Canada - USA Trade War commencing March 2025 #3

[tricia]

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[Lyanna]

That's exactly what the USA government is trying to tackle with tariffs - the gigantic debt. The BIG IDEA is that foreign countries will pay that debt.

"Per-person debt has increased at an average rate of 5% per year since 2001. As of 2024 — the last year for which there is population data — the federal debt was equivalent to $106K per-person, for a total of $36.2 trillion."

How much debt does the US have? | USAFacts

About $37.6 trillion as of September 2025. The federal government borrows money when its spending and investments cannot be funded by federal revenue alone; this debt enables the government to pay for programs and services when funds aren’t immediately available.

usafacts.org

Countries with the Highest National Debt 2025

Detailed ranking of countries by national debt, as well as definitions of debt and debt to GDP ratio, an important indicator of a country's ability to carry and overcome debt.

worldpopulationreview.com

Yes, found this also. It's a lot of debt, partly because the US government spending exceeds it's income. Moo
JD needs to stop flying to countries where he isn't wanted, that can save some pennies.

Moo
Ebm

 

[otto]

This is a follow up article about student protesters who have been arrested, deported, are in hiding, or have fled to Canada. The war on Canada has expanded to the war on free speech on USA campuses; a war against protesters. What is happening in the USA today is exactly what was happening in Eastern Germany in 1989 before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Citizens reported neighbours, friends and acquaintance to the government. Those people were were rounded up to disappear. In Germany pre-WW2, same thing, including children reporting their parents.

"Other students have been dismayed by an atmosphere that encourages students to inform on their classmates.

“It really bothered me because this cultivates this environment of reporting on each other. It kind of gives memories of dictatorship and autocratic regimes,” said Sahar Bostock, who was among a group of Israeli students at Columbia who wrote an open letter criticizing efforts to report pro-Palestinian protesters."

Private groups work to identify and report U.S. student protesters for possible deportation

When a protester was caught on video in January at a New York rally against Israel, only her eyes were visible between a mask and headscarf. But days later, photos of her entire face, along with her name and employer, were circulated online.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[otto]

Countries with the Highest National Debt 2025

Detailed ranking of countries by national debt, as well as definitions of debt and debt to GDP ratio, an important indicator of a country's ability to carry and overcome debt.

worldpopulationreview.com

Yes, found this also. It's a lot of debt, partly because the US government spending exceeds it's income. Moo
JD needs to stop flying to countries where he isn't wanted, that can save some pennies.

Moo
Ebm

The debt was mentioned a while ago. The creation of the External Revenue Service, along with new investment ideas, is supposed to clear out the debt during this presidential term. That seems to be the big objective.

We know that the USA government intends to steal from Canada, Greenland, Ukraine, and Panama to begin to make a dent in that debt. Trump should tell his supporters that his plan requires stealing land, stealing resources, displacing foreign citizens, and drill-baby-drill everywhere regardless of environmental law or land rights. It's all about rich today, tomorrow's generation be damned.

 

[acutename]

I remember when clothing was all made in Canada or the US and I couldn't afford it - really had to save up for something new (no thrift stores, either).

Then came globalization and cheap imports. No one manufacturers clothing in North America anymore (except Mexicans).

Conservatives always want to try to turn the clock back, and they never succeed, they can only slow things down. Trump can't turn the clock back to pre-globalization, because that was due to forces beyond anyones control - namely technology change.

JMO

the only thing that could "turn back time" would be the whole world running out of energy- back to the stone age. apart from that, the global economy is not going away even if the US tries to sink into some kind of post apocalyptic isolationism.

I do recall when we had more US made clothing and shoes- it was worth repairing those. now if you have shoes you really like for some reason, they will be discontinued and it will cost 3x the new price to repair them. same with phones, other tech and appliances.

 

[Lyanna]

The debt was mentioned a while ago. The creation of the External Revenue Service, along with new investment ideas, is supposed to clear out the debt during this presidential term. That seems to be the big objective.

We know that the USA government intends to steal from Canada, Greenland, Ukraine, and Panama to begin to make a dent in that debt. Trump should tell his supporters that his plan requires stealing land stealing resources, displacing foreign citizens, and drill-baby-drill everywhere regardless of environmental law or land rights. It's all about rich today, tomorrow's generation be damned.

I've read some of the stuff about America's debt, usually goes over my head though! but I think it's much worse than what is being shared. They seem to be acting out of desperation. Then factor in all the civil cases headed towards the government due to firing how many federal employees? Then there's the illegal deportation of people, because it's not just illegal immigrants being deported. It all costs and mounts up, when there is already significant debt and financial issues.
How much has Donald and his administration spent since his inauguration i wonder?
They're in a bad way and I think there's a whole lot more to it, but as we both know I'm not the brightest bulb (and am eternally grateful for everyone's patience ♥) so very likely to be completely and utterly wrong!

Moo
Ebm

 

[acutename]

Musk wants to import engineers for his businesses who will work for less than Americans.

If you look up the Tesla numbers, there are about 6 times as many vehicles made in China as in the US.

Where Are Tesla Cars Made? Tesla Factories Around The World

Where are Tesla cars made? Discover the global network of Tesla factories. Learn about the unique features and capabilities of each facility.

www.myteslaaccessories.com.au

If people were still buying these cars (maybe after the outrage dies down?) I guess the tariffs could be avoided by "buying in your own country."

Elon said he was moving to Nevada to avoid laws:

Musk moves Neuralink from Delaware to Nevada after $55 ...​

The News Journal
https://www.delawareonline.com › business › 2024/02/10




Feb 10, 2024 — Musk moves Neuralink to Nevada after Delaware judge strikes down $55 billion pay package. Elon Musk's company Neuralink has moved its ...

people with means do move to avoid taxes and laws but moving has its own expenses, and IMO if you move enough people some where, you get.... more taxes and laws!

 

[acutename]

I've read some of the stuff about America's debt, usually goes over my head though! but I think it's much worse than what is being shared. They seem to be acting out of desperation. Then factor in all the civil cases headed towards the government due to firing how many federal employees? Then there's the illegal deportation of people, because it's not just illegal immigrants being deported. It all costs and mounts up, when there is already significant debt and financial issues.
How much has Donald and his administration spent since his inauguration i wonder?
They're in a bad way and I think there's a whole lot more to it, but as we both know I'm not the brightest bulb (and am eternally grateful for everyone's patience ♥) so very likely to be completely and utterly wrong!

Moo
Ebm

If the US debt is so bad, why is the currency strong?

(PS- as per google:
When was the last time the US was debt-free?


AI Overview
The U.S. was debt-free for the first and only time in history in early 1835, when President Andrew Jackson paid off the entire national debt. )
And Japan has more debt:
What country is in the most debt?


AI Overview
As of March 2025, Japan is expected to have the world's highest public debt-to-GDP ratio at 242%, followed by Singapore and Sudan.


Here's a breakdown of countries with high debt levels:

• Japan: Expected to have the highest public debt-to-GDP ratio at 242%.
  

• Singapore: Forecasted to have a public debt of 173% of GDP.
  
  
• Sudan: Forecasted to have a public debt of 128% of GDP.
  
  
• United States: A significant global debtor, with a debt-to-GDP ratio around 129%.
  
  
• China: Has a national debt of over $10 trillion, which is about 68.06% of its GDP.
  

Not sure what impact all the tariff action will have but I see the debt figures thrown around and used
for every reason... IMO.

 

[Lyanna]

If the US debt is so bad, why is the currency strong?

It's falling though isn't it?

 

[acutename]

It's falling though isn't it?

a bit

United States Dollar - Quote - Chart - Historical Data - News

The DXY decreased 0.2910 or 0.28% to 104.0440 on Friday March 28 from 104.3350 in the previous trading session. United States Dollar - values, historical data, forecasts and news - updated on March of 2025.

tradingeconomics.com

 

[otto]

If the US debt is so bad, why is the currency strong?

(PS- as per google:
When was the last time the US was debt-free?


AI Overview
The U.S. was debt-free for the first and only time in history in early 1835, when President Andrew Jackson paid off the entire national debt. )
And Japan has more debt:
What country is in the most debt?


AI Overview
As of March 2025, Japan is expected to have the world's highest public debt-to-GDP ratio at 242%, followed by Singapore and Sudan.


Here's a breakdown of countries with high debt levels:

• Japan: Expected to have the highest public debt-to-GDP ratio at 242%.
• 
  
• Singapore: Forecasted to have a public debt of 173% of GDP.
  
  
• 
  
• Sudan: Forecasted to have a public debt of 128% of GDP.
  
  
• 
  
• United States: A significant global debtor, with a debt-to-GDP ratio around 129%.
  
  
• 
  
• China: Has a national debt of over $10 trillion, which is about 68.06% of its GDP.

Not sure what impact all the tariff action will have but I see the debt figures thrown around and used
for every reason... IMO.

The USA is constantly spending more than it has, living beyond their means, and it's only going to get worse. The cause is the steady deterioration of governance over the last 20 years, including last time big-spender Trump was president.

"Of all the fearless forecasts put out there for the new year, one conspicuously missing from those lists is probably the easiest one: The United States of America will lose its last remaining triple-A credit rating.

Fitch Ratings followed suit in August 2023, also cutting its U.S. credit rating to AA+ from AAA, citing a “steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters.
...

The size of the total federal debt has surged beyond the size of the U.S. economy, as the chart here shows. It has matched the peak level of debt relative to gross domestic product taken on to win World War II, when no price was too great to defeat fascism. Perhaps persuaded by the siren song that deficits don’t matter, the U.S. ran a fiscal deficit of $1.8 trillion, or more than 6% of GDP, in fiscal 2024, at a time of full employment and no declared wars.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects annual budget deficits continuing around that level through the end of the decade, then rising gradually to $2.9 trillion by 2034. That assumes the Tax Cut and Jobs Act of 2017 expires at the end of 2025, as scheduled. But President-elect Donald Trump has made renewal of the signature tax cuts of his first term a priority, which would add an additional $4 trillion to the national debt above the CBO estimates.
...

As I’ve written previously, the main culprit of soaring deficits is interest, which has overtaken military costs, running at over $1 trillion annually. David Rosenberg, eponym of Rosenberg Research, further pointed out that Medicare and Social Security alone account for 38% of total spending. The supposed $2 trillion in spending cuts set by the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, headed by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, has targeted U.S. foreign aid (less than 1% of the budget) and high administrative costs of healthcare (caused by private insurance bureaucracy, not the government), he added in a client note on Friday.

Given the lack of serious measures, so far, to slow the government debt growth, the U.S.A. doesn’t merit a triple-A rating.”

https://www.barrons.com/articles/debt-doom-u-s-triple-a-credit-rating-22cacf99

 

[otto]

The USA is in financial trouble. Annual interest alone is one trillion. The USA desperately needs a boost to the economy, and that is why the USA wants Canada's Arctic shipping channels, Greenland's Arctic waterways, Greenlands natural resources, Ukraine's natural resources, Canada's natural resources, and control of the Panama Canal.

It's all about money and how to steal valuable global resources, like a dirty thief, rather than buy those resources with money that the USA does not have. Next, it's controlling global trade and adding USA tariffs to anyone who wants to trade globally through shipping channels.

The USA is a dangerous, desperate country that is in the process of imposing authoritarian law on it's people and attempting to steal other countries' land and resources. The people in the USA are okay with it because they expect to be richer one day, so rich that they don't have to pay taxes - according to Trump. I think those people must be okay with stealing from other countries.

 

[Herat]

If you look up the Tesla numbers, there are about 6 times as many vehicles made in China as in the US.

Where Are Tesla Cars Made? Tesla Factories Around The World

Where are Tesla cars made? Discover the global network of Tesla factories. Learn about the unique features and capabilities of each facility.

www.myteslaaccessories.com.au

If people were still buying these cars (maybe after the outrage dies down?) I guess the tariffs could be avoided by "buying in your own country."

Elon said he was moving to Nevada to avoid laws:

Musk moves Neuralink from Delaware to Nevada after $55 ...​

View attachment 574900
The News Journal
https://www.delawareonline.com › business › 2024/02/10




Feb 10, 2024 — Musk moves Neuralink to Nevada after Delaware judge strikes down $55 billion pay package. Elon Musk's company Neuralink has moved its ...

people with means do move to avoid taxes and laws but moving has its own expenses, and IMO if you move enough people some where, you get.... more taxes and laws!

The huge new lithium mine that has received $2.3 billion financing from the Biden presidency and $635 million from General Motors, the Thacker Pass Mine, is also less than 200 miles from the northern Nevada Gigafactory 1 and the associated Panasonic plant for battery production. Very very convenient for Tesla.

Through it's partnership with Lithium Nevada, Corp, General Motors also gets a top share of lithium output from this mine, althojugh it's lithium batteries are produced in Michigan and Tennessee factories.

 

[otto]

Cartoonists in the USA are starting to worry about persecution and being silenced for poking fun at the USA federal government war efforts.

"Oh, just lots of angry Trump drawings — Trump being attacked by moose and geese. I'm sort of numb with everything that I'm putting down. I feel a lot of anger and I'm very tempted to move back [to Canada]. I moved [to New York] at the end of 1989. I assume that in Russia a cartoonist can't draw mean drawings of Putin. I don't know if that's going to extend here. It's going to be troubling for someone in my position to draw Trump and his retinue. It is a very uncertain moment for me and for a lot of people."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/cartoonist-barry-blitt-1.7494254

 

[Cedars]

If the US debt is so bad, why is the currency strong?

As I understand it, the US dollar is the world's common currency for exchange - it was set up that way after WWII. It's also kept in reserve by international banks because it can most easily be sold to other countries/banks that might not want, for eg, billions of pesos or Cdn dollars.

So the price of the US dollar has more to do with international currency transactions and the continued faith in perpetual growth of the US economy, than in it's debt.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

That's funny! It sounds like he wants to import Canadian automaker employees to work in the USA as under-privileged foreign workers. Maybe he can set them up in government owned buildings and deduct their rent and food from their income. Trump sure has a bad attitude about people in foreign countries! He seems to view foreigners as slaves for the USA people.

@otto, but to be quite fair, specifically India protects its inner job market. Granted, Indian job market is an attractive thing, poor, but vast. But even Toyota had to build an assembly line in India to give jobs to Indians and after that they were allowed to sell cars on Indian market. The system of exporting jobs from US and then importing back goods to sell in the US was unsustainable, this is obvious. Also, if it were not for the boomers’ habit to overspend, maybe the toxic results of outsourcing would have been seen much sooner. We are not an austere nation.

The USA is in financial trouble. Annual interest alone is one trillion. The USA desperately needs a boost to the economy, and that is why the USA wants Canada's Arctic shipping channels, Greenland's Arctic waterways, Greenlands natural resources, Ukraine's natural resources, Canada's natural resources, and control of the Panama Canal.

It's all about money and how to steal valuable global resources, like a dirty thief, rather than buy those resources with money that the USA does not have. Next, it's controlling global trade and adding USA tariffs to anyone who wants to trade globally through shipping channels.

The USA is a dangerous, desperate country that is in the process of imposing authoritarian law on it's people and attempting to steal other countries' land and resources. The people in the USA are okay with it because they expect to be richer one day, so rich that they don't have to pay taxes - according to Trump. I think those people must be okay with stealing from other countries.

As you see, I am not an avid 47th supporter. However, weighing pros and cons. Honestly, I think that the state of US economy is not his fault. We probably have to go back to the 90es to understand whose watch had the most toxic consequences. And of course, individual presidents are less to blame than the whole “unrestrained” capitalism. So maybe blame Reagan who took all power away from trade unions?

Perhaps there'd come the time when any US president eventually would have to say, sorry, since WWII, lend-lease, Marshall's plan, NATO for security, all these international organizations, WHO...we can't anymore.

It is another thing that in politics, things are said differently, and done slower, but we have technocrats/businessmen in power now.

I remember George Friedman's forecast, it would be crucial who'd be the president in 2024, and always thought, why this year? Maybe it is when a serious world crisis would hit. It was probably projected.

We all have to change. Maybe a car per each family member is unsustainable. But then, the infrastructure of public transportation is poor because people thought their world would last forever.

 

[Cedars]

@otto, but to be quite fair, specifically India protects its inner job market. Granted, Indian job market is an attractive thing, poor, but vast. But even Toyota had to build an assembly line in India to give jobs to Indians and after that they were allowed to sell cars on Indian market. The system of exporting jobs from US and then importing back goods to sell in the US was unsustainable, this is obvious. Also, if it were not for the boomers’ habit to overspend, maybe the toxic results of outsourcing would have been seen much sooner. We are not an austere nation.



As you see, I am not an avid 47th supporter. However, weighing pros and cons. Honestly, I think that the state of US economy is not his fault. We probably have to go back to the 90es to understand whose watch had the most toxic consequences. And of course, individual presidents are less to blame than the whole “unrestrained” capitalism. So maybe blame Reagan who took all power away from trade unions?

Perhaps there'd come the time when any US president eventually would have to say, sorry, since WWII, lend-lease, Marshall's plan, NATO for security, all these international organizations, WHO...we can't anymore.

It is another thing that in politics, things are said differently, and done slower, but we have technocrats/businessmen in power now.

I remember George Friedman's forecast, it would be crucial who'd be the president in 2024, and always thought, why this year? Maybe it is when a serious world crisis would hit. It was probably projected.

We all have to change. Maybe a car per each family member is unsustainable. But then, the infrastructure of public transportation is poor because people thought their world would last forever.

Yes, perhaps unemployed arts graduates will find jobs creating cars, each stamped with a QR code for their instagram account in case anyone wants to employ them as an influencer.

 

[otto]

The only way that Greenland will be safe from theft of land and resources is to immediately enter into negotiations with a safe country to sell all those resources. It's too dangerous to be sitting on that wealth with the USA circling.

Canada, the EU, Australia - any other safe country. Seal the deal before the USA can steal it all. Then let the USA try to steal the wealth from a third party. Let's see how desperate the USA is to protect Greenland when there's no wealth to be stolen.

 

[otto]

@otto, but to be quite fair, specifically India protects its inner job market. Granted, Indian job market is an attractive thing, poor, but vast. But even Toyota had to build an assembly line in India to give jobs to Indians and after that they were allowed to sell cars on Indian market. The system of exporting jobs from US and then importing back goods to sell in the US was unsustainable, this is obvious. Also, if it were not for the boomers’ habit to overspend, maybe the toxic results of outsourcing would have been seen much sooner. We are not an austere nation.



As you see, I am not an avid 47th supporter. However, weighing pros and cons. Honestly, I think that the state of US economy is not his fault. We probably have to go back to the 90es to understand whose watch had the most toxic consequences. And of course, individual presidents are less to blame than the whole “unrestrained” capitalism. So maybe blame Reagan who took all power away from trade unions?

Perhaps there'd come the time when any US president eventually would have to say, sorry, since WWII, lend-lease, Marshall's plan, NATO for security, all these international organizations, WHO...we can't anymore.

It is another thing that in politics, things are said differently, and done slower, but we have technocrats/businessmen in power now.

I remember George Friedman's forecast, it would be crucial who'd be the president in 2024, and always thought, why this year? Maybe it is when a serious world crisis would hit. It was probably projected.

We all have to change. Maybe a car per each family member is unsustainable. But then, the infrastructure of public transportation is poor because people thought their world would last forever.

Yes, the problem started 20 years ago - 2005. Every government since then has been spend-happy. 2025 seems to be the year that the USA has so much unmanaged debt that the country has one trillion dollars per year in interest. The USA will lose status ... unless it starts stealing from other countries.

The USA is currently doing everything it can to steal from Ukraine, Canada and Greenland. There's no question that the USA desperately needs money through theft of natural resources. If it was an option, presumably the USA would just buy what it needs, but that's not an offer on the table.

"Fitch Ratings followed suit in August 2023, also cutting its U.S. credit rating to AA+ from AAA, citing a “steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters."

https://www.barrons.com/articles/debt-doom-u-s-triple-a-credit-rating-22cacf99

 

[otto]

I'm hearing on the news that Canada may start importing vehicles from EU, as they will be cheaper than paying the tariff on USA vehicles. Decisions will be made after April 2. We'll all be driving Audis instead of Fords. I like that!