds/lost souls.

A lot of families were torn apart during this entire ordeal. I particularly feel sad for KMs sister, as before his facebook was shut down the only posts visible to the public were ones where she had obviously gone onto his facebook and updated it with silly things like "(her name) is the best sister ever!!!" Etc.

Terrible all around. RIP to that beautiful couple and to that kindly looking botanist. I am a botanist as well so that one particularly hit close to home.

+1 with what Tarika said...Awesome post.

 

[otto]

No it took the Germans 1/2 hr to walk 500 m so it would have taken them 1 hr to do 1 km (whereas in the clear one might do 5 km/hr or 1 km in 12 minutes)

They were found in the thick bush heading towards Sundance.

An item was left on the shore 1km from where they were found. They were walking one kilometre per hour?

They could follow Sundance Creek from the car to the river. They could probably walk the shore for a few kilometres, or they took a boat. Could they get back to Sundance without a boat?

If their personal items were 9 km from the car, that means they walked 4.5 hours.

Sundance Creek

 

[FactFinder3000]

Given their direction when they were found, they were heading back towards Sundance, The SAR spokesperson said it looked like they gave it up and the remaining question was homicide and suicide.

I seem to have missed something. Can you point me toward what this is referring to?

I've been considering this issue at length. I'm wondering what the possibility is that their stuff washed ashore at the 9km mark. Maybe they never even made it that far.

 

[Zella]

Good points! Maybe not bullied but resentful maybe? Personally, I've always been interested and like fringe people but there's a difference between choosing to be on the fringe and ostracized and on the fringe if that makes sense.

SBM Yeah I'm probably more on the oddball fringe range than not and so are most of my friends. LOL

But I do distinguish between people who are unfairly singled out and ostracized or picked on just for marching to the beat of their own drum or being different and those who are singled out or ostracized because their behavior is unacceptable. If BS was just kind of a goofy, weird kid and the others didn't like him for that, that would be one thing.

But he was ostracized because he was making violent threats and bragging about Nazis. He brought that on himself. Granted, he probably had some deeper psychological issues that was fueling that behavior that needed to be addressed, but I don't blame any of friends or acquaintances for bailing on him over it.

I'm sure he noticed his friend circle shrinking and was hurt by it, but I also suspect he well knew that his behavior was offensive and kind of enjoyed getting a rise out of people.

 

[MassGuy]

Damnit @otto

I was looking up statistics on firearm type and suicide, and happened upon a website that actually gives advice as to the best methods.

“...has a library of information on methods to commit suicide, including dangers of individual methods and their reliability.”

Oh joy

I can’t believe this exist.

 

[otto]

I'm not following you. How does a dead body tell you that?

Tell me what?

 

[otto]

Not hard. You’d just want to make sure you aim well, because it’s a small caliber round.

A shotgun would be a hell of a lot messier, but more effective.

Long arms, or just aim for the head?

 

[Zella]

Long arms, or just aim for the head?

Sorry for being gruesome but for a shotgun, one would probably need to use one's toe to fire the trigger. Or at least that is what has happened in cases I know about.

 

[SnooperDuper]

They were found in the thick bush heading towards Sundance.

An item was left on the shore 1km from where they were found. They were walking one kilometre per hour?

They could follow Sundance Creek from the car to the river. They could probably walk the shore for a few kilometres, or they took a boat. Could they get back to Sundance without a boat?

If their personal items were 9 km from the car, that means they walked 4.5 hours.

Sundance Creek

My theory is that they burned the RAV4 and went briefly into Sundance on foot to grab a boat and travel down Sundance Creek to the Nelson, then traveled some distance down the Nelson River to before the rapids and pulled to shore.

They took the gun but no other gear and pushed the boat back into the river where it went over the Limestone Rapids and spilled all the personal items and badly damaged the boat. These items washed up at various points downstream. It's the same pattern of destroying both their conveyance and all the gear in it, for the third and final time.

They scrambled up the sandy cliffs leaving a clear trail for LE to find once LE began looking for it. They beat their way 1 km into the bush and put the gun to work, leaving both dead.

 

[MassGuy]

Long arms, or just aim for the head?

Well the man who runs this suicide site, says that it’s best to use a shotgun.

The most popular location is the temple.

The second most popular location is the mouth, which probably makes the most sense logistically, if they used a rifle.

You probably wouldn’t need long arms, unless the rifle is unusually long.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Long arms, or just aim for the head?

Goodness!

 

[Jen-Knee]

That would be like camping with families. Was that their thing, or would they choose a pullout?

They seemed like very chill people. It might depend on how much money they had on them, and how they were feeling when they decided to camp. There's always the possibility that they knew of an unofficial campground along their route as well. I know as a kid whenever we went camping in different parts of BC we never stayed at actual campgrounds, and the places we did go were usually fairly packed with young (early to mid 20's) groups of people.

 

[otto]

I seem to have missed something. Can you point me toward what this is referring to?

I've been considering this issue at length. I'm wondering what the possibility is that their stuff washed ashore at the 9km mark. Maybe they never even made it that far.

The car is burned near the road where Sundance Creek goes under the culvert and ends up at the Nelson River. Apparently no one searched the creek even though it was one exit route from the car.

The boat was found on Aug 2, 13 km from the car. Personal belongings were found 9 km from the car. Bodies were found 8 km from the car.

It does not look like anything, other than the boat, washed ashore. The only other item that was found was a red and white water jug. If that was found at 9 km from the car, and they left the water behind, then it means they are no longer trying to survive.

Their bodies were found between their personal items and the burned car.

 

[LoisLane]

Hey everyone! Any new news today? I feel like I missed something but this thread is overwhelmingly long.

Did the Australia 60 minutes air tonight?