Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[otto]

Actually I doubt they recorded their suicides. The phone would have had to be in a waterproof enclosure to be protected from the elements. They didn't know how long it would be before their bodies would be found. So I doubt they just left it running.

I think recording death scenes is a bit gruesome. Besides, their phones were dead and silent after July 15, weren't they?

Did they have phones after that date, and what did they do with them - who did they connect with?

 

[Bluedaisy100]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> ... I think they intended to kill people to create a confrontation with the police. They chose their victims that couldn't harm them because they wanted to control how they died. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit for having a loose plan

 

[Optics]

otto said: ↑
RCMP need to be more accountable for responding to calls about stranded vehicles and bodies.

Imagine if RCMP had been on the ball and called in extras to shut down all highways leading to Liard Hot Spting at 5AM on July 15. The suspects would have been trapped in the area, and they would have been stopped driving Dyck's Rav4 before they left BC.

Instead, we had a silly show of military tanks in Gillam, long after the suspects were walking the Sundance Creek to their certain deaths. Even that was a farce. The vehicle was found next to the Sundance Creek and RCMP followed train tracks instead of the creek. Bunch of city slickers.

RCMP spent 4500 man hours to search 11,000 square kilometres of land, but they did not follow the creek next to the burned vehicle to the Nelson River until after the bodies were found.

Where were the local authorities? They would know the routes.

(this is more at @otto than Boxer) - Your comment makes no sense Otto. The fact is they did not die at 5am - they were killed hours before 5am. I don't know why you feel they weren't 'on the ball'. The RCMP physically takes 4 hours to get to the scene. (something we are all extremely aware of in terms of distances). When called to the scene all they know for Fact is '2 dead bodies have been found near a blue van' - they DO NOT know if its murder suicide or what. The couple were killed a few hours before because rigor mortis had set in. The murder suspects already had a 3 to 5 hour lead time to escape. Sorry, the RCMP are there to protect us all, but they aren't miracle workers - especially when its in a location such as terrain and remoteness in places like Northern BC. There is no "beam me up Scottie" to the crime scene in this situation.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think recording death scenes is a bit gruesome.

A bit? I mean, once you've killed three people, filming your and your BFF's gunshot suicide is pretty tame.

Besides, their phones were dead and silent after July 15, weren't they?

Did they have phones after that date, and what did they do with them - who did they connect with?

As far as we know. From the wording of the articles, it indicates that they recorded the videos in the woods shortly before killing themselves. However, that doesn't mean that their phones actually had service or that they sent or received any calls. It is highly unlikely that they had service for much of their trip, from what I can gather. As far as we know, there is no evidence that they used their phones for the purposes of calling, texting, etc. after the murders.

 

[NJSleuth91]

... I think they intended to kill people to create a confrontation with the police. They chose their victims that couldn't harm them because they wanted to control how they died. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit for having a loose plan

Then why didn't they make themselves easier for the police to find? If the goal was a confrontation with the police they would have set up some kind of ambush a short distance into the woods, not gone into a nearly impassable part of the terrain, likely until they were in a weakened state and physically couldn't go any further according to the searchers.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

<modsnip: quoted post was remvoed> ... curious like everyone about motive. Was it a mere opportunity of vulnerable victims or did they resent them in some form? There could have been more victims is why I ask.

I don't think LD would've been murdered if L&C weren't. Which is the ongoing question... were L&C murdered because of something said or done that provoked the losers in an interaction with B&K or just happened upon as sitting ducks.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Then why didn't they make themselves easier for the police to find? If the goal was a confrontation with the police they would have set up some kind of ambush a short distance into the woods, not gone into a nearly impassable part of the terrain, likely until they were in a weakened state and physically couldn't go any further according to the searchers.

You make a good point. I think they didn't anticipate that the police had a nonconfrontation policy. They didn't directly expose their people, but relied on drones and helicopters to look for them and primarily protected the residents. That's why the police didn't thoroughly collect evidence around the Rav4 until after the bodies were found.

 

[NJSleuth91]

You make a good point. I think they didn't anticipate that the police had a nonconfrontation policy. They didn't directly expose their people, but relied on drones and helicopters to look for them and primarily protected the residents. That's why the police didn't thoroughly collect evidence around the Rav4 until after the bodies were found.

The police may have a nonconfrontation policy but they're going to fire back if fired upon. Also, still doesn't explain why they went so far into the woods. I just don't see it that suicide by cop was the end goal.

 

[Zella]

I think they wanted to stay as far away from police as possible, and suicide by their own hand was, if not the end-game from the beginning, the only acceptable option for them once they realized there was no going home and pretending like nothing happened and that the "long joy-ride" couldn't be indefinite.

 

[scrappinkat]

I think they wanted to stay as far away from police as possible, and suicide by their own hand was, if not the end-game from the beginning, the only acceptable option for them once they realized there was no going home and pretending like nothing happened and that the "long joy-ride" couldn't be indefinite.

Being from Port Alberni maybe they became overwhelmed with homesickness for everything they left behind and at the very least wanted to be able to look out over a body of water, almost like they might have done so at home, before they died.

One of the non-confirmed reports after the RAV4 was found burning was of two boys with backpacks hitching and one of the boys was limping. Maybe that’s why they made their way to the river?

 

[ErinBat]

I don’t think they knew that they certainly would die, or how they were going to die as much as perhaps decided it was the inevitability. It was a chase and they ran out of ways to carry it on when they got stuck in the unforgiving wilderness of Manitoba.

 

[Optics]

Then why didn't they make themselves easier for the police to find? If the goal was a confrontation with the police they would have set up some kind of ambush a short distance into the woods, not gone into a nearly impassable part of the terrain, likely until they were in a weakened state and physically couldn't go any further according to the searchers.

Because Nothing in their whole process made it 'easier' , why stop at the end? That would mean defeat and weakness in their minds.

 

[Zella]

Being from Port Alberni maybe they became overwhelmed with homesickness for everything they left behind and at the very least wanted to be able to look out over a body of water, almost like they might have done so at home, before they died.

One of the non-confirmed reports after the RAV4 was found burning was of two boys with backpacks hitching and one of the boys was limping. Maybe that’s why they made their way to the river?

That's a good point! I get the impression they probably didn't like PA when they lived there--not uncommon with teens from smaller towns--but after a few days on the run, knowing they were cornered and the end was nigh, they probably looked back on home--and their families--much more nostalgically than they would have ordinarily. MOO

Edited to add: Looking at water a final time might have been especially appealing to Kam since he was raised on a lake.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Being from Port Alberni maybe they became overwhelmed with homesickness for everything they left behind and at the very least wanted to be able to look out over a body of water, almost like they might have done so at home, before they died.

The fact that they left a goodbye message indicates to me that they probably did miss what they left behind, and probably regretted what they did. A lot of time in the woods to think about their actions and decisions. JMO.

One of the non-confirmed reports after the RAV4 was found burning was of two boys with backpacks hitching and one of the boys was limping. Maybe that’s why they made their way to the river?

Wasn't that from the York Landing false sighting?

 

[NJSleuth91]

Because Nothing in their whole process made it 'easier' , why stop at the end? That would mean defeat and weakness in their minds.

Sorry, but I just don't see it.

That's a good point! I get the impression they probably didn't like PA when they lived there--not uncommon with teens from smaller towns--but after a few days on the run, knowing they were cornered and the end was nigh, they probably looked back on home--and their families--much more nostalgically than they would have ordinarily. MOO

If only they had learned to appreciate all the good they had in their lives (which includes their friendship with each other) before they went out and gunned down innocent people.

 

[scrappinkat]

You make a good point. I think they didn't anticipate that the police had a nonconfrontation policy. They didn't directly expose their people, but relied on drones and helicopters to look for them and primarily protected the residents. That's why the police didn't thoroughly collect evidence around the Rav4 until after the bodies were found.

Someone shared photos of the burnt out RAV4 earlier today. Looks like it was towed there and left, with a blue bag of ash and garbage sitting open inside. It’s a very stark contrast to how thoroughly the burnt out Dodge looked to be processed. Even if it’s been processed for evidence I’m a little surprised at how untouched it looks and out in the elements everything is.

 

[NJSleuth91]

double post DBM

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Well, if there is in fact a "goodbye" video I'd like to know if any remorse was expressed towards their victim's and victim's families and it wasn't all about them and their last wishes which would seem self-indulgent and totally selfish.

Not sure remorse would even help the families heal or not but if true, authentic remorse was expressed that would be better than none.

 

[scrappinkat]

Wasn't that from the York Landing false sighting?

It was before that. The same night there was reports of the two backpacks near the tracks and then when that person went back to double check the backpacks were gone. Before that sighting there was a person who said they saw a person hitching but then they realized there was another person and that one was limping.

 

[scrappinkat]

Now there’s apparently someone who says they saw them buying a (just one despite being found with two) rifle? Why on earth was this talked about now, and not like day two or three??? Can’t tell me that people on Port Alberni were unaware of the news story.

https://www.vancouverislandfreedail...left-cellphone-video-before-they-died-family/