NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[PuzzlinEvidence]

I believe the jury's initial instructions were clear. They tried to reach a unanimous decision on count 1, and were unsuccessful in doing so. The instructions then were to stop deliberating, they were finished. There was no instruction for splitting the baby and to now only consider Count 2...

I believe if Count 1 failed, they were always going to have to consider Count 2. The instruction to the jury is framed as 'you must reach a verdict on Count 1 and otherwise cannot consider Count 2' because obviously the judge doesn't want to suggest to the jury that they could be a hung jury. But a hung jury is always a possibility, or a charge being dropped. And IF they are a hung jury or a charge is dropped, in reality...they're going to have to consider Count 2, cause that's how it works. Count 2 doesn't magically disappear.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, but hopefully my view here is clear. In any event, it may all be a moot point, and if not, there's an appeal.

 

[PuzzlinEvidence]

That's not what happened. The higher charge was not tossed out because there was a hung jury on that charge. The higher charge was dropped by the prosecution. In the middle of jury deliberations.

There's no difference in effect. Either way the higher charge is gone, so the jury now considers the lesser one.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Jordan may have killed or could have killed, these are assumptions.

What is fact is that Daniel Penny caused Jordan’s death. That is not assumption.

Wait for it......

 

[Rolypolyoly]

He didn't have fentanyl in his system, did he?
Is there a link to that? I must have missed that.
IMO.

No fentanyl, and no way to measure the amount of K2 either. It could have been consumed that morning, or weeks ago. K2 has a half life of 41 days and can be detectable for weeks in the system. We, nor Dr Harris or the paid defence expert, have no way to tell how much K2 was present in JN system when he was killed.

 

[shotgun09]

There's no difference in effect. Either way the higher charge is gone, so the jury now considers the lesser one.

Because the judge changed the instructions. After the Allen charge for a hung jury was given. Unprecedented .
He was maneuvering jurors as if they were chessboard pieces. Re-arranging to fit his ( Theirs ) game plan. And it was witnessed.

One shouldn't play with members of a jury. (Especially if one is an attorney....)

Mistrial will be declared tomorrow. I am almost sure of it. The judge should have been brought to his senses this weekend.

 

[Marysmith]

True, and that is where much of the problem lies. So many troubled souls, falling between the cracks, not getting needed help, and some are acting out violently in public.

I am in Los Angeles, and our Metro Transit System has had a huge spike in violent assaults upon passengers and drivers. Some shootings, some stabbings and many physical assaults. A lot of them by transients, or addicts, or robbers, suddenly attacking people on the platform, or in the seats, often for no apparent reason.

People have reason to be frightened. So if they are in a closed tube and someone starts screaming violent threats, they are going to assume it is a real threat. That is how people react now because of recent stabbings and assaults.

I wish JN's friends/family had been monitoring his medications. That is what we all need to happen these days. People need to make sure their loved ones are responding to treatment and it is up to all of us to help.


LA METRO

Total crimes within LA Metro system surge over 65% in early 2024​

JUNE 26, 2024

Riding on the Metro: Wave of Violence on Public Transit Prompts Surge in Police Presence​

Riding on the Metro: Wave of Violence on Public Transit Prompts Surge in Police Presence - Los Angeles Airport Peace Officers Association

In February, Metro passenger Darryl Winborn died after being pepper-sprayed by another passenger on board a bus in Koreatown after the two had gotten into an argument. In March, a […]

laapoa.com

In March, a man allegedly threatened a Metro bus driver with a firearm, causing the driver to crash into several vehicles in downtown L.A. In April, Mirna Arauz was stabbed to death by a man in an unprovoked attack as she exited the Metro B Line train at the Universal City Station in Studio City. In May, Metro bus passenger Juan Luis Gomez-Ramirez was killed by a suspect who shot him in the head as he was getting off at a stop in Commerce. And on June 21, Juan Garcia was fatally shot on a Metro E Line train near the La Cienega/Jefferson Station in South L.A., following an altercation between the victim and four male suspects.

These are all horrible situations. I'm so sorry to hear this. Maybe they need security on all the buses? I know that's expensive but we can't lose another human this way.

As far as Jordan Neely please understand that when someone's mental illness is this bad their friends and family would not be able to give him his medications. He needed forced treatment which he didn't get which is certainly not his fault.
Jordan Neely is considered a victim.

 

[Marysmith]

And maybe he would have killed someone because of the fentanyl and/or other drugs in his system. All we know for sure is Penny was trying to subdue him till police arrived.

Well he didn't any other day. Penny way over subdued him in relation to the threat, IMO. Neely was malnourished and smaller than him to boot.

 

[Marysmith]

He is very detached. Was Daniel’s mental health questioned during the trial?

No. IMO because he would have had to take some responsibility for the crime he committed then.

 

[fred&edna]

Nope. There’s only one victim here and he’s dead because the man being prosecuted couldn’t be bothered to keep “the crackhead” alive. Penny was a hero when he subdued Mr Neely and a killer when he continued the chokehold beyond the point needed. At Websleuths, people being tried for crimes are not victims. We respect the justice system here. Wow!

Tough to respect the justice system in this instance. A judge throwing out first charge at the request of DA... either because prosecutors didn't believe it a truly chargeable offense OR because prosecutors didn't like the deadlock outcome. A possible threat of jury tampering in which a judge doesn't even bother questioning jurors.

This situation is NOT typical. And, Wow! is right.

What are they going to decide next... charge Penny with jaywalking when he left the police station... will the DA and judge do nearly anything to persecute and prosecute Daniel Penny for something??

jmo

 

[Sundog]

Tough to respect the justice system in this instance. A judge throwing out first charge at the request of DA... either because prosecutors didn't believe it a truly chargeable offense OR because prosecutors didn't like the deadlock outcome. A possible threat of jury tampering in which a judge doesn't even bother questioning jurors.

This situation is NOT typical.

jmo

It's a disgrace.

 

[Seattle1]

Thankyou for this. This is so sad.
I wonder why medicaid won't pay for psychiatric treatment in a prison facility? It seems to me that this could be a perfect time to administer it.

This is one of the reasons why the Court went out of it's way to plea bargain JN out of a criminal charge/penal facility to help him but in the 2023 incident, he left less than two weeks after entering Harbor House.

It's a violation of an inmates Constitutional Right to be forced medication/treatment while locked up. This can only be done under Court Order in a Hospital or medical environment when a patient is being restored to competency to stand trial.

Another catch 22 in a vicious cycle of drug addiction and mental illness....

<modsnip: JN's family are not on trial here>

ETA: Add statute

III. RELEVANT STATUTES AND CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS:

O.R.C. 5122.27: The chief clinical officer of the hospital or his designee shall assure that all patients hospitalized or committed pursuant to O.R.C. 5122 receive treatment including, but not limited to, the right to be free from unnecessary or excessive medication.

U.S. CONSTITUTION: The Constitution permits the government to administer antipsychotic drugs involuntarily to a mentally ill criminal defendant in order to render that defendant competent to stand trial for serious but nonviolent crimes if the conditions below are satisfied. The Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause permits the government involuntarily to administer antipsychotic drugs to a mentally ill defendant facing serious criminal charges in order to render that defendant competent to stand trial, but only if the treatment is:

1. Medically appropriate; and
2. Substantially unlikely to have side effects that may undermine the fairness of the trial; and
3. The only viable choice - there are no less intrusive alternatives; and
4. Necessary significantly to further important governmental trial-related issues. Assuming defendant is not dangerous to himself or others, the defendant cannot be ordered involuntarily to take antipsychotic drugs solely to render him competent to stand trial without consideration of these important questions. See, Sell v. United States (2003),123 S. Ct. 2174.

Sell v. United States, 539 U.S. 166 (2003)

Sell v. United States

supreme.justia.com

 

[Leilei]

No fentanyl, and no way to measure the amount of K2 either. It could have been consumed that morning, or weeks ago. K2 has a half life of 41 days and can be detectable for weeks in the system. We, nor Dr Harris or the paid defence expert, have no way to tell how much K2 was present in JN system when he was killed.

I knew it, just wanted confirmation, so thank you for answering

 

[Love Never Fails]

Well he didn't any other day. Penny way over subdued him in relation to the threat, IMO. Neely was malnourished and smaller than him to boot.

People high on drugs are very powerful, especially on meth. They can easily kill and overpower others. This is an argument you won’t win. Neely at one time, on another day, punched a woman in the face and broke several bones. Had he gone to prison for that, he may have gotten clean and be alive today. He was his own worst enemy. Read Seattle’s post above, if what you really want is justice for others.

<modsnip: Stop the personalizing in this discussion>

 

[Lilibet]

And maybe he would have killed someone because of the fentanyl and/or other drugs in his system.

People high on drugs are very powerful, especially on meth.

As far as I know Mr Neely had K2 in his system in a dose not able to be determined. I don’t recall fentanyl or meth ever being mentioned, but you are implying he had used those drugs. Why are you making his drug use worse than it was? Either provide a link or it isn’t true. Thank you.

 

[jepop]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Chundru just gave an opinion not absolute facts. Imo Chundru makes money being a paid mouthpiece for defense attorneys. And Chundru did not testify to holding any specific specialist qualification re sickle cell disease. IMOO.

Moo numbers unknown but some jurors definitely found the MEs expertise credible, reasonable and learned as compared with Chundru. All moo

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The attitudes, snark, back and forth bickering and personalizing in this thread needs to STOP.

Also a reminder that JN's family are not on trial here.

When you have had a loved one die at the hands of another, a civil lawsuit isn't necessarily about the almighty $$ ... it is about holding the person responsible to the nth degree as the only legal remedy available to you.

 

[Leilei]

People high on drugs are very powerful, especially on meth. They can easily kill and overpower others. This is an argument you won’t win. Neely at one time, on another day, punched a woman in the face and broke several bones. Had he gone to prison for that, he may have gotten clean and be alive today. He was his own worst enemy. Read Seattle’s post above, if what you really want is justice for others.

<modsnip: Stop the personalizing in this discussion>

There was no meth in his system.
Even if there WAS, what he "coulda/woulda" done doesn't matter, because he did not kill or overpower anyone.
The only person overpowered and killed in that subway car was Mr. Neely.
IMO.

 

[Marysmith]

There was no meth in his system.
Even if there WAS, what he "coulda/woulda" done doesn't matter, because he did not kill or overpower anyone.
The only person overpowered and killed in that subway car was Mr. Neely.
IMO.

Yep. Neely didn't even touch anyone else or talk to anyone else or threaten anyone directly. He was likely talking to voices in his head from his schizophrenia and responding. Then a stranger came up from behind him and put him in a chokehold.
It's unbelievable to me the comments on this thread thinking this is ok in any regard. Jordan Neely is the victim.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I believe that it's probable that Jordan Neely died of natural causes. I'm hoping that tomorrow brings an acquittal for Danial Penny so he can try to go on with his life.

JMO.

 

[HmmMysterious]

I believe that it's probable that Jordan Neely died of natural causes. I'm hoping that tomorrow brings an acquittal for Danial Penny so he can try to go on with his life.

JMO.

If that's true, then how strange that JN died of natural causes right at that particular moment when DP had him in a chokehold and not anytime else