NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Dotta]

"Daniel Penny spends Thanksgiving with family
as jury prepares to deliver manslaughter verdict over subway killing."

Marine on trial for subway killing spends Thanksgiving with family

Daniel Penny 's family said they were left in awe at his strength as he spent Thanksgiving with them despite a jury in New York preparing to deliberate his manslaughter case.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jepop]

Its so obscene that money is being celebrated as the officiant in this case.

That money will buy the case for Daniel Penny that otherwise The People will win their case. The horror a jury may decide the fate as charged.

Equally they both as citizens walked on to the subway and instead of how it’s decided in courts throughout the nation now it’s tipped with outside interference to the perceived better than.

At least a life long neglected, starving, thirsty, tired, mentally exhausted man who is killed by a attacker cost millions and millions of dollars before DP and fans can buy the case. Or try to hadn’t bought it yet.

The donors bought a pig in a poke with Daniel Penny lying to investigators, imo, but the bought victory crowd won’t be bothered, imo.

It does seem the Defense could have bought some witnesses beyond mom and sister who like with Richard Allen were predictably not applicable to the person acting in the crime that day.

Yes, I’m sure the attorney team will leave plentiful funds for a token charitable donation, lol. That will insure there’s no funds for a civil case.

Marine Veteran Misused a Combat Technique in Fatal Chokehold of NYC Subway Rider, Trainer Testifies

Attorneys for Daniel Penny argue their client had sought to restrain Neely by placing him in a headlock, but that he did not apply strong force throughout the interaction.

www.military.com

All imo

Thanks for cutting it back to what moo really matters from a justice perspective.

Moo, An impartial jury will consider the evidence, weigh the credibility of the witnesses where there is conflicting testimony ( as there certainly is in this case regarding witnesses to the 'taking down' of the victim), consider the defendant's interview and those portions of it where there is obfuscation, distancing and misdirection. Jmo

The jury will also consider the credibility of Dr Chundru as compared with ME.

Most importantly, I believe an impartial jury will take their duties seriously and follow the charging instructions. They will understand that DP is accused of manslaughter 2nd degree; therefore intent is not up for consideration. But evidence of a reckless indifference where a reasonable person would otherwise know there was potential to cause gbh or death to JN during the aftermath of the 'taking down' ( 6 minute chokehold), is what is up for consideration. The lesser charge of criminal negligence is also something the jury will be required to consider. Moo.

JN's arrest history is irrelevant to the charges the jury will consider in respect of the defendant, moo. This is not something DP was privy to, as has been pointed out countless times.

Looking forward to closing arguments.

Here for JN, his grieving family and accountability. What happened to JN was preventable, not a foregone conclusion. What happened to JN was not ok. Moo what happened to JN would not have happened if defendant had been personally accountable for his actions in the Six minutes after the 'taking down', and released the hold as was urged of him by others. Reckless indifference to the victim's well-being and life is on the table here for the jury's consideration. Moo.

 

[GRT]

MOO: I think he will be acquitted. And as a female, petite NYC commuter with easily 1,000+ MTA rides under my belt - who has seen firsthand how terrifying the unchecked post-COVID mental health situation underground has gotten - if I ever see Daniel Penny walk into a car, I’m walking in right behind him and sitting next to him.

I'm leaning in that direction, too.

Or, at least, he should be acquitted--if the jury understands Dr. Chundru's testimony.

Juries can do unexpected things, but I don't think there's any BARD left in this case.

All MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I’m a solid not guilty. Have been since the start.
I’ve stayed silent on here about this case because I can not believe he was charged to begin with.
I see it as a malicious prosecution and the entire situation an EPIC FAILURE of government.
The country needs more people like Daniel Penny.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I’m a solid not guilty. Have been since the start.
I’ve stayed silent on here about this case because I can not believe he was charged to begin with.
I see it as a malicious prosecution and the entire situation an EPIC FAILURE of government.
The country needs more people like Daniel Penny.

I couldn't possibly agree more.
My bigger concern at this point is what happens if he's found guilty.
That sends a loud and clear message across the city (and country, really) that if you see someone posing a threat & you step in, be prepared to be the next guy in jail for trying to protect innocent bystanders.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

It was fine with Bragg if Neely was roaming free to entertain or attack people. I'd charge Bragg with his own failures, NOT Daniel Penny.

jmo

 

[Snoopster]

I couldn't possibly agree more.
My bigger concern at this point is what happens if he's found guilty.
That sends a loud and clear message across the city (and country, really) that if you see someone posing a threat & you step in, be prepared to be the next guy in jail for trying to protect innocent bystanders.

jmo

Respectfully, I disagree. I think it sends a message that intervention should be proportionate. This shouldn't be an open season to kill someone because they are acting out. If the threat is dissipated, you shouldn't continue on to kill the person. Obviously this is JMO and I understand that people are happy that JP stepped in. My take is that he took things too far.
I'm sorry for all parties.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The details were much different but a couple of days ago I had an elderly lady in a wheelchair ask me for assistance at the grocery store. A completely stranger but she needed help so I said yes. For a split second I thought about this case, and wondered what might happen if something went terribly wrong while I was trying to help her. I quickly blew it off because I was only helping with loading a few grocery bags but the thought did come back a few times before I was done.

The only point of sharing that was because if it makes me worried (a nearly 60 year old grandma) to help another person who genuinely needs help, how much more would a DP guilty verdict & jail time worry a young man or woman with their whole lives ahead of them? I don't think that's a helpful message to send out to society.

It's already terrible that JN didn't get the mental health help he needed, and it's even more tragically terrible he died that day. I really hope the jury doesn't make it even more terrible and destroy a young man's life.

jmo

 

[Marysmith]

The details were much different but a couple of days ago I had an elderly lady in a wheelchair ask me for assistance at the grocery store. A completely stranger but she needed help so I said yes. For a split second I thought about this case, and wondered what might happen if something went terribly wrong while I was trying to help her. I quickly blew it off because I was only helping with loading a few grocery bags but the thought did come back a few times before I was done.

The only point of sharing that was because if it makes me worried (a nearly 60 year old grandma) to help another person who genuinely needs help, how much more would a DP guilty verdict & jail time worry a young man or woman with their whole lives ahead of them? I don't think that's a helpful message to send out to society.

It's already terrible that JN didn't get the mental health help he needed, and it's even more tragically terrible he died that day. I really hope the jury doesn't make it even more terrible and destroy a young man's life.

jmo

There's been many cases that have polarized people before, like the George Zimmerman trial, etc... and there will probably be more unfortunately. We all have our own feelings and opinions.
If someone doesn't feel comfortable helping someone because of this case that's up to them individually and their comfort level. It's not a crime to not help someone that asks for help.
Penny held him for a very long time, 6 minutes, and others were telling him to stop and he didn't. The threat seemed to be over at that time - and clearly was. Obviously there are many factors but we all make decisions and have to face the consequences of those decisions.
We will see what the jury decides.

 

[LinasK]

Respectfully, I disagree. I think it sends a message that intervention should be proportionate. This shouldn't be an open season to kill someone because they are acting out. If the threat is dissipated, you shouldn't continue on to kill the person. Obviously this is JMO and I understand that people are happy that JP stepped in. My take is that he took things too far.
I'm sorry for all parties.

Agreed. We should't be a society that promotes vigilantism.

 

[CooperDyl]

Agreed. We should't be a society that promotes vigilantism.

But we also shouldn’t be a society that can’t offer help to people in JN’s position in the first place. There’s absolutely no winners in this situation. JN should not be dead, and the city and state should fault themselves for their failure in that. Whether DP is found guilty or innocent, he will forever be known as the man that killed JN, and have to live with that guilt and the hatred of many who disagree with his actions on that day. JN’s family are left without him forever. DP’s family may be watching their son sent to prison, and either way will no doubt spend the rest of their lives hearing opinions about their son’s actions. The people on the train that day will forever be haunted, same as bystanders and law enforcement.

It’s a terrible situation that never should have been allowed to eventuate, with the failure to support JN in his mental wellness the biggest failure of all, imo.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
This guy was an absolute menace, and should not have been on the streets. I'm glad that he won't have any more victims, although the result was unfortunate. It's very easy to look at this situation and say that Penny shouldn't have gone as far as he did, but we're talking about a highly emotional and stressful situation where logic takes a bit of a backseat. I do hope this doesn't deter people from stepping in during situations like this, as all too often that does not happen. People ignore what is going on, or worse, pull out their damn phones.

I hope the verdict is not guilty, something I rarely say on here.

 

[Snoopster]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

<modsnip - response to quoted post removed>

Some people, including me, are criticizing DP for getting carried away and killing JN. We all want people to step up. But at least some of us want people not to kill people who were no longer a deadly threat.

I have stepped up in a number of situations (as a middle-aged and as an older-aged woman). I found a way not to kill the person. I will step in again, if needed, where people feel threatened. I'd be willing to put my own life on the line. But I would remain aware of the broader situation. I think DP lost sight of the 'broader situation' and kept his chokehold going despite people asking him to stop.

In the end we all want society to be a safe place. And clearly this case has made all of us uncomfortable. JN made comments and took actions that made people on the train feel threatened. These people moved off the train 30 seconds after JN was 'taken down'. So no one was at risk after that.

 

[Snoopster]

This guy was an absolute menace, and should not have been on the streets. I'm glad that he won't have any more victims, although the result was unfortunate. It's very easy to look at this situation and say that Penny shouldn't have gone as far as he did, but we're talking about a highly emotional and stressful situation where logic takes a bit of a backseat. I do hope this doesn't deter people from stepping in during situations like this, as all too often that does not happen. People ignore what is going on, or worse, pull out their damn phones.

I hope the verdict is not guilty, something I rarely say on here.

Agree that we don't want people to be afraid of stepping in.
I don't agree that this man deserved to die, particularly well after he was neutralized.

 

[MassGuy]

Agree that we don't want people to be afraid of stepping in.
I don't agree that this man deserved to die, particularly well after he was neutralized.

Oh I do not think this man deserved to die, but that was a product of the situation, and not Penny trying to kill him. For some people, time stops, and they lose situational awareness in similar circumstances. It's easy to look at it from a distance, but very different if you're there in the moment.

 

[Linda7NJ]

<modsnip - response to quoted post removed>

Some people, including me, are criticizing DP for getting carried away and killing JN. We all want people to step up. But at least some of us want people not to kill people who were no longer a deadly threat.

I have stepped up in a number of situations (as a middle-aged and as an older-aged woman). I found a way not to kill the person. I will step in again, if needed, where people feel threatened. I'd be willing to put my own life on the line. But I would remain aware of the broader situation. I think DP lost sight of the 'broader situation' and kept his chokehold going despite people asking him to stop.

In the end we all want society to be a safe place. And clearly this case has made all of us uncomfortable. JN made comments and took actions that made people on the train feel threatened. These people moved off the train 30 seconds after JN was 'taken down'. So no one was at risk after that.

Had Penny rendered him unconscious, got up, stood over him and shot him dead. I’d think he should be charged.
Not in the case though. No way.

Daniel Penny is a hero. IMO

 

[Snoopster]

Oh I do not think this man deserved to die, but that was a product of the situation, and not Penny trying to kill him. For some people, time stops, and they lose situational awareness in similar circumstances. It's easy to look at it from a distance, but very different if you're there in the moment.

I agree with the fact that people can lose sight of time during a stressful situation. But people asked him to stop and he didn't. I agree that this is a fine line and this case is 'challenging'. I just don't want to create an 'open season' on people who look threatening to me. This man was a trained Marine. He was supposedly trained to find the right balance and not go overboard. And yet he did go overboard.
Life is complex, isn't it?

 

[LinasK]

Oh I do not think this man deserved to die, but that was a product of the situation, and not Penny trying to kill him. For some people, time stops, and they lose situational awareness in similar circumstances. It's easy to look at it from a distance, but very different if you're there in the moment.

And that meets the definition of Manslaughter, which is what they decided to charge him with. Personally, I think it was murder.

 

[LinasK]

Had Penny rendered him unconscious, got up, stood over him and shot him dead. I’d think he should be charged.
Not in the case though. No way.

Daniel Penny is a hero. IMO

Why is the manner of death important? A chokehold is just as lethal as a gunshot.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Agree that we don't want people to be afraid of stepping in.
I don't agree that this man deserved to die, particularly well after he was neutralized.

Please point out where anyone here said that Neely deserved to die.