Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Errrr]

Lol oh I hope you’re not tagged on a list now. I’m joking btw. Sometimes when I’m typing things in to google search I have brief qualms that I’m going to have a hard time explaining them if I’m ever asked.

LOL. Have you ever googled some strange term only to discover it’s some skanky thing so you get filthy smut splattered over your screen forever more?

 

[CinNC]

To me, it doesn't sound like B was interested in politics at all. At least, not mainstream politics as most of us think about it (Democrats, Republicans, election projections, economics, et al). I think it was some sort of "code" or loosely termed alternative to talking about Nazis and all of the awful connotations that most of us associate with them.

 

[Moriarty]

Just as an FYI with regards to the gun question and where KM and BS may have acquired their weapons, we have a news clipping service at my work for relevant stories to us, and this popped up in today's news:

Gun traffickers seeking big city cover drawn to Edmonton: ALERT

A couple of quotations that jumped out at me, including the notion that illegal gun dealers might not necessarily be gangbangers or organized crime, but just someone with a valid license who needs some money, these so-called straw purchasers. Also, I found interesting the reference to the increased seizure of airsoft guns used in intimidation.

The figure of 1,500 guns seized in Edmonton over the last three years might shock some fellow Canadians who think guns are rare here.

I wonder how hard it would be to learn of one of these straw purchasers in the greater Vancouver area and swing by with my camper truck and a load of cash as I get off the ferry from the island and swing north up the Trans-Canada and highway 97...?

 

[OldFarmer]

Not necessarily. Witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified during their escape.

Which witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified? I've heard that they seemed nervous, but I'm not familiar with the ones that say they seemed terrified.

 

[Zella]

Which witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified? I've heard that they seemed nervous, but I'm not familiar with the ones that say they seemed terrified.

I can't answer for NJSleuth, but I know some of the descriptions of Bryer from the constables and the guy who pulled them out of the mud seemed to go beyond nervous. On my phone and can't link, but the constable said he was "looking all paranoid" and the mud guy said Bryer looked like he was especially distraught, can't remember his exact wording.

I don't know that I would call them terrified, but the gist I got was Kam came across as garden-variety nervous to some of the witnesses and Bryer seemed to be really freaking out. MOO

 

[Tilly23]

I know Bryer worked there a short time (two paychecks was that the comment??), but do we know how long Kam worked there? Was wondering if he was there first after graduating and then got Bryer a job there with him once he graduated? Or did they start same time?

You know, I've wondered about this, too. Especially since Bryer's neighbor's mom mentioned seeing Kam all the time at WM as an employee. Would you really remember an employee who's only been there about a month that well, even if he was helpful, which she said he was, compared to one who's been there for several months?

Bryer's dad is the source for them both working there for 5 weeks. I think it's true Bryer was there for only 5 weeks, but it is certainly possible Kam was there longer, especially since he graduated the year before, and that Bryer's dad just wasn't aware of this fact. It would be less weird for Kam to have been working while Bryer was finishing school rather than spending a whole year apparently doing nothing, and it certainly may have been easier for them to get the same shifts if Kam had been there awhile and could pull strings. Might also explain where some of the money that Bryer's great-uncle referenced they left with came from.

Actually, some news articles mention them working there for several months, so maybe they did start at different times, and people are just assuming their time was the same, whether it was months or weeks. Hmm.

Edited to add source for neighbor's mom's statement: RCMP continue search for suspects in three B.C. slayings

This makes sense and could explain the discrepancies. I bet Kam actually was there for several months.

Port Alberni Walmart closes at 11 pm.
Walmart Port Alberni Supercentre | Port Alberni, British Columbia

I thought AS said the boys were working night shifts together?
From this July 22nd article in the Victoria Times-Colonist:
RCMP not ruling out link between missing Alberni teens, body found near truck, double slaying

"Alan Schmegelsky, Bryer’s father, said the pair, best friends since elementary school, had been working night shifts at Walmart in Port Alberni to save money for the trip."​

Here is a current job posting for "Overnight Fulfillment Associate" at the Port Alberni Walmart.
Job Search Welcome | Walmart
The hours are 11 pm to 7 am.

It does not seem possible that the neighbour's mom would have seen KM during the overnight shift. So, perhaps KM did work at the store longer than BS, with an earlier position during hours the store was open? Or maybe he also picked up some day shifts, as the neighbour's mom seems to think he helped her in the store "about a month ago" in the July 23 article linked above by Zella.

MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Which witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified? I've heard that they seemed nervous, but I'm not familiar with the ones that say they seemed terrified.

I can't answer for NJSleuth, but I know some of the descriptions of Bryer from the constables and the guy who pulled them out of the mud seemed to go beyond nervous. On my phone and can't link, but the constable said he was "looking all paranoid" and the mud guy said Bryer looked like he was especially distraught, can't remember his exact wording.

I don't know that I would call them terrified, but the gist I got was Kam came across as garden-variety nervous to some of the witnesses and Bryer seemed to be really freaking out. MOO

Yeah basically what Zella said, but also keep in mind that was them actively trying to act like "everything is fine, nothing to see here," so, internally, they probably were terrified.

Also the mud guy described Bryer as "at the end of his rope."

 

[scrappinkat]

Question for a SPS player: Do players typically use hand guns or long guns? I don't know anything about guns, except I don't like them.

It seems to me that the skill, stance, and recoil etc would be completely different with a hand gun or rifle IRL.

I've just imagined that the players in the game use machine guns and hold their finger on a button and spray any and everything with bullets. Is it too much to think they got their hands on machines guns or something that shoots a lot of bullets? That might explain all the evidence markers on the scenes.

Not enough casings to be plausible, Plus victims would have been a bloody mess, including area around people.

 

[Zella]

Port Alberni Walmart closes at 11 pm.
Walmart Port Alberni Supercentre | Port Alberni, British Columbia

I thought AS said the boys were working night shifts together?
From this July 22nd article in the Victoria Times-Colonist:
RCMP not ruling out link between missing Alberni teens, body found near truck, double slaying

"Alan Schmegelsky, Bryer’s father, said the pair, best friends since elementary school, had been working night shifts at Walmart in Port Alberni to save money for the trip."​

Here is a current job posting for "Overnight Fulfillment Associate" at the Port Alberni Walmart.
Job Search Welcome | Walmart
The hours are 11 pm to 7 am.

It does not seem possible that the neighbour's mom would have seen KM during the overnight shift. So, perhaps KM did work at the store longer than BS, with an earlier position during hours the store was open? Or maybe he also picked up some day shifts, as the neighbour's mom seems to think he helped her in the store "about a month ago" in the July 23 article linked above by Zella.

MOO

That's very interesting! I have seen a news article, will have to find later, that claimed 11 PM-7 am shifts for them, but they didn't cite a source for that info.

 

[Zella]

Something else just dawned on me. I don't think witnesses said these 2 looked nervous until after they were in the Rav 4. I suspect they were chilling like villains and even feeling a little smug if they thought they got away with the first set of murders. But as requests for dash cam footage came through, I think they panicked.

I think driving a stolen car also made them more nervous.

I don't think they were rocket scientists, but I also don't think they were complete idiots. I suspect they were of about average intelligence but with little grounding in reality and lacking common sense. But I think they still knew enough to know that they couldn't drive that stolen car forever. Hence, the nervousness and "looking all paranoid."

MOO

 

[scrappinkat]

LOL. Have you ever googled some strange term only to discover it’s some skanky thing so you get filthy smut splattered over your screen forever more?

Lol the joys of the net eh. Since the kids used the computer I had the safe search parameters set pretty high, didn’t want that kind of scenario happening to them

 

[Esprite]

Their erratic behaviour might seem more plausible if one or both were psychopaths, who often display a charming exterior to others, while plotting or carrying out cold-blooded deeds. I agree that the entire scenario was probably like a video game to them, perhaps including a possible suicide pact at the very end of the game.

 

[OldFarmer]

Yeah basically what Zella said, but also keep in mind that was them actively trying to act like "everything is fine, nothing to see here," so, internally, they probably were terrified.

Also the mud guy described Bryer as "at the end of his rope."

Ah, thank you - so witness accounts do say they seem nervous, not terrified. I didn’t miss anything then. We’ve seen the same accounts, I guess we’re just interpreting them differently. Human nature - we interpret events based on our own internal theories, complex creatures that we are.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Something else just dawned on me. I don't think witnesses said these 2 looked nervous until after they were in the Rav 4. I suspect they were chilling like villains and even feeling a little smug if they thought they got away with the first set of murders. But as requests for dash cam footage came through, I think they panicked.

That's the scenario I've been thinking of too. Although I think they were kind of panicking the entire time, because it was a huge overreaction to a police request for possible witnesses, which would be standard procedure in a murder investigation. Like it was probably a "Do you think we got away with it? Do you think anyone saw? Are you sure you didn't see anyone drive by?" kind of thing, and then when they saw the billboards they immediately assumed someone witnessed them. It also explains why they hung around the general region for days afterwards instead of continuing north (which would have made more sense), because they wanted to see if anyone was onto them.

I don't think they were rocket scientists, but I also don't think they were complete idiots. I suspect they were of about average intelligence but with little grounding in reality and lacking common sense. But I think they still knew enough to know that they couldn't drive that stolen car forever. Hence, the nervousness and "looking all paranoid."

Yeah "idiots" is a bit of an exaggeration...I mean it more in the sense of "teenagers who don't know anything about the real world but think they do."

Their erratic behaviour might seem more plausible if one or both were psychopaths, who often display a charming exterior to others, while plotting or carrying out cold-blooded deeds. I agree that the entire scenario was probably like a video game to them, perhaps including a possible suicide pact at the very end of the game.

Maybe but I kind of doubt it, because there are so many signs that they let their emotions get in the way of common sense at many points during this murder odyssey. Psychopaths are usually better at getting away with it because they don't feel fear. Like if Ted Bundy got stuck in the mud, he would be friendly and charming and act like it was no big deal. That being said though, sociopathy is a spectrum. Did they have tendencies in that direction? I think you probably have to, in order to kill three people.

 

[CanadianMade]

Which witness accounts indicate that they seemed terrified? I've heard that they seemed nervous, but I'm not familiar with the ones that say they seemed terrified.

Almost all of the witness accounts have been reported differently in one way or another. One report says one thing and the next says the opposite, so either the media is incredibly confused or people have changed their stories for each interview. Hasn't been much help other than for those who want to focus only on certain reports to fit their own theory.
This whole thing has been a mess. I've given up on all media at this point. I'll read it, but the next article is completely different so I'm just waiting for the official RCMP report now.

 

[Optics]

If that were true, there would be none of the various accounts in the media of Kam being called a nice person who was a good friend.

Yet........"nice people" don't kill 3 people for no reason and run across the country.

 

[Zella]

Yet........"nice people" don't kill 3 people for no reason and run across the country.

Oh I don't disagree. But as I've said before, Kam seems to have a well-developed persona. A lot of people have said he was nice to them, and I'm sure he was. Doesn't mean he wasn't a murderer.

 

[Optics]

Also the mud guy described Bryer as "at the end of his rope."

The "mud guy" - meaning the man in Cold Lake who pulled them out had his story grow from the initial statement. It has been said he kept embellishing the encounter with each passing moment. The original statement was he pulled them out, the encounter was brief. I would not put weight into anything he says other than the initial statement.

 

[Optics]

Oh I don't disagree. But as I've said before, Kam seems to have a well-developed persona. A lot of people have said he was nice to them, and I'm sure he was. Doesn't mean he wasn't a murderer.

So here is the 'difficulty' I have with 'a lot of people have said he was nice'. The reality is there were a very very small amount of people who said that. Just as there were only a small few who said what they did about Bryer. Those in my view were the 10 seconds of fame people, who were only acquaintances or knew who they were by sight as compared to someone from the inner circle of friends. I feel there is a reason Kam's family went immediately silent and the mayor of the town kind of banned people from talking about the boys. That 'nice boy' took a legit vehicle and camper, burnt it, killed 3 people, stole a vehicle, carried at least 2 guns, and had some nice smarts in driving the Rav across country knowing it isn't owned by him or Bryer. Then cast the Rav aside like its some piece of garbage burnt it. That is how these two young men treated everything - with callous and likely no remorse.

 

[CanadianMade]

The "mud guy" - meaning the man in Cold Lake who pulled them out had his story grow from the initial statement. It has been said he kept embellishing the encounter with each passing moment. The original statement was he pulled them out, the encounter was brief. I would not put weight into anything he says other than the initial statement.

Honestly, as soon as he changed his story to include the sleeping bag(only after one had been spotted out near Gillam...one that RCMP hasn't even acknowledged), I stopped believing a word he says.