NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[IceIce9]

IMHO, this case will cause more people to look the other way, or pull out there phone and make a video. Who would want to risk going thru all of this?
Those few brave, good people who would consider standing up to defend themselves, or someone else will definitely have to think twice about it.

I would hope that if my mother, grandmother, or daughter was on a train and someone was exhibiting threatening behavior, someone as brave as Daniel Penny would be there to protect them. JMO and maybe others would not feel the same.

 

[Murphy1950]

Why would they give Mr. Penny a tox screen at the time that he was giving information and statements to LE? IIRC, he wasn't charged or arrested until two weeks later.

Seems logical, that if Mr. Penny had in any way provoked any suspicion about his sobriety, a tox screen would have been ordered.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The Report feature is for violations of Websleuths TOS.

Please don't send Reports because you don't like what another member has said or because you disagree with them, or if it's "misinformation", or just because you want us to know how you feel about the case. These are not Reportable violations of TOS.

As for "misinformation" regarding specifics, that is something that can be respectfully worked out through discussion on the thread. WS staff have thousands of threads and don't necessarily know all the fine details of every single case and we don't have time to be searching for what is or is not 100% accurate.

Thank you.

 

[lonetraveler]

For as long as I can remember, and I'm nearly 60. You take your jacket off and throw it to the floor while angrily screaming about stuff, that's 100% you saying "bring it on". I thought everyone knew that?

I totally agree. A man taking off his jacket and screaming in a threatening way is getting ready for a fight just like when women are shouting and screaming and then decide to take off their heels....they are about to rumble. JMO

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

be there to protect them

protect? what does protection look like? This? Does it, really?

 

[Murphy1950]

I would hope that if my mother, grandmother, or daughter was on a train and someone was exhibiting threatening behavior, someone as brave as Daniel Penny would be there to protect them. JMO and maybe others would not feel the same.

Agree 100%.

 

[Lilibet]

<snipped for focus>

Do you have a link that indicates that this is an important point for the trial, or is it just your opinion? I haven't seen anything in MSM that indicates that the prosecution is focusing on this.

It’s my opinion, as was made clear with “JMO” at the end of my post. I think the distinction between an air choke and a blood choke is an important one, given the length of time Penny spent choking Mr Neely. Which kind of choke did Penny think he was doing? According to the Marine training document I linked, it should not have taken more than 8-13 seconds to subdue Mr Neely and render him unconscious if Penny was doing the blood choke correctly. But I wouldn’t expect the prosecution to discuss in MSM what their focus is.

JMO MOO, etc

 

[MyBelle]

Was Daniel Penny given a tox screen during his questioning?

Did LE have probable cause to give Penny a tox screen?

 

[MyBelle]

This link has a pretty good summary of what both the defense and prosecution will be focused on.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=200952335814579

ETA: just edited to remove a confusing comment - nothing to see here, lol.

jmo

The indictment is sealed. We still don't know the charges. If the charge is 2nd degree manslaughter, the prosecution will be focused on proving Penny's actions were "reckless." No burden of proof rests with the defense.

JMO

Grand jury indicts Daniel Penny in chokehold death of Jordan Neely

A grand jury has decided to indict Daniel Penny in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on the New York City subway.

abcnews.go.com

The exact charges will not be unsealed until Penny appears in court on June 28, according to the Manhattan District Attorney's office. Penny was initially arrested on a second-degree manslaughter charge.

 

[Lilibet]

But Jordan yelled at people. Didn't that give DP the right to play those roles?

Your sarcasm font isn’t working. ;-) Having read your other comments, I assume you were being sarcastic…at least I hope so. Some may take you literally since it appears that some feel that yelling and throwing down one’s jacket is a good enough reason for a person like DP to view that person as a lethal threat that needs to be executed on the spot.

JMO MOO

 

[MyBelle]

protect? what does protection look like? This? Does it, really?

The elderly woman who got her face brutally bashed by JN while on a train, obviously had no one there willing to protect her.

JMO

Exclusive | Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues before tragic NYC subway chokehold death

Jordan Neely had more than a dozen run-ins with police due to his mental health issues — part of a lengthy history of instability that was tragically never remedied.

nypost.com

Neely also had numerous arrests on his rap sheet, the most recent in 2021, when he socked an older woman in the head, severely injuring her and landing himself in jail for more than a year, sources said.

The 67-year-old woman fell when she was punched Nov. 12, 2021 and broke her nose, fractured her orbital bone and endured “bruising, swelling and substantial pain to the back of her head,” according to charging documents.

JMO

 

[SugarQueen]

Sigh, I don’t think anyone is saying JN should have been “ executed”. As far as I can tell no one here thinks he should have died.
What some of us DO think is JN was viewed as a threat. Daniel Penny seems to have viewed it that way. Daniel Penny was brave enough to try and subdue that threat before JN hurt someone. It went horribly wrong, but it wasn’t intentional.
I don’t think DP ever decided to be judge, jury, and executioner like many here think. IMHO
It’s sad to see people hate on Daniel Penny. IMHO

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

The elderly woman who got her face brutally bashed by JN while on a train, obviously had no one there willing to protect her.

JMO

Exclusive | Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues before tragic NYC subway chokehold death

Jordan Neely had more than a dozen run-ins with police due to his mental health issues — part of a lengthy history of instability that was tragically never remedied.

nypost.com

Neely also had numerous arrests on his rap sheet, the most recent in 2021, when he socked an older woman in the head, severely injuring her and landing himself in jail for more than a year, sources said.

The 67-year-old woman fell when she was punched Nov. 12, 2021 and broke her nose, fractured her orbital bone and endured “bruising, swelling and substantial pain to the back of her head,” according to charging documents.

JMO

Was this in reply to my query about what protection looks like? Because I missed the answer.

 

[Lilibet]

I would hope that if my mother, grandmother, or daughter was on a train and someone was exhibiting threatening behavior, someone as brave as Daniel Penny would be there to protect them. JMO and maybe others would not feel the same.

It depends on what you view as threatening behavior. Yelling violent words, throwing a jacket down as if getting ready to fight, or even raising fists (which I haven’t heard that JN did) is not threatening to me or anyone directly. Scary yes, but I have yet to hear that Mr Neely directly threatened anyone. DP came from behind, so there was no self-defense. So I would not feel the need to be protected by anyone, especially in a potentially lethal way as DP did. There were other ways to restrain Mr Neely.

Quite frankly, given the facts we all have, both my husband and I agree that we would have tried to intervene somehow to protect Mr Neely from Penny’s excessive use of force. We are in our late 70’s and my dh uses a cane and I use a walker, but we could not stand by and watch the life get choked out of Mr Neely if it was within our power to stop it. I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could think the way DP handled this situation was justified, given the facts we have so far. If more information about the events is presented at trial that changes my mind, I will definitely say so.

JMO MOO

 

[Lilibet]

I totally agree. A man taking off his jacket and screaming in a threatening way is getting ready for a fight just like when women are shouting and screaming and then decide to take off their heels....they are about to rumble. JMO

You’re comparing two women taking their heels off in order to fight *each other* to one man yelling and throwing his jacket down. There was no one he was directly challenging to a fight or engaging with that we know of. Who was Mr Neely threatening? DP came from behind, so I doubt he felt personally threatened. He could have wrapped his arms around JN’s chest and arms and subdued him with help. There was no need to choke the life out of him!

JMO MOO, etc.

 

[MyBelle]

Sigh, I don’t think anyone is saying JN should have been “ executed”. As far as I can tell no one here thinks he should have died.
What some of us DO think is JN was viewed as a threat. Daniel Penny seems to have viewed it that way. Daniel Penny was brave enough to try and subdue that threat before JN hurt someone. It went horribly wrong, but it wasn’t intentional.
I don’t think DP ever decided to be judge, jury, and executioner like many here think. IMHO
It’s sad to see people hate on Daniel Penny. IMHO

I agree with you.

Penny has said that JN was threatening them. Penny was there and so were the others whom I have no doubt will be witnesses for the defense at trial.

JMO

Daniel Penny disputes he held Jordan Neely in a chokehold for 15 minutes on NYC subway

Penny is charged with manslaughter in the incident on a northbound F Train, which was captured on video.

www.nbcnews.com

Penny accused Neely of uttering violent threats. He said he was fearful of Neely and "couldn't sit still" as he saw women and children being threatened.

"I was listening to music at the time, and he was yelling, so I took my headphones out to hear what he was yelling," Penny said in his video statement. "And the three main threats that he repeated over and over was 'I'm going to kill you,' 'I'm prepared to go to jail for life,' and 'I'm willing to die.'"

In the video statements, Penny also defended how he restrained Neely. He said that he adjusted his grip on Neely “based on the force that he’s exerting” and that Neely was breathing in the video.

 

[lonetraveler]

You’re comparing two women taking their heels off in order to fight *each other* to one man yelling and throwing his jacket down. There was no one he was directly challenging to a fight or engaging with that we know of. Who was Mr Neely threatening? DP came from behind, so I doubt he felt personally threatened. He could have wrapped his arms around JN’s chest and arms and subdued him with help. There was no need to choke the life out of him!

JMO MOO, etc.

He was threatening anyone and everyone. It was just a matter of time before he chose who he was going to attack. He didn't care if he went to prison.

 

[Murphy1950]

Sigh, I don’t think anyone is saying JN should have been “ executed”. As far as I can tell no one here thinks he should have died.geful
What some of us DO think is JN was viewed as a threat. Daniel Penny seems to have viewed it that way. Daniel Penny was brave enough to try and subdue that threat before JN hurt someone. It went horribly wrong, but it wasn’t intentional.
I don’t think DP ever decided to be judge, jury, and executioner like many here think. IMHO
It’s sad to see people hate on Daniel Penny. IMHO

Love this post @SugarQueen. No one takes any joy or satisfaction in Mr. Neely's death. Jordan Neely lived a tragic life. People going after Mr. Penny for the system's shortcomings strikes me as vengeful. Then you have people second guessing how they would have handled it, they are entitled of course, but easy to say, when you weren't there. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I have yet to hear that Mr Neely directly threatened anyone.

I’m really struggling to understand how anyone could think the way DP handled this situation was justified, given the facts we have so far.

<RSBM>

I'm curious, have you watched the couple of interviews with Penny himself?

If you have, and you're still struggling to understand how anyone can think the way he handled the situation was justified, I suppose that simply means you heard what he said about it and you just don't believe him. Fair enough.

Others have heard what he has said, and DO believe him. I suspect the info that will come out at trial will be the actual testimony of other riders that were in fear for their safety. To me, what those folks have to say will be the deciding factor for the jury.

jmo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

The elderly woman who got her face brutally bashed by JN while on a train, obviously had no one there willing to protect her.

JMO

Exclusive | Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues before tragic NYC subway chokehold death

Jordan Neely had more than a dozen run-ins with police due to his mental health issues — part of a lengthy history of instability that was tragically never remedied.

nypost.com

Neely also had numerous arrests on his rap sheet, the most recent in 2021, when he socked an older woman in the head, severely injuring her and landing himself in jail for more than a year, sources said.

The 67-year-old woman fell when she was punched Nov. 12, 2021 and broke her nose, fractured her orbital bone and endured “bruising, swelling and substantial pain to the back of her head,” according to charging documents.

JMO

He had no idea about that. I guess I can look up some cases on PACER and go choke some people out tonight cause they have committed crimes in the past. Is this why we have sex offender registrys? So I can choke people out and then go "it wasn't my intention to play judge, jury, executioner so no harm, no foul" MOO