NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Love Never Fails]

Sure, but the jury has to decide what a reasonable person would do and that question of what was reasonable is a purely subjective. Each juror is going to consider that based upon their own life experiences. And this seems to be what they are struggling with. I'd say this is certainly leaning towards a hung jury.

Yes and it should be not guilty.

 

[Ontario Mom]

At the end of the day Mr. Penny should never have been brought to trial.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[LinasK]

To be fair, we don't really know who has the majority opinion on the jury.
The majority could be the folks that have already decided he's guilty, while the minority refuse to budge and believe him to be innocent.

jmo

This is my hope. Vigilantism is never okay.

 

[justtrish]

Most of us believed that before the trial started. People are very firm on this trial, and charges. They are either for "Team Penny" or "Team Neely". No middle ground here.

I don't see anyone "splitting the baby" here.

I wish Neely would have had the proper help he needed for his mental health. I wish we was not where he was that day making statements that caused people to be afraid. I am not on any team. I think it's just sad all the way around and I wish Neely was still here, but I also don't think the actions of Penny were malicious or with any ill intent toward Neely specifically. I'm glad I've never been put in a situation where I was afraid or felt I needed to protect myself and others in some way that could hurt someone else. I just don't think anyone "wins" here.

I'm married to a military man. I know he wouldn't hesitate to jump in just like Penny did. I don't know that his emotions would be all that evident if he was asked questions or needed to explain himself. He's been trained to act and not ponder feelings. It might come off as cold and seem like he doesn't care, but what I would see at home would be very different. For this reason I don't like to judge the lack of emotion that Penny may seem to have for what has happened.

 

[browneyes]

Is the jury still at lunch or deliberating again?

 

[DS2021]

Is the jury still at lunch or deliberating again?

Lunch was at 1. I cant imagine they are still eating

 

[Snoopster]

Did this case go to a grand jury?

 

[Ontario Mom]

How long do they usually take for lunch in NYC?

 

[DS2021]

How long do they usually take for lunch in NYC?

Id guess an hour tops.

 

[Seattle1]

Did this case go to a grand jury?

Yes -- June 2023

Grand jury indicts Daniel Penny in subway chokehold death

Daniel Penny was charged by Manhattan prosecutors last month in the May 1 death of Jordan Neely, a former Michael Jackson impersonator who struggled in recent years with homelessness and mental ill…

www.mercurynews.com

 

[browneyes]

I read where the judge issued the Allen charge. Any word on how that went? Was the question about “reasonable person” definition regarding count 1? I apologize….I’m a bit confused.

 

[Snoopster]

Yes -- June 2023

Grand jury indicts Daniel Penny in subway chokehold death

Daniel Penny was charged by Manhattan prosecutors last month in the May 1 death of Jordan Neely, a former Michael Jackson impersonator who struggled in recent years with homelessness and mental ill…

www.mercurynews.com

So if the Grand Jury sent this case to trial (i.e. a jury of peers) how could it be "Allan Bragg's fault"? Doesn't this imply that this case was worthy of going to trial?

And the fact that there are people on the jury on 'both sides' shows that it was worthy of going to trial. It wasn't a slam dunk that he was innocent. This was worthy of going to trial no matter the ultimate outcome. JMO.

 

[shotgun09]

I read where the judge issued the Allen charge. Any word on how that went? Was the question about “reasonable person” definition regarding count 1? I apologize….I’m a bit confused.

Per Dav Rivoli on 'x':

After judge tells jury to keep deliberating - we got another note Jurors want clarification - in determining whether a person reasonably believes physical force is necessary, "we'd like to better understand the term 'reasonable person'" -- can the judge elaborate?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865087061985841398

 

[Ontario Mom]

Update of 2:54 pm - back in the courtroom for a while, court officers but no sign of Judge Wiley or lawyers. Below is the agreed verdict sheet, go to Count 2 if not guilty on Count 1 for reason other than justification - nothing about going to count 2 if hung on 1

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865122998392328527

 

[JoeFromLB]

Id guess an hour tops.

Maybe 90 minutes? That was our time in a case here in Long Beach that I was a juror on recently. In fact, when we were deadlocked after a few days, the judge asked us to continue deliberating during the lunch hour. We could grab a sandwich or something nearby and bring it right back to the jury room.

 

[DS2021]

Heres my take, i dont think dp was wrong in intervening. However I do question whether the force he used was reasonable. I do not believe he meant to kill him, but the manslaughter charge doesn't require intent. The subway should have hired security guards on hand 24-7.

This shouldn't have happened

 

[DS2021]

Ive seen alot of people say that if DP is convicted, nobody in NY will ever intervene again.

Nobody should have to intervene physically unless they are police.

This case gives in example of what can happen when someone without the proper resources intervenes.

Changes should be made, so that trained professionals are on hand if something like this happens

 

[IceIce9]

At the end of the day Mr. Penny should never have been brought to trial.

Yes. IMO he is a victim too.

 

[Linda7NJ]

To be fair, we don't really know who has the majority opinion on the jury.
The majority could be the folks that have already decided he's guilty, while the minority refuse to budge and believe him to be innocent.

jmo

I refuse to believe that.

 

[shotgun09]

Update of 3 pm - ADA Dafna Yoran has come into the courtroomCourt Officer: The judge is coming down.[ He does. Now Daniel Penny and his lawyers come in]Judge: We got the note, We the jury would like to inform, we cannot come to a unanimous verdict on Count 1

ADA Yoran: We are considering withdrawing Count 1.Judge Wiley: I'm not sure that's consistent with NYS law. What do I tell the jury? That we deem Count 1 an acquittal? Could they properly do Count 2?ADA Yoran: They can do what they want

Judge Wiley: I think either I declare a mistrial, or give them a second Allen charge, maybe tell them to come back Monday. But I don't know what I would say.ADA Yoran: There's no point to that if we don't resolve this first.

ETA: Judge: Go think about it. Let's break
From ICP

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865126697693057370