NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[Lilibet]

I do believe if any of the witnesses/participants with the restraint "approved" of Neely's death, they would have been charged. I think their agenda was subdue and protect JN as well as his intended victims.

JMO

All of which (subdue and protect) could have been done without a lethal chokehold.

ETA: We do not know if Mr Neely had ANY “intended victims” or if he was just on a rant. Witnesses will tell us that when they testify.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think that fear can create an adrenaline rush. Penny may not have even realized how tightly he was holding Neely. I am pretty sure that Penny didn't get on the train that day, looking to kill someone.

One point--among many--that I think will be made at trial is that when Penny came behind JN and placed him in the choke hold, he also carefully lowered the both of them to the floor. He didn't have to do that. A forceful chokehold will result in loss of consciousness within seconds. Neely was still struggling on the floor, which is why the two other men tried to assist by holding JN's legs.

I'm also still looking forward to tox screen results for JN to see if drugs contributed to his adrenaline rush.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

One point--among many--that I think will be made at trial is that when Penny came behind JN and placed him in the choke hold, he also carefully lowered the both of them to the floor. He didn't have to do that. A forceful chokehold will result in loss of consciousness within seconds. Neely was still struggling on the floor, which is why the two other men tried to assist by holding JN's legs.

I'm also still looking forward to tox screen results for JN to see if drugs contributed to his adrenaline rush.

JMO

I’ve never seen a link that says Penny “carefully lowered both of them to the floor.”

An important point at trial will be the instructions for the blood choke and explanation of the difference between a blood choke and air choke as found in this Marine training manual. I believe it was posted very early on the thread. As a Marine, Penny would have at least been trained in the blood choke. Only the blood choke on the carotid artery will result in loss of consciousness in seconds. An air choke can take a couple of minutes. Because it takes so long to incapacitate the opponent, it is not taught in this particular course, according to the link.

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/FMTBE/Student%20Materials/MCECST/B_Tan_Belt_Execute_Chokes_%20SO.pdf?ver=pJH__SmOfUgRAWuTKRUJDQ%3D%3D#:~:text=An%20air%20choke%20is%20performed,the%20opponent%20to%20lose%20consciousness.

The fact that Mr Neely was still struggling Indicates that it’s possible that Penny was performing a blood choke incorrectly, which he should have realized within 8-13 seconds and ceased. As the link notes:

When executed properly, a blood choke takes between eight and
thirteen seconds for the opponent to lose consciousness. When
a blood choke is incorrectly performed, most likely the
student is applying pressure to the windpipe and executing an
air choke.

JMO

 

[Jade]

Was Daniel Penny given a tox screen during his questioning?

 

[Lilibet]

Was Daniel Penny given a tox screen during his questioning?

One would hope that it would be standard procedure, but I don’t recall that it was ever said they did.

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669253416403574784

 

[Rolypolyoly]

One would hope that it would be standard procedure, but I don’t recall that it was ever said they did.

Was he questioned at the time? I thought originally he was allowed to leave the subway?. If my memory serves me well, which it seldom does these days, didn't he present himself for questioning days later?.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I agree.

Their viewpoints and perspectives will help us all understand what people were seeing and feeling when Mr Neely began yelling and threatening passengers on the subway. JMO.

I would have been interested in hearing from them at the start, right after Jordan death. Not so much weeks later, after the story broke and it became clear there would at least be charges against DP, and their faces were out there publicly with people both questioning their role, and supporting their actions, depending on personal opinion.
Weeks later when they were identified and interviewed by LE, I can only imagine if it was me, I would give the version of events that would support the narrative, one which would absolve me of any accountability, so hearing them say that they were scared, or that they believed JN was an immediate threat after all the publicity etc, won't have the same credibility for me as it may have of they had made statements to LE at the time. But that's JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Was he questioned at the time? I thought originally he was allowed to leave the subway?. If my memory serves me well, which it seldom does these days, didn't he present himself for questioning days later?.

If I recall correctly he was allowed to leave after the incident and came forward later.

It was at some point between the incident and him turning himself in later, that the protests happened, threatening to "burn it down", if he wasn't charged.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I do believe if any of the witnesses/participants with the restraint "approved" of Neely's death, they would have been charged. I think their agenda was subdue and protect JN as well as his intended victims.

JMO

They certainly did subdue him ... permanently. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Thought provoking article here today I hope Daniel Penny indictment won’t stop good Samaritans — like the ones who helped me — from acting

 

[kittythehare]

“The grand jury’s decision tells our city and our nation that ‘no one is above the law’ no matter how much money they raise, no matter what affiliations they claim, and no matter what distorted stories they tell in interviews,” the attorneys from the law firm Mills & Edwards said in a statement.

“At some point Mr. Penny should have let go before Jordan died,” the attorneys for Neely’s family said. “ … Any reasonable person knows choking someone for that long will kill them. Daniel Penny did not have the right to be the judge, jury and executioner.”
Penny’s next court appearance is July 17, according to court records.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/15/daniel-penny-indicted-jordan-neely-death/

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

“The grand jury’s decision tells our city and our nation that ‘no one is above the law’ no matter how much money they raise, no matter what affiliations they claim, and no matter what distorted stories they tell in interviews,” the attorneys from the law firm Mills & Edwards said in a statement.

“At some point Mr. Penny should have let go before Jordan died,” the attorneys for Neely’s family said. “ … Any reasonable person knows choking someone for that long will kill them. Daniel Penny did not have the right to be the judge, jury and executioner.”
Penny’s next court appearance is July 17, according to court records.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/15/daniel-penny-indicted-jordan-neely-death/

But Jordan yelled at people. Didn't that give DP the right to play those roles?

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669342766613032960

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Thought provoking article here today I hope Daniel Penny indictment won’t stop good Samaritans — like the ones who helped me — from acting

I hope it doesn't stop good samaritans taking action too, but I also hope that it makes those good samaritans, time permitting, and I believe DP had that time, think carefully about what that action might be.

 

[kittythehare]

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Sundog]

An important point at trial will be the instructions for the blood choke and explanation of the difference between a blood choke and air choke as found in this Marine training manual.

<snipped for focus>

Do you have a link that indicates that this is an important point for the trial, or is it just your opinion? I haven't seen anything in MSM that indicates that the prosecution is focusing on this.

 

[Ontario Mom]

<snipped for focus>

Do you have a link that indicates that this is an important point for the trial, or is it just your opinion? I haven't seen anything in MSM that indicates that the prosecution is focusing on this.

This link has a pretty good summary of what both the defense and prosecution will be focused on.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=200952335814579

ETA: just edited to remove a confusing comment - nothing to see here, lol.

jmo

 

[Sundog]

Was Daniel Penny given a tox screen during his questioning?

Why would they give Mr. Penny a tox screen at the time that he was giving information and statements to LE? IIRC, he wasn't charged or arrested until two weeks later.

 

[SugarQueen]

Thought provoking article here today I hope Daniel Penny indictment won’t stop good Samaritans — like the ones who helped me — from

IMHO, this case will cause more people to look the other way, or pull out there phone and make a video. Who would want to risk going thru all of this?
Those few brave, good people who would consider standing up to defend themselves, or someone else will definitely have to think twice about it.