CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

[Xcharest]

That is not government SAR. As has been explained, it is a privately owned ski hill and a privately handled incident. The company that owns the ski hill and sent the bill dropped it when the individual proposed to make a safety video.

For what SAR is and isn’t, see the links in post 1034.

I think the rescue was done by Cypress, the owner of the area. Which would make it a private rescue, changing the situation of the person being rescued. There has been and probably will continue to be debate about if people being rescued should be charged within the SAR community.

 

[MassGuy]

Since Kam and Bryer were treated as missing persons themselves (I think) in the beginning of this story, might that not have been a factor? Could all of their victims have been trying to help them?

How did they get to be missing persons, I wonder. Their families knew they were leaving. I'm not getting that part of the story/timeline. Forgive me if I'm totally mistaken, the MSM isn't always reliable.

It was after their vehicle was found burned.

 

[Gina20]

Since Kam and Bryer were treated as missing persons themselves (I think) in the beginning of this story, might that not have been a factor? Could all of their victims have been trying to help them?

How did they get to be missing persons, I wonder. Their families knew they were leaving. I'm not getting that part of the story/timeline. Forgive me if I'm totally mistaken, the MSM isn't always reliable.

The police called them missing persons, and the media reported it. No one reported them missing to police, as far as we know. In retrospect, this seems to have been a strategy.

 

[Estrojane]

It sounded like he was estranged from his mother. He ran away and chose to live with his grandmother two years ago. Based on the letter his mother wrote I think there’s probably good reason for his choice.

I believe I read somewhere here on WS that BS's mother was afraid of his outbursts. Thus he was shipped off to grandma.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Forward-looking infrared - Wikipedia

It was so amazing watching FLIR during the Boston bomber case. When they finally found the remaining brother, the clips while watching live from the planes, were amazing. You could see so much and the perfect outline of the perp in the boat.

 

[Herat]

As a veteran advice-giver on TripAdvisor, I am always amazed that people really do not think about or investigate their potential destinations. If people I know are planning to drive to Alaska (through Canada) I like to remind them gently of what kind of road that may be. People from Los Angeles, for example, don't even want to drive the 5 north of the city because it's too "remote." Hahaha. We get several posts a week on the California forum about people wanting to drive from California to Alaska...in a rental car...in hump seasons...with no prior experience of such a trip. It looks great on a map, though. The same people think they're going to do Sequoia and Yosemite and drive from LA to SF all in one day.

I've likely enjoyed your TripAdvisor posts, especially if they are full of common sense and direct information! I follow California, Hawaii, and Road Trip forums. Amazing the absolute lack of planning out there, despite all that's available out there even with just a google search.

With this crime spree, I endorse trying to express the travel conditions, terrain, and climate to those, like myself, who haven't been in those very northern parts of the provinces and who haven't seen what it takes to function in those regions.
For example, it's one thing to look at a Google map and think of these two plotting a course from Ft. Nelson BC to Churchill, MB, but it's another thing entirely to plan out the segments of what you have to do.

I'm after the analysis of what their course was, how long did it take, if we know the gas tank capacity - how many gas fillups did they need? Stuff like that to try to put this deadly crime spree adventure together, and ultimately suss out how to bring it to a conclusion.

All the bickering over non-related issues just originates when WS enthusiasts have no new updates to chew over. I do find the Ignore feature is most helpful to keep me out of the fray (as best I can) and to get me back on track.

 

[missy1974]

someone just posted a link where someone was billed for SAR
a couple pages back

ETA: add link

Rescued Snowboarder Gives Back

He wasn't billed, they considered it but instead he raised money and did a video.

Snowboarder Sebastien Boucher has raised $10,000 for the search and rescue operation that saved his life after he boarded out of bounds on Cypress Mountain last year.

Initially, Cypress Mountain said it would charge Boucher the $10,000 for rescue costs, after three helicopters and dozens of volunteers were used to find him,

They had a change of heart, CBC reports, when Boucher volunteered to make an educational safety video about his experience.

Neverthless, Boucher wanted to give back to the people who organized the search and airlifted him down from the mountain after three days of no food or sleep. Boucher lost 18 pounds during his ordeal.


It was also a private company that was going to bill him (link found in the original link), and they were going to donate the money to a SAR organization.

Rescued Snowboarder Gives Back

The private company that operates the Cypress Mountain ski area on Vancouver’s North Shore says it plans to present a bill for $10,000 to a snowboarder who became lost after he went out of bounds Sunday, triggering a three-day search that ended with his rescue Tuesday night.

 

[jassange]

I've seen in Ontario: bear and wolf outside Collingwood (bears also spotted near London/Sarnia by others), Moose north west of Kingston and in Algonquin and apparently there was one near Sarnia (didn't see it), lots of bear scat off hwy 38 outside Kingston in a crown forest, tons of deer from Windsor to up north, wild turkeys all over the extreme south west of Ontario, bald eagles, coyotes and large paw prints believed to belong to a cougar outside London (sand trap at a golf course). A lot of the wild animals that are found in Northern Ontario are making their way south. More and more sightings are being reported. Wild boars apparently are in the area as well. People need to be aware of the dangers and what wild animals can be found in areas.

We definitely have dangerous animals up here but they don't really pose a threat. The biggest threat outside the city is mosquitoes and mosquitoes and mosquitoes and more mosquitoes...

 

[afitzy]

Since Kam and Bryer were treated as missing persons themselves (I think) in the beginning of this story, might that not have been a factor? Could all of their victims have been trying to help them?

How did they get to be missing persons, I wonder. Their families knew they were leaving. I'm not getting that part of the story/timeline. Forgive me if I'm totally mistaken, the MSM isn't always reliable.

Here is the original press release about the burning truck and the missing report:
RCMP in British Columbia - Update - Police seek public assistance in Dease Lake investigation

 

[SiciC]

My question was about the distance of 4 hours. I am unaware of anywhere in the lower 40 where a 4 hour response time is the norm.

I can't speak for all remote Canadian areas but I do have some experience with this. I grew up in a tiny oil town in northern Alberta, Rainbow Lake - boasts a population of around 900. Another end of the road sort of town. The nearest town is over two hours away. No hospital, no doctors in town, only a clinic with a few nurses. A small volunteer fire department is all there is for emergencies, and a very small handful of police officers worked out of the department. I literally only remember there being 2. As someone else said, they sort of had to be jack of all trade types. If you had an emergency situation, you had to go to High Level, the said closest town. Two hours away. If it was an especially serious medical problem, a medical helicopter would fly in. I remember the most common emergency situations would be hungry bears in town though... It's definitely a certain way of living to be in such isolation, and certainly not for everyone. I wouldn't be comfortable living there now that I'm a city dweller!

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic, just giving a little insight on how some people in these small towns in remote northern areas live.

 

[JuneBug67]

Yes, I understand it seeming crazy. There simply isn’t anywhere in the lower 48 nearly as far from greater population densities and the accompanying resources. A lot of Canadians would be surprised too (most never leaving the well-populated strip along our southern border).

You could roughly place the Dakotas + Nebraska in the space of northern BC under discussion here. There are maybe 3.5 million people in those states, which would be considered among the more lightly populated in a relative sense. That same space in BC probably has less than 10,000 people.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I believe I read somewhere here on WS that BS's mother was afraid of his outbursts. Thus he was shipped off to grandma.

They weren't that explicit.

"They were "everyday, good kids" who didn't get into trouble, but his son had problems at home and, at 16, briefly moved to Victoria to live with him, Alan Schmegelsky said. The boy then returned to Port Alberni to live with his grandmother."

Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'

 

[Gina20]

Thank you. And someone else posted that the ranch had bought it from auction and it was an Alberta vehicle. So that explains the Alberta registration.

And the Alberta registration explains the Alberta plates. I think, as a tourist, he's entitled to do that for up to 6 months. Not sure on that one, though.

I sure hope the plates didn't just come with the vehicle. That would be extremely foolish.

I've mentioned how people from the Dawson Creek area sometimes get insurance in Alberta, where rates are considerably cheaper, and register their vehicles there using a post office box in Alberta as an address. Not so good if there's ever an accident.

 

[gitana1]

Good morning fellow Canucks and Aussies and American cousins.

Well almost a week without a sighting. After an intense period of hunters becoming hunted, the trail is cold. I still believe the hunted are still alive. Despite what BS's father predicted---a blazingly glorious suicide mission ( and now through the knowledge of his memoir we get a glimpse into his pessimism)---his son has just...disappeared. How does he know what Bryer would do?

I've spent quite a bit of time weighing back and forth, would they just kill themselves? No, not unless it would hurt the ones they hate the most. But then again, maybe they have just taken a few steps off the road to evade capture after torching the Rav, and that, as they say, was that. A few steps into the bush, then a few more...my dread is they are never discovered and people will build conspiracy theories around them and project all sorts of fantasies onto their enigmatic images and no Justice will be seen to have been accomplished.

But maybe today will be the day.

WS member 'mtnstream' has noted that BS followed a YouTuber called "pewdiepie" and this is noteworthy for being mentioned by MSM in relation to the mass shooter in New Zealand recently. It's only a connection and who knows, probably nothing. I do think people should be aware of the dark web's existence but please stay far away, it is not a place for any of us. That is what LE is here for.

Dad has a memoir?

 

[Herat]

It was so amazing watching FLIR during the Boston bomber case. When they finally found the remaining brother, the clips while watching live from the planes were amazing. You could see so much and the perfect outline of the perp in the boat.

And sadly, promotes the perception of law enforcement activities as another real-life entertainment, when these are deadly serious tasks. I think it also promotes a sense of public entitlement too.

We here on WS are as guilty of it as anyone.

 

[PixieStix]

@JaneEyre I am sorry you are entirely being taken out of context and misunderstood.

As someone who was born and raised in the wilderness of Canada but has been an American for many years, it would be almost impossible for someone who has not lived in a remote area of Canada to really understand the sorts of things you are questioning. I 100% appreciate your asking and wanting to know. Canada is so massive land wise it's hard to wrap your head around the population differences. Even I get shell-shocked traveling back and forth.

Where I grew up the nearest hospital was an hour away, and that is closer than a lot of other more remote areas. We did not have a grocery store or other stores other than a gas station and general store. Most people who live in these areas of Canada are extremely self-sufficient as a whole. Neighbors help neighbors when a crisis arises. It's fundamentally a part of life in Canada for those small towns and villages. The killing of CD and LF is not the norm in those more remote areas.

For people not experienced with this kind of way of life, it's easy not to understand how it could take LE 4 hours to reach a crime scene.

Another thing to comment on is it's easy to think Canada and America are similar or the same because we are neighbors and English (Except the French areas) speaking. However, culturally, politically, and many other areas they are two independent countries with their own cultures and government and different ways of doing things. If I hadn't spent so much of my life in both places, I'm not sure I would have grasped that on the deep level that I do.

 

[scrappinkat]

Since Kam and Bryer were treated as missing persons themselves (I think) in the beginning of this story, might that not have been a factor? Could all of their victims have been trying to help them?

How did they get to be missing persons, I wonder. Their families knew they were leaving. I'm not getting that part of the story/timeline. Forgive me if I'm totally mistaken, the MSM isn't always reliable.

They were in regular contact with the grandmother and I believe even the father, until the 15th. After the 15th there were no responses to messages sent. Either the grandmother or father must have requested the police to look into where they were - but it was stated that they could have simply been in an area without cell service.

 

[MassGuy]

Dad has a memoir?

Ha! He sure does.

He drunk wrote a book in 12 days, and is now trying to drum up publicity for it.

I’m sure it’s Pulitzer worthy.

 

[Estrojane]

They weren't that explicit.

"They were "everyday, good kids" who didn't get into trouble, but his son had problems at home and, at 16, briefly moved to Victoria to live with him, Alan Schmegelsky said. The boy then returned to Port Alberni to live with his grandmother."

Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'

What I read was from another article. Mentions his mother was afraid of his outbursts. And either the same article or another article has one of his classmates saying BS used to mouth off to teachers. So I guess his shyness thing is just a cloak.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

There has been and probably will continue to be debate about if people being rescued should be charged within the SAR community.

Yes, I mentioned that in an earlier post. It comes up sometimes in the context of maritime rescue, especially when the people being rescued on the ocean are doing something stupid or inherently dangerous. In the last few years, there have been incidents involving people crossing the Atlantic who just shouldn’t be there, and a certain amount of public displeasure when they have to be bailed out

As I gather you know, so far no major country has decided to charge for maritime SAR, and it is provided free for non-nationals as well as nationals.