NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Jade]

It was DP’s hand that killed him, remove that and Jordan would have remained alive.

I agree its the "but-for" causation in law:

[...]

In legal matters, "but-for", "sine qua non", causa sine qua non,<a href="Sine qua non - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a> or "cause-in-fact" causation, or condicio sine qua non, is a circumstance in which a certain act is a material cause of a certain injury or wrongdoing, without which the injury would not have occurred. It is established by the "but-for" test: but for the act having occurred, the injury would not have happened.

>The defendant's negligent conduct is the actual cause of the plaintiff's injury if the harm would not have occurred to the plaintiff "but for" the negligent conduct of the defendant. (Perkins)>

[...]

Sine qua non - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Jade]

Dr Chundru covered his well paid bases by suggesting a combination of causes so he doesn't seem too sure himself it seems just NOT CHOKEHOLD, anything but the chokehold his client was pictured exerting for 6 minutes then past the time Jordan went limp.

[...]

Chundru was pressed Thursday by Manhattan Assistant District Attorney Dafna Yorna about his claim regarding the petechia on Neely’s eyelids — and eventually conceded that other medical professionals, including his mentor, did find that such symptoms were consistent with death by asphyxiation.

The prosecutor also grilled Chundru about whether the darker color of Neely’s face compared to his arms proved that blood wasn’t flowing to his head because his arteries and veins were being blocked as a result of the chokehold.

Yoran pointed to the bystander video where Neely’s face is darker than the rest of his skin as veins protrude from his forehead, and asked Chudru what he made of that.

“One suggestion is that he has some blockage, another suggestion is that he has a suntan,” Chundru said, before eventually agreeing with the prosecutor.

[...]

Jordan Neely’s cause of death wasn’t Daniel Penny chokehold — but ‘combined effects’ of drugs, struggle and schizophrenia: defense expert

Dr. Satish Chundru, a forensic pathologist based in Texas, told jurors in Manhattan Supreme Court that Neely's autopsy records and video of the fatal F train altercation in May 2023 didn't show signs typical of known chokehold deaths.

www.yahoo.com

all imo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Meanwhile, in NY Supreme Court...

"Jordan Neely’s father is suing Daniel Penny over his son’s chokehold death on a New York City subway car as the jury still deliberates whether or not to convict Penny of manslaughter. The suit, filed in New York Supreme Court on Wednesday, accuses the Long Island Marine veteran of negligent contact, assault and battery that caused injuries and Neely’s death last year." Jordan Neely’s father sues Daniel Penny as NYC jury deliberates verdict for subway chokehold death

Color me not surprised in the least.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Last few tweets from this thread:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864683212879872327

Faux Raiser: In order to asphyxiate a person to death requires sufficient pressure on both side, correct?
Faux Harris: It can vary, but it has to be sufficiently consistent long enough for the person to lose consciousness.

Faux Raiser: But the video can't tell you if the pressure was sufficiently consistent, can you?
Faux Harris: He died.
Faux Raiser: You testified to the Grand Jury in June and said, "I can't tell you how much pressure was applied." Do you recall?
Faux Harris: Yes

Judge Wiley: That concludes the read-back.
Juror, you are to retire and continue your deliberations.
Jury exits.
Officer: Thirteen floor, lock down. In the gallery, remain seated.
Daniel Penny and lawyers (and team including Get Gotti guy) file out

 

[shotgun09]

Thankfully, the dramatic readings by court reporters has ended. The jury can now return to their room, and discuss.

What they heard? According to ICP's read out, Harris did not 'need' the tox report, nor the Genetic testing from heart tissue, to come to her findings. Also, she did indeed testify to the Grand Jury that yes...she was unable to determine the amount of pressure that Penny was applying.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me...

MOO

 

[Dotta]

"Jordan Neely's parents
are suing Daniel Penny for assault and battery
after he died when he was held in a chokehold on NYC subway."

Jordan Neely's parents are suing Daniel Penny for assault and battery

Daniel Penny, 26, put Jordan Neely, 30, in a chokehold for nearly six minutes on May 1 last year after the homeless man started aggressively shouting at passengers on the subway.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[IceIce9]

Thankfully, the dramatic readings by court reporters has ended. The jury can now return to their room, and discuss.

What they heard? According to ICP's read out, Harris did not 'need' the tox report, nor the Genetic testing from heart tissue, to come to her findings. Also, she did indeed testify to the Grand Jury that yes...she was unable to determine the amount of pressure that Penny was applying.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me...

MOO

DBM

 

[Ontario Mom]

Thankfully, the dramatic readings by court reporters has ended. The jury can now return to their room, and discuss.

What they heard? According to ICP's read out, Harris did not 'need' the tox report, nor the Genetic testing from heart tissue, to come to her findings. Also, she did indeed testify to the Grand Jury that yes...she was unable to determine the amount of pressure that Penny was applying.

Sounds like reasonable doubt to me...

MOO

The fact that they asked about this specifically tells me there's loads of reasonable doubt.
Whether this cleared it up or made it stronger, remains to be seen.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

"Jordan Neely's parents are suing Daniel Penny for assault and battery"

RSBM

Rather misleading headline since his mother was murdered years ago. It's his father that filed the suit.

"Neely’s father, Andre Zachary, “demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction,” according to the lawsuit." Jordan Neely’s father sues Daniel Penny as NYC jury deliberates verdict for subway chokehold death

 

[mickey2942]

RSBM

Rather misleading headline since his mother was murdered years ago. It's his father that filed the suit.

"Neely’s father, Andre Zachary, “demands judgment awarding damages in a sum which exceeds the jurisdictional limits of all lower Courts which would otherwise have jurisdiction,” according to the lawsuit." Jordan Neely’s father sues Daniel Penny as NYC jury deliberates verdict for subway chokehold death

I thought Jordan Neely went into foster care after his mother was murdered? I guess that the state of New York CPS system could not find him at that time?

 

[shotgun09]

From ICP just now:

Update of 11:43 am - a note has been handed to the clerk, then now to ADA Dafna Yoran. Something is afoot

Update of 11:45 am - Daniel Penny, lawyers and team have come in. Court security officers milling around; admonitions to be quiet in the courtroom.Judge Wiley comes in.Judge: We have a note, the jurors want the Vasquez and Rosario videos

Judge: I'll send them in the laptop again. See you at the next note.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864712267025023118

ETA: Updated posts from ICP

 

[Linda7NJ]

They have a hold out ….eyeroll.

 

[shotgun09]

They have a hold out ….eyeroll.

...or a few hold outs

 

[DS2021]

They seem to be doing a thorough job

 

[shotgun09]

More From ICP:

Update of 12:09 pm - ADA Dafna Yoran comes back in and is handed a note, reads it. Now discussing with her colleague. Daniel Penny and his lawyers still not here.

Update of 12:12 pm - Daniel Penny is here and seated.Judge Wiley: We just got a note, We request that Judge Wiley read the definition of recklessness and negligence. And can we have them in writing. Do the parties give consent?

Both parties consent, to give the jury, in writing, the statutes and the jury instruction.
Judge: Bring in the jury.
Jury entering!
Judge: OK, I'll read to you. Recklessly, for manslaughter in the second degree...

Jury exits.
Judge Wiley: I'll get the jury instructions ready
Penny's lawyer Kenniff: The entire instruction, right?
Judge: Only on the two points they asked about. Do you consent?
[Kenniff briefly whispers with Penny then says]OK

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864722598992523468

 

[Ontario Mom]

I have to say I'm rather impressed with the specific questions the jury is asking. It seems clear to me they're trying to be as thorough as possible. I don't envy them this task, so even if I disagree with their verdict when it comes, I very much appreciate their service in this case.

jmo

 

[shotgun09]

More from ICP:
[While Judge Wiley works on jury instruction, ADA Dafna Yoran pulls out her cellphone.Court officer: Counsel, no cell phones. The Judge is on the bench.[ADA Yoran slowly walks out, talking on the phone]Kenniff: We only consent to part 2.Judge: Go get Ms. Yoran

ADA Dafna Yoran returns.
Judge: I think I need to call the jury back in to explain to them.
ADA Yoran: You can't get sent it?
Judge: I need to explain. Bring them in.
Jury entering!
Judge: What I'll send in will include justification too
Jury exits

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864724846854246764

 

[DS2021]

Inner City Press (@innercitypress.bsky.social)

[While Judge Wiley works on jury instruction, ADA Dafna Yoran pulls out her cellphone. Court officer: Counsel, no cell phones. The Judge is on the bench. [ADA Yoran slowly walks out, talking on the phone] Kenniff: We only consent to part 2. Judge: Go get Ms. Yoran

bsky.app

 

[Ontario Mom]

DBM - duplicate

 

[IDK]

Inner City Press (@innercitypress.bsky.social)

[While Judge Wiley works on jury instruction, ADA Dafna Yoran pulls out her cellphone. Court officer: Counsel, no cell phones. The Judge is on the bench. [ADA Yoran slowly walks out, talking on the phone] Kenniff: We only consent to part 2. Judge: Go get Ms. Yoran

bsky.app

View attachment 549343

One would think the ADA would know the guidelines about cellphones in court. IMO.