Canada - USA Trade War commencing March 2025 #3

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  • #881
The massive USA national debt that now costs $1 trillion in annual interest is something that cannot be ignored. The USA government plans to increase that debt by $4 trillion through taxation negligence. The USA government is facing unmanaged financial ruin, and needs to pull a rabbit out of a hat to keep his promise of making USA people "rich".

The USA today has made it clear that they want natural resources from Canada, Greenland and Ukraine. The USA does not want to buy the resources that are reportedly necessary for the next generation of economic health. There is no proposal on the table to purchase rights and negotiate fair trade. The USA cannot afford to buy resources.

The USA does not want to deal with Indigenous or Environmental Law, they want everyone to get out of the way so the USA can drill-baby-drill. This is the rabbit out of a hat trick - robbing other countries of their wealth. It starts with tariffs on Canada, then tariffs on the global economy, then what - descending on Greenland with a military operation and overthrowing the government?

AFAIK, Canada doesn’t owe US as the relationship is neighbors and trade. Tariffs are hurting. The only type of communication should be from the “mutual interests” position as there are many.

I have to look at Greenland’s history, but likely, no, Greenland doesn’t owe anything to the US. So again, only negotiations with weighing in mutual benefits.

But was Ukrainian help a form of lend-lease? If so, then maybe there is a valid point?

But then, of course, “a negotiation” has to be political, these are countries, not megalopolis developers.
 
  • #882
AFAIK, Canada doesn’t owe US as the relationship is neighbors and trade. Tariffs are hurting. The only type of communication should be from the “mutual interests” position as there are many.

I have to look at Greenland’s history, but likely, no, Greenland doesn’t owe anything to the US. So again, only negotiations with weighing in mutual benefits.

But was Ukrainian help a form of lend-lease? If so, then maybe there is a valid point?

But then, of course, “a negotiation” has to be political, these are countries, not megalopolis developers.
Ukraine did not borrow money from the USA. The USA gave military equipment to fight Russia in Ukraine. After the equipment was gifted, the USA, out of the blue, demanded payment.

If the USA intended to loan military equipment to Ukraine, that had to be stated prior to providing military support, not afterward - as the USA is now attempting to do. Furthermore, other than demand that Ukraine hand over natural resources in perpetuity, has the USA asked for any other type of repayment for military equipment that was gifted (not leant)? No. The USA wants one thing, and has found a backwards method to demand those resources.

Perhaps the USA should wait until the end of the war and then collect that same military equipment. That seems like a fair option, especially since the USA has a history of leaving that military equipment behind like a big garbage pile.
 
  • #883
I personally disagree with Canada having shared values with the USA. Everything from government, to justice system, health care values, environmental law, education system, Indigenous Peoples rights ... all different. I also disagree that none of us understand. I think threats of theft from a bankrupt country are easy to understand. Greed without moral compass is the clear rationale or objective behind the tariffs, Trade War with Canada, and threats against Greenland and Ukraine.

I wonder why Susan Rice is speaking to Canadians via publicly owned CBC, rather than doing more to stop the current USA government from destroying the country. I know everyone says there's nothing to be done, but I don't believe that. Senior politicians can do something.

"Former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice described the impact tariffs will have on both economies.

"The consequences will be enormous for the American consumer who will pay a great deal more for cars and many other things, obviously also for Canadian consumers and [the] economies of both countries," said Rice, who served in the Obama administration.

"This is really a self-defeating and ill-advised economic policy. But it also has no clear rationale or objective."
...

"You know, we are friends. We are longtime allies. We share a peaceful border. We share values, we share interests and yet we're being pitted against one another for reasons that none of us understand and nobody wants."


To start, both countries have no unifying shared values between the provinces/states...Do you remember Quebec referendum?

Most of my Canadian friends are more conservative than me. Except for the ones on the West Coast. I can speak about Western Washington sharing some values with Western BC, but even Alberta looked like an odd mix of Idaho and Texas (redneck areas + a thriving, beautiful, liberal megapolis).

So perhaps, it will eventually bode done to treaties between individual Canadian provinces and bordering US states. I can imagine BC and WA: “once we were fur trappers living in Oregon territory and working for the Hudson Bay company. Then we drew the border on the map. Let’s forget and barter, we send you wine, you send us lumber. And, we share the Pacific Coast, a seismogenic zone. Let’s hire some Japanese engineers to help. And let us look at the safety in the Pacific Area”.

The word is moving in that direction. I honestly think that common geographic interests might mean more than people making decisions on the other coast.
 
  • #884
Every once in a while you need a laugh or a wry smile.

I just adore the MATT cartoons from the Daily Telegraph. This one about Signalgate fits the bill.

1743364129835.webp
 
  • #885

Make sure sound is on.
 
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  • #886
To start, both countries have no unifying shared values between the provinces/states...Do you remember Quebec referendum?

Most of my Canadian friends are more conservative than me. Except for the ones on the West Coast. I can speak about Western Washington sharing some values with Western BC, but even Alberta looked like an odd mix of Idaho and Texas (redneck areas + a thriving, beautiful, liberal megapolis).

So perhaps, it will eventually bode done to treaties between individual Canadian provinces and bordering US states. I can imagine BC and WA: “once we were fur trappers living in Oregon territory and working for the Hudson Bay company. Then we drew the border on the map. Let’s forget and barter, we send you wine, you send us lumber. And, we share the Pacific Coast, a seismogenic zone. Let’s hire some Japanese engineers to help. And let us look at the safety in the Pacific Area”.

The word is moving in that direction. I honestly think that common geographic interests might mean more than people making decisions on the other coast.
I'm quite certain that when "we drew the border on the map", it was for clear distinctions between values. Canada has no interest in USA authoritarianism, death penalty, absence of health values, chaotic education system, a divisive and polarized society, and choosing between 2 old men to run the country. Canadians demand much more from each other and their government.

There is so much confusion about Canada South of the border. Are there redneck-liberal states? I can't even imagine what a redneck-liberal looks like - men in cowboy hats and skirts?

Canada has BC and Ontario wine. We don't need California wine. Canada has high quality lumber and doesn't mind if the USA uses twigs to build homes in earthquake zones.

North America had a tariff-free trade agreement. First it was NAFTA, then it became CUSMA with Trump's signature. Trump has violated that agreement, so the world is now moving away from that direction. That agreement is over, the USA is untrustworthy and unreliable. Canada cannot make another trade agreement with the USA for obvious reasons. Canada will seek like-minded democratic trade partners in other parts of the world. The USA is on its own - although Canada will continue to provide electricity and energy to the USA for now.
 
  • #887
OK I was not following what happened in the Congress on the other side of the country for a reason. I once checked the voting on Sanders-Klobuchar bill. After that, I promised myself to never trace their voting.
Ukraine did not borrow money from the USA. The USA gave military equipment to fight Russia in Ukraine. After the equipment was gifted, the USA, out of the blue, demanded payment.

If the USA intended to loan military equipment to Ukraine, that had to be stated prior to providing military support, not afterward - as the USA is now attempting to do. Furthermore, other than demand that Ukraine hand over natural resources in perpetuity, has the USA asked for any other type of repayment for military equipment that was gifted (not leant)? No. The USA wants one thing, and has found a backwards method to demand those resources.

Perhaps the USA should wait until the end of the war and then collect that same military equipment. That seems like a fair option, especially since the USA has a history of leaving that military equipment behind like a big garbage pile.
However, indeed there was a lend-lease act of 2022 that was expired and never used. Instead, there were three avenues



And Presidential Drawdown Authority - this is the most interesting. In general, this financial leverage should be limited in the future. JMO.


So does Trump demand payment for continuing help?

You call US a bankrupt country. Economically, does it make sense for a bankrupt country to ask payment for help?

JMO: it can’t be between Trump and Zelenskiy. We have congress and Senate. Any act has to go through them. The power cannot be that paralyzed.
 
  • #888
I wonder what was their reaction to his statement that he could take it by force? I wouldn't find that funny. IMO they are underestimating his lack of scruples.
 
  • #889
Let the people on the receiving end take it stoically, no?
I will not belabour this, but this reaction is a complete misunderstanding about the power of each person's personal thoughts, which, IMO, is actually very egotistical.

You drive by the scene of a car accident. Do you decide how the victim should or should not feel?

Hell no, you know how they feel. The question is, can you help them? Can you call 911, can you do first aid? Chances are, no, the police and ambulence are there and they just want you to move on.

It isn't about YOU at all. Sure, you can discuss with your friends what might have happened, etc.

If you want to help real people, try to help them, in whatever way you can. Maybe you'll help, maybe you won't.

But don't imagine you are some type of all-powerful being, and your magic personal thoughts and opinions can control the world. That's exactly what Trump believes - that because he has strong opinions, those thoughts should manifest as reality. It is delusional.

JMO
 
  • #890
I'm quite certain that when "we drew the border on the map", it was for clear distinctions between values. Canada has no interest in USA authoritarianism, death penalty, absence of health values, chaotic education system, a divisive and polarized society, and choosing between 2 old men to run the country. Canadians demand much more from each other and their government.

Respectfully shortened

As I was taught, it had nothing to do with values/ideology (fur trappers and ports on both sides) and everything, with economy, land and power.

First, there was Oregon’s Country. Co-ruled by the US and GB. Who really owned it? Hudson’s Bay, an old monopoly.


Then in 1848 indeed the NW border between US and Canada was drawn on the map along the 49th parallel, with the exception of Vancouver island. Again, less values and more “how do we divide the land between British North and the US?”


What US got south of the border were the territories that now are Oregon, Washington, Idaho, tiny parts of Montana and Wyoming.


What Canada got was mostly BC and Vancouver Island (it makes sense if you drive there, like I did to Banff. BC is a very long state).

At that time, Canada even didn’t have its name. The territory I am talking about was called British North. Canadian confederation with four provinces got its name in 1867. Time-wise, as the country, Canada formed even longer than the US so the culture in different provinces differs.

As to American NW in general, it really grew with the Alaskan gold rush. Then the territories around the huge ports such as Seattle and Vancouver expanded. Jack London wrote about it. There is also in interesting museum in Cashmere, 8 miles East of Leavenworth, WA. One gets an idea how it looked like before the Oregon Treaty.
There is so much confusion about Canada South of the border. Are there redneck-liberal states? I can't even imagine what a redneck-liberal looks like - men in cowboy hats and skirts?
I think it makes more sense if we look at presidential elections.


The gap was wider in 2016 when all big cities except for Indianapolis voted blue.

Where I live: Western WA is “mostly” progressive, Eastern “mostly” redneck. The distinction is geographical but essentially, the same trend seems to exist in every country. US, Canada, France, Germany. You name it.

Western Washington turned blue with Microsoft and other IT. But any megapolis that has many jobs requiring education eventually turns progressive.

Eastern Washington is behind the Cascades. Different climate, not unlike parts of California. Farmland. More physical distance between people. Here is your redneck area because of the geography and the trade.

I drove to Banff via Seattle-Spokane-Idaho panhandle- crossed the border - a part of BC - Alberta farmland - Banff. And then we drove to Calgary. Tell me if I am wrong, but I thought I noticed the difference between “farmland” BC and “farmland” Alberta. (Yes I did: cell coverage, apps to avoid fires downloadable for BC but not for Alberta). Calgary looked beautiful and “progressive enough”.

BTW, I don’t use “rednecks” negatively. Lots of my great-grandparents were rednecks. I think “culture” is more defined by what climatic and economic conditions people have to survive.
 
  • #891
I will not belabour this, but this reaction is a complete misunderstanding about the power of each person's personal thoughts, which, IMO, is actually very egotistical.

You drive by the scene of a car accident. Do you decide how the victim should or should not feel?

Hell no, you know how they feel. The question is, can you help them? Can you call 911, can you do first aid? Chances are, no, the police and ambulence are there and they just want you to move on.

It isn't about YOU at all. Sure, you can discuss with your friends what might have happened, etc.

If you want to help real people, try to help them, in whatever way you can. Maybe you'll help, maybe you won't.

But don't imagine you are some type of all-powerful being, and your magic personal thoughts and opinions can control the world. That's exactly what Trump believes - that because he has strong opinions, those thoughts should manifest as reality. It is delusional.

JMO

Well, for his delusions, I blame Pence who found a “Bible guidance man” for Trump.

How can a skeptic New Yorker, former Democrat and businessman, subscribe to it? Exactly. Only if he is the new prophet.

As to driving past an accident. We once drove past a car which turned upside down on Masspike. 911 was called. But we thought of the scared two women inside. They had belts on, but being held upside down. How scared they must have felt. And - I had two bags of clothes to donate so I carefully put the clothes under their heads, to create cushions. I doubt it helped at all. But people around were helping, too, holding their hands. I guess it is the feeling that you are not alone that helps. And then 911 came.

Do we have the power over the actions of our government? My question is, when did we lose it?

Surely when out Congress voted for Iraq invasion we didn’t have it.

Surely when Obama decided to bail out banks we didn’t. Because Iceland had a referendum about their banks. They asked people.

When did we last have a referendum?

UK did, about Scotland. Canada allowed Quebec to have one, although it would have been disastrous for Canada if Quebec left.
 
  • #892
  • #893
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  • #894
Who is Cindy Garmaise? Fake. imo This video was recorded in 2019. moo

Well, that makes sense since the first time Trump said he was going to buy Greenland was in 2019.


"When Trump first raised the idea of buying Greenland in 2019, many locals told the BBC they were opposed to the proposal."
 
  • #895
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  • #896
  • #897

Canadians pull back on U.S. trips, threatening to widen United States’ $50 billion travel deficit​


[... ]Canadians “will no longer have to endure the inconveniences of international travel when Canada becomes our 51st state” and that “Europeans are eager to enjoy the Golden Age of America if they so choose to,” the spokesperson said.

[...]

(This administration's staffers honestly seem to be trolling now.)
<rsbm>

And this guy's been smokin' what, eh ?? :D
 
  • #898
Who is Cindy Garmaise? Fake. imo This video was recorded in 2019. moo

This isn't a fake. though... this is from todays headlines...

Now a new poll shows only 23 percent of Americans feel they are better off financially since Trump took office despite his promises to help get the economy back on track.

This is a blow to the current administration considering the same CBS/YouGov polling taken in January shows that 42 percent expected Trump's policies to improve their pocketbooks.

The numbers essentially flipped on their heads with 28 percent of Americans predicting they would be worse off financially with Trump in office compared to the 42 percent who say they are now feeling the squeeze – an increase of 14 percent.

At nearly twice the rate, Americans feel that they are feeling worse off than better off compared to when Trump took office and now.


And economists are now warning that the administration's new tariffs, set to be rolled out on Wednesday, will only worsen the financial state for struggling Americans with prices set to increase on many major goods from cars, to tech to oil and gas.


( the temptation to feel a bit sorry for MAGA voters is not easy to resist, however, I am managing to do that, so far... what a clown show this current USA government is, the cruelty to Americans, as much as it is to everyone else is monumental. And useless. And ridiculous. And despicable . And a clear sign of insanity. )
 
  • #899
Well, for his delusions, I blame Pence who found a “Bible guidance man” for Trump.

How can a skeptic New Yorker, former Democrat and businessman, subscribe to it? Exactly. Only if he is the new prophet.

They can subscribe to it if they want the strong, white, evangelical vote. imo

It was all a farce. Trump was later convicted of 34 counts of fraud in relation to paying off a p o r n star, and successfully sued for sexually assaulting a woman. Not exactly good and 'right' behaviour by the man.
 
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  • #900

This isn't a fake. though... this is from todays headlines...

Now a new poll shows only 23 percent of Americans feel they are better off financially since Trump took office despite his promises to help get the economy back on track.

This is a blow to the current administration considering the same CBS/YouGov polling taken in January shows that 42 percent expected Trump's policies to improve their pocketbooks.

The numbers essentially flipped on their heads with 28 percent of Americans predicting they would be worse off financially with Trump in office compared to the 42 percent who say they are now feeling the squeeze – an increase of 14 percent.

At nearly twice the rate, Americans feel that they are feeling worse off than better off compared to when Trump took office and now.


And economists are now warning that the administration's new tariffs, set to be rolled out on Wednesday, will only worsen the financial state for struggling Americans with prices set to increase on many major goods from cars, to tech to oil and gas.


( the temptation to feel a bit sorry for MAGA voters is not easy to resist, however, I am managing to do that, so far... what a clown show this current USA government is, the cruelty to Americans, as much as it is to everyone else is monumental. And useless. And ridiculous. And despicable . And a clear sign of insanity. )
The video is what I’m referring to. It’s something posted by Cindy Garmaise. I don’t know who she is but she’s posting a video making a false claim.
 
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