Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[Zella]

How long is the firearms safety course in Canada? I sat through an all-day firearms safety class on a Saturday several years ago here in the U.S. where I live to get a hunting license that I never used. Is it a multi-day affair or something that can be done in a weekend in Canada?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

So sounds like ONE hunting rifle purchased that we know of but wasn't there TWO guns found with their bodies. Did they have three guns or just two I wonder?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I am in the US and so very ignorant of what is needed to get a license in Canada, but if he did the class and paid the fees, what would there need to have been for them to not allow him the license? I see the person in the comments on the article talk about needing references. Who are you allowed to use for them and what would be the type of things they would ask? Basically we have hindsight, but if you take things away that we know that would be potential warning flags, what would there have been with him to not allow a PAL?

See above post..."there was a public post on his Instagram at the time, which was under his real name, with a gun in his mouth."

No it’s not like that. It’s just the person asking to hold/look at and then buy the rifle that needs to have a valid PAL. It is allowable to have friends with you that don't have PAL.

I see. I have words about that too which I will not say.

Bryer in particular had spoken graphically about suicide for years. There is no way that Kam was not aware or not on board with that. They were always going to kill themselves. It was about how they would do it. They were beyond reasoning or feeling remorse for the pain they inflicted on others. JMO

Being suicidal usually isn't a constant thing. It comes and goes. Studies show most people come to the decision to kill themselves over a very short period of time (minutes or hours). I think they were definitely severely depressed, and suicidal to some extent, for years leading up to this. I think being severely depressed and suicidal definitely influenced their mindset and actions. But I don't think this whole thing was just some weird, elaborate planned suicide. If anything I would say it was more of a subconscious thing, like I was talking about in my post from yesterday, which pushed them in a certain direction.

 

[Zella]

So sounds like ONE hunting rifle purchased that we know of but wasn't there TWO guns found with their bodies. Did they have three guns or just two I wonder?

Yeah I'm wondering if there were multiple shopping trips and only one had a witness or maybe one was borrowed/taken without permission from someone else to go with the purchased one. I'm leaning toward both were purchased legally. May have even been purchased during this same trip. I don't know if that is allowable under Canadian law, but there's no guarantee the witness observed the entire exchange.

 

[scrappinkat]

I am in the US and so very ignorant of what is needed to get a license in Canada, but if he did the class and paid the fees, what would there need to have been for them to not allow him the license? I see the person in the comments on the article talk about needing references. Who are you allowed to use for them and what would be the type of things they would ask? Basically we have hindsight, but if you take things away that we know that would be potential warning flags, what would there have been with him to not allow a PAL?

After completing the required PAL safety courses he would have needed to have 2 (it might be three) personal references on his application, and they must have known the person applying for PAL for a good number of years . Their names, phone number, what kind of relation, how long they’ve known you and their signature are on the application. IF you have a spouse they sign, if you have had a recent break up they ask to contact the ex so that contact info is expected. When those references are contacted if any concerns are raised (or questions answered in a way that is not acceptable) the application will be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

How long is the firearms safety course in Canada? I sat through an all-day firearms safety class on a Saturday several years ago here in the U.S. where I live to get a hunting license that I never used. Is it a multi-day affair or something that can be done in a weekend in Canada?

I think it's two days in person according to my spouse who wanted to get his one time.

 

[Zella]

He would have needed to have 2 (it might be three) personal references on his application, and they must have known the person applying for PAL for a good number of years . Their names, phone number, what kind of relation, how long they’ve known you and their signature are on the application. IF you have a spouse they sign, if you have had a recent break up they ask to contact the ex. When those references are contacted if any concerns are raised (or questions answered in a way that is not acceptable) the application will be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

Thank you! That also suggests to me that Kam might have been the one with the license. I'd think he'd have an easier time producing references who could vouch for him in that way. MOO

 

[Zella]

I think it's two days in person according to my spouse who wanted to get his one time.

Okay thank you! That wouldn't be too onerous for these two to arrange, I'd think, if Bryer wanted to get his, too. I'd still be quite surprised if it were revealed it wasn't Kam with the PAL, though.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Thank you! That also suggests to me that Kam might have been the one with the license. I'd think he'd have an easier time producing references who could vouch for him in that way. MOO

I wonder if any of his family members were any of the references. (NOT blaming them in any way, obviously they had no idea he would go out and do this.) I hope not. They would be even more devastated.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah I'm wondering if there were multiple shopping trips and only one had a witness or maybe one was borrowed/taken without permission from someone else to go with the purchased one. I'm leaning toward both were purchased legally. May have even been purchased during this same trip. I don't know if that is allowable under Canadian law, but there's no guarantee the witness observed the entire exchange.

Me too. One hunting rifle and maybe two handguns. I'm blown away that is was probably done legally as well! I'm not sure why I'm surprised if it actually is legal, just seems so easy to go get I suppose.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He would have needed to have 2 (it might be three) personal references on his application, and they must have known the person applying for PAL for a good number of years . Their names, phone number, what kind of relation, how long they’ve known you and their signature are on the application. IF you have a spouse they sign, if you have had a recent break up they ask to contact the ex so that contact info is expected. When those references are contacted if any concerns are raised (or questions answered in a way that is not acceptable) the application will be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

So maybe it was even Kam's family that was a reference so that's why AS made that comment in a tone insinuating Kam's family when asked about the airsoft gun.

 

[Zella]

Well, so much for all of our theories about the shady underground world of Vancouver Island gun buying.

 

[KR72]

Weird how this case always seems to have no new info for days, then all of a sudden a bust of new info. There was the York Landing sighting (real or not), then nothing. Then the boat, a few days later the personal items, the RCMP conference regarding those items, then the bodies.

 

[elondriel]

He would have needed to have 2 (it might be three) personal references on his application, and they must have known the person applying for PAL for a good number of years . Their names, phone number, what kind of relation, how long they’ve known you and their signature are on the application. IF you have a spouse they sign, if you have had a recent break up they ask to contact the ex so that contact info is expected. When those references are contacted if any concerns are raised (or questions answered in a way that is not acceptable) the application will be flagged for deeper scrutiny.

WOW! I love the thoroughness of that. Thank you! I wish they would apply some of that for the FOID cards here.

To the comment about the Instagram post with Bryer, I assume that means they would check social media? Yes we know he made comments over the years, but those were more to peers it sounds like, so any adults likely did not know about it and he could have used them for a reference. Still though, I agree, likely it was Kam who had it.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Only 30 seconds of the video were released. We don't know what else they said or how long the video was. It's very possible the rest of the video contains a confession which is why it wasn't released because it's still being processed as evidence.

You're right. But what about the killing of the professor, the one we know the most about, makes you think they feel remorse? If they felt remorse after the first two murders, would they have killed the kindly professor so viciously? If they feel sorry at all, which I doubt, it's for themselves. But leaving the body on the side of the road like garbage just to steal his car doesn't seem remorseful. It was purposefully cruel. You are a kind person who wants them to be redeemable and fixable. Not everyone can be fixed. Not every death is preventable. I hope I'm wrong

 

[Zella]

Weird how this case always seems to have no new info for days, then all of a sudden a bust of new info. There was the York Landing sighting (real or not), then nothing. Then the boat, a few days later the personal items, the RCMP conference regarding those items, then the bodies.

That's why--as to paraphrase Michael Corleone--just when I thought I was out, it pulls me back in. Every time I think there's going to be a definite lull and no fresh revelations, a bombshell--or two--is sure to drop.

 

[scrappinkat]

How long is the firearms safety course in Canada? I sat through an all-day firearms safety class on a Saturday several years ago here in the U.S. where I live to get a hunting license that I never used. Is it a multi-day affair or something that can be done in a weekend in Canada?

The PAL safety course is usually two days for unrestricted. It includes a hands on section. (In my area it’s two 8 hour days). Then a test that needs 80% (might be (85%) to consider it passed. Then you can fill out and send away your application, once the course instructor fills out their portion of it.
It’s another full day of instruction if you want to upgrade to restricted (RPAL) And new set of forms.
In order to go hunting you must take a CORE course. Around here that’s offered over a span of 2-5 days and also has a test that needs 80% or better to pass. Once you get your core number you can get your hunter ID number and then buy hunting licenses and tags.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Okay thank you! That wouldn't be too onerous for these two to arrange, I'd think, if Bryer wanted to get his, too. I'd still be quite surprised if it were revealed it wasn't Kam with the PAL, though.

Well my spouse said classes in Victoria here are done at the Harley Davidson shop out in Langford (not sure this is current info as he looked into this a couple years ago). Maybe B&K wanted to feel like big boys... Have to wonder if they didn't kill the guy who got them out of the mud because he seemed "cool" and like a big boy with a big truck n'all. I'm being sarcastic a bit lol

 

[Zella]

You're right. But what about the killing of the professor, the one we know the most about, makes you think they feel remorse? If they felt remorse after the first two murders, would they have killed the kindly professor so viciously? If they feel sorry at all, which I doubt, it's for themselves. But leaving the body on the side of the road like garbage just to steal his car doesn't seem remorseful. It was purposefully cruel. You are a kind person who wants them to be redeemable and fixable. Not everyone can be fixed. Not every death is preventable. I hope I'm wrong

I think they may have confessed in that final video without expressing remorse. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Me too. One hunting rifle and maybe two handguns. I'm blown away that is was probably done legally as well! I'm not sure why I'm surprised if it actually is legal, just seems so easy to go get I suppose.

Well, so much for all of our theories about the shady underground world of Vancouver Island gun buying.

Literally none of us ever assumed they were purchased legally this entire time. I guess Kam did seem outwardly normal though. But like...wow, if this witness account is accurate. Really wasn't expecting that.

That's why--as to paraphrase Michael Corleone--just when I thought I was out, it pulls me back in. Every time I think there's going to be a definite lull and no fresh revelations, a bombshell--or two--is sure to drop.

I have literally had this exact thought.