Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[LoisLane]

Yes I understand the need for short and long versions, but the long version should contain all of the material.



He's been an advocate the entire time, IMO. Most people just didn't see it. In fact if he can keep it together I can see him actually getting into that in the future. It seems like he really wants some good to come of this situation, in terms of taking steps to prevent the next one. And his interviews are attention getting for sure -- that's how I got into this case.

I can see this too. It will take some time and effort but he could get there. It’s a tough subject with many opinions but he could make a difference for those left behind and bringing attention to taboo subjects could be a game changer.

Running to hide now

 

[NJSleuth91]

I can see this too. It will take some time and effort but he could get there. It’s a tough subject with many opinions but he could make a difference for those left behind and bringing attention to taboo subjects could be a game changer.

I think the public perception of him is improving also, if the comments I've seen are any indication. And I don't think someone has to have been a perfect person, in order to advocate for change.

Running to hide now

LOL same.

 

[zinny77]

If anything, I feel like his change of attitude came from whatever was on the last will and testament. I don't think it was any evidence. But maybe the tone of voice, the words his son and Kam used could have been enough to convince him maybe his son wasn't so innocent.

I actually wonder what part of what Al said is

- What he knows about the case
- him trying to defend Bryer from what he read online
- him still being at war with Bryer's mother and trying to show that he knew his son.
- him connecting the dots without any proper information

I think that Bryer was crying/saying he had no hope in the video and Alan reacted to that. I don't know that everything he said was right/true. But he asks good questions.

I am not sure that Alan saying that Bryer and Kam going on a killing spree because of their past means that he has proof that they did. It means that it is what he thinks. He might be right. But I am still not ruling out other explanations just because Al said so.

His interview does bring attention to the case and he makes a lot of good points. But it also makes Bryer and Kam look really bad. Each of his interviews from the begining have. And maybe he is 100% right. I realise that the chance mostly are that he is. But maybe he's not.

(Just to be clear, I am not saying they are innocent. I just see several theories that could explain what happened).

 

[1987]

with a non disclosure agreement can he even speak to a mental health professional about it if he needed to?

 

[sandbar]

The grief counsellor would have been provided after the bodies were found, particularly after he viewed the goodbye video, but perhaps before as well.

The AUS people could easily have provided a counselor for AS before beginning the 2-week interview process, so that they could appear to not be taking advantage of him, and that counselor became a "grief" counselor because AS was grieving.

 

[ErinBat]

I really do feel for not only AS but all the family of the victims in the way that the RCMP needlessly hides information. MO. We weren’t allowed to know how my 8 year old niece was murdered for 4 years, while they prepared for trial. It revictimized everyone finding out on the news once pretrial began. It seemed inconsequential to me as this wasn’t ever to be a jury trial and the same is true here considering there will never be a trial. I find the RCMP to be unacceptably secretive. JMO.

 

[Grouper]

with a non disclosure agreement can he even speak to a mental health professional about it if he needed to?

I want to say.... yes? These people are normally bound by law not to speak about what happens in the sessions, unless they believe the client might commit suicide or might harm someone else

 

[Jan424]

Kam seemed to be more socially savvy, although that could have been an acquired skill, but he was also described as shy, not particularly popular, and into "dorky" interests. Plus I mean...anyone who is best friends with Bryer has to be weird. I could see him being bullied too. In fact I would be very surprised if he wasn't. I think he and Bryer were so close because there were many times in their lives where their only friend was each other. JMO.

I'm going with the "socially savvy" part of Kam to be an acquired skill. From what we have heard (and it isn't much), he appeared to be outwardly pleasant. But we now know what you saw with him isn't exactly what you got.
I'm curious which "dorky" interests he had .... I only knew of him being an avid gamer and he camped in the woods, etc. I'm genuinely interested if you can elaborate more on that?
Agreed, Kam and Bryer were each other's only true friend ... whether they preferred it that way (my guess) or people instinctively didn't get close is another question. Maybe a little of both. MOO

 

[1987]

I want to say.... yes? These people are normally bound by law not to speak about what happens in the sessions, unless they believe the client might commit suicide or might harm someone else

I hope so. I'm just not sure one non disclosure covers or over rides another...seems could be a grey area.

 

[Jan424]

It seems that Kam acted as Bryer's protector, up to and including getting him out of PA.

Yes, definitely possible! I'm not totally convinced Kam was bullied, or maybe he was due to his friendship with Bryer ... so this alternate scenario between them also makes sense. IMO

 

[Jan424]

DBM

 

[Jan424]

As to AS, he doesn't seem confused to me.
And I do NOT see him as a poor, pathetically tragic figure, either.

SBM
Agree .... in that new video clip, I thought Alan had total clarity in what he was saying. And I don't see him as pathetic or tragic either .... I do feel sad for him trying to live the rest of his life with the epic nightmare he is now dealing with. I could not imagine being a parent and losing your kid (to suicide no less), after finding out he likely killed 3 people. That is one long, hard road to travel. So, in that regard, I do feel sad for him. MOO

 

[ktm44]

I want to say.... yes? These people are normally bound by law not to speak about what happens in the sessions, unless they believe the client might commit suicide or might harm someone else

Even if he were suicidal or there were concerns about self harm, a mental health professional would not need to discuss details of anything discussed in therapy. They would simply indicate that as a professional, they feel he may self harm or harm others.

.

 

[Grouper]

Even if he were suicidal or there were concerns about self harm, a mental health professional would not need to discuss details of anything discussed in therapy. They would simply indicate that as a professional, they feel he may self harm or harm others.

.

Yep, exactly. So in theory, Al could say anything he wants. Unless a clause in the NDA said he can’t do even that.

https://www.quora.com/If-I-signed-a...can-I-talk-about-my-job-to-my-psychotherapist

Kind of relevant. Ish.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm going with the "socially savvy" part of Kam to be an acquired skill. From what we have heard (and it isn't much), he appeared to be outwardly pleasant. But we now know what you saw with him isn't exactly what you got.

I disagree...I think Kam actually was a kind and pleasant person for most of his life. I've never seen anyone say anything to the contrary. I don't think he was secretly doing evil things the entire time behind peoples' backs, because there's no evidence of that, and I think something would have come out by now. However, people change, and sometimes they change for the worse. Something pushed him over the edge.

Same with Bryer -- although Bryer was troubled and had homicidal thoughts, having those thoughts and acting on them are very different things. There's no evidence that he ever was physically violent towards anyone before this. Something pushed him over the edge too. I've always said this whole thing was kind of a grasshopper to locust transformation for both of them.

But I do think probably in the past Kam was a lot more socially awkward and learned more social skills as he got older, but still felt socially inferior and had low self-esteem. That's just based on my experience with people I knew growing up. JMO.

I'm curious which "dorky" interests he had .... I only knew of him being an avid gamer and he camped in the woods, etc. I'm genuinely interested if you can elaborate more on that?

Well, I know he was also into anime. And I'm pretty sure he was also into Airsoft and survivalism, since Bryer was. BTW I'm not trying to put anyone on blast for having those interests or anything...go live your best life! I'm just saying that other teenagers might see them as dorky interests or something to make fun of.

Agreed, Kam and Bryer were each other's only true friend ... whether they preferred it that way (my guess) or people instinctively didn't get close is another question. Maybe a little of both. MOO

According to the latest interview, Bryer had a group of four close friends including Kam. And I've seen evidence suggesting that Kam had some other friends as well. I definitely don't think they were each others' only friend at this point, although it's likely they were at some point in the past. However I think they were definitely very emotionally codependent on each other and probably felt like nobody else truly understood them.

However, having a group of friends doesn't preclude one from being bullied or socially excluded in general.

Yes, definitely possible! I'm not totally convinced Kam was bullied, or maybe he was due to his friendship with Bryer ... so this alternate scenario between them also makes sense. IMO

I've thought he was the entire time. It just fits. When two people are that emotionally codependent on each other, it has to be for a reason. Something has to have happened to bond them together. Bryer was codependent on Kam because of his troubled home life and, as we've now found out, being bullied in school. It makes sense that he would depend on Kam that much because there were probably many times where he felt Kam was the only person who truly cared about him.

But Kam emotionally depended on Bryer too. There has to be a reason for that. Why would Kam be "inseparable" best friends for 13 or 14 years with the weird outcast kid with the dysfunctional family, if he didn't relate to that on some level? Obviously he related to Bryer's suicidal and homicidal thoughts, as we now know. He didn't seem to be bothered by Bryer's more troubled behavior at all. I think there's also some evidence indicating that Kam had very low self-esteem in general. I've been saying the whole time that Kam likely went through something too and that it was most likely bullying or even social exclusion. (And people argued with me when I said Bryer was probably bullied...turns out I was right....)

And BTW I'm now even more convinced that they never would have been captured alive. Bryer was bullied in school for years. Kam probably was too. If they went to prison it would just be more bullying for their entire lives, except on a much more violent and brutal scale and with nowhere to hide. We all know they would have fared very badly in prison. And, they would never see or talk to each other again. They never would have allowed that to happen. That's probably why they seemed so terrified when they were stuck in the mud and pulled over by the police.

I think they stayed alive for so long because that's how long it took them to go through with killing themselves -- they probably had to work up to it -- and maybe on some level they hadn't accepted the reality and were hoping they might be able to escape somehow.

 

[Jan424]

I disagree...I think Kam actually was a kind and pleasant person for most of his life. I've never seen anyone say anything to the contrary. I don't think he was secretly doing evil things the entire time behind peoples' backs, because there's no evidence of that, and I think something would have come out by now.
.

I never said Kam was ever anything but kind and pleasant. I also never thought he was doing evil things behind people's backs. But evidently there was so much brewing beneath his surface, otherwise, he wouldn't have killed 3 people and then commit suicide. There appeared to be alot about Kam that others didn't know about, except for Bryer.
But its just pure speculation on my part, we have so little information on Kam.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I never said Kam was ever anything but kind and pleasant. I also never thought he was doing evil things behind people's backs. But evidently there was so much brewing beneath his surface, otherwise, he wouldn't have killed 3 people and then commit suicide. There appeared to be alot about Kam that others didn't know about, except for Bryer.
But its just pure speculation on my part, we have so little information on Kam.

Yes, that is definitely true. I wouldn't be surprised if there were warning signs that were missed for Kam too, though. Probably not anywhere near as obvious as Bryer posting a picture with a gun in his mouth on social media, but still.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Bryer's dad has seen the picture (since now we know it's floating around out there) or at least heard about it, and that's part of what is fueling his anger. I can imagine it broke his heart if he did see it, since he got Bryer the Airsoft gun, and had no idea it would be used to send out a cry for help that nobody listened to.

 

[Jan424]

According to the latest interview, Bryer had a group of four close friends including Kam. And I've seen evidence suggesting that Kam had some other friends as well. I definitely don't think they were each others' only friend at this point, although it's likely they were at some point in the past. However I think they were definitely very emotionally codependent on each other and probably felt like nobody else truly understood them.

But Kam emotionally depended on Bryer too. There has to be a reason for that. Why would Kam be "inseparable" best friends for 13 or 14 years with the weird outcast kid with the dysfunctional family, if he didn't relate to that on some level? Obviously he related to Bryer's suicidal and homicidal thoughts, as we now know. He didn't seem to be bothered by Bryer's more troubled behavior at all. I think there's also some evidence indicating that Kam had very low self-esteem in general. I've been saying the whole time that Kam likely went through something too and that it was most likely bullying or even social exclusion. (And people argued with me when I said Bryer was probably bullied...turns out I was right....)

I think they stayed alive for so long because that's how long it took them to go through with killing themselves -- they probably had to work up to it -- and maybe on some level they hadn't accepted the reality and were hoping they might be able to escape somehow.

I could go either way with the other "close friends". I do think B&K were each other's closest friends at this point .... I'm not surprised they had other friends they hung out with. Of course, they did. But that's not the same as being close friends with someone.
I have always agreed that Kam had to be of like minds with Bryer, otherwise, he could have not tolerated Bryer's thoughts and behavior all of these years. He would have likely drifted from him, as I've said numerous times in my posts. Whether Kam was bullied ... it is entirely possible (Bryer's bullying is so easy for me to believe tho). Sigh .... I can speculate about Kam until the cows come home, but at this point it is just a guessing game.
Yes, I do agree they wanted to escape .... I think suicide was an acceptable plan B for them. They were never going to prison. All MOO

 

[Jan424]

Yes, that is definitely true. I wouldn't be surprised if there were warning signs that were missed for Kam too, though. Probably not anywhere near as obvious as Bryer posting a picture with a gun in his mouth on social media, but still.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Bryer's dad has seen the picture (since now we know it's floating around out there) or at least heard about it, and that's part of what is fueling his anger. I can imagine it broke his heart if he did see it, since he got Bryer the Airsoft gun, and had no idea it would be used to send out a cry for help that nobody listened to.

Good question on the warning signs for Kam .... I hope we do find out eventually. I would think there has to be something.
Do we have any thoughts of who took that picture of Bryer with the gun in his mouth? Wouldn't that be a difficult selfie? JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Couple of reminders folks ...

Numerous posts criticizing other members and/or their opinions have been removed. The thread is dedicated to discussion of the case itself, not discussion or criticism of other members for their posts or thoughts.

Also, please don't derail the thread with off topic discussion of whether true evil exists in the world or what the bible has to say about it, etc.