NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Ontario Mom]

Update of 10:27 am: Have been here in the courtroom for some time, still no sign of the judge, jury, ADAs or Danny Penny & his lawyers, presumably waiting in their room down the hall to be called in for a note or verdict. In the interim some exhibit & comparisons

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[mickey2942]

Exactly. And Penny pretty clearly lied deliberately.

People recount experiences based on their own point of view. It is not "lying". He may have emphasized parts of the story, and minimized other actions, but that is not "lying". It was his interpretation of events.

Working with the population I do, lying is in shades of grey. People may omit details. But "lying" would have been, "I didn't do anything, I was not there".

 

[Ontario Mom]

Transcript of 9-1-1 call, belatedly put into the public docket this week: "someone started acting crazy on the train, talking about he's not afraid to go to jail, he's ready to hurt someone, and this guy put him in a chokehold to calm him down, so -

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[Ontario Mom]

People recount experiences based on their own point of view. It is not "lying". He may have emphasized parts of the story, and minimized other actions, but that is not "lying". It was his interpretation of events.

Working with the population I do, lying is in shades of grey. People may omit details. But "lying" would have been, "I didn't do anything, I was not there".

I suspect Penny experienced the same or similar issue that happens with eyewitnesses, as it pertains to his recall of what he did, when, how, etc. While adrenaline is rushing, you're not thinking critically or rationally, you're in auto-pilot. Coming down off that rush, and recalling exactly what happened isn't the easiest thing in the world. I don't think he intentionally lied to anyone about anything. I think he relayed the details of events the best way he remembered them.

jmo

 

[GRT]

Anyone that follows true crime knows that as it relates to descriptions.

This witness was talking about direct interaction.

Respectfully snipped for focus...

Not exactly. Studies have shown that childhood memories of sexual assault can be implanted during therapy when they never occurred. Memories can be false for several reasons. Read the link I posted.

The mother on the train may not have heard JN say that—I'm not accusing her of lying. We need to be careful when we start making assumptions. Likewise, DP might have remembered slightly differently than the timeline shows, but that, too, doesn't mean he's lying.

The jury will do what the jury will do. And, there's a reason why they've come back and asked for clarifications--because their memories are not perfect. We're all human after all.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Update of 11:01 am - ADA Dafna Yoran has just walked into the courtroom. She has been handed a single page. Now Daniel Penny and his lawyers / team walk in. [The Penny team member who was on Netflix' Get Gotti is in a sweater today, not suit]

Judge: We have received a note from the jury, We would like instruction from Judge Wiley, we are unable to reach a unanimous verdict on Count 1. Parties?
Penny's lawyer Kenniff: They shouldn't consider Count 2.
Judge: I have to give them an Allen charge

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[shotgun09]

dbm dup

 

[Ontario Mom]

"When jurors cannot agree on a verdict and report this to a judge, the judge may issue further instruction to them to encourage those in the minority to reconsider their position. These instructions are known as an Allen charge or, more casually, as a dynamite charge."

What is an Allen (or "dynamite") charge?

When jurors cannot agree on a verdict and report this to a judge, the judge may issue further instruction to them to encourage those in the minority to reconsider their position.

fija.org

 

[shotgun09]

Who would have thought that they would be hung?
LOL

 

[jepop]

Jurors will have an impression of DPs demeanour during questioning in police interview. They're free to discuss how he came across to them; just a little confused? obfuscating, misleading and distancing during critical questions? Personally I know how he came across to me. He was being deceptive and misleading. I think this jury is being extremely thorough and I don't think they will try to perform mental gymnastics when it comes to what Daniel Penny said in that interview. They may well note his demeanour, distancing and runaway sentences during critical questions. Given this jury's clear commitment to Impartially considering the evidence in this case, I'm sure they will weigh up DP's cred vs the the young mother where there is conflicting testimony Jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

ADA Dafna Yoran: It would be a crazy result that they can't move on to Count 2.
Judge: I have to ask them to try to reach a verdict on Count 1. Do you want time?
ADA Yoran: Let me talk to my colleagues. [Bragg?]

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[Ontario Mom]

[As ADA Dafna Yoran works her phone, here's from the NYS CPL:"...the court must terminate the deliberation and order the jury to render a partial verdict with respect to those offenses and defendants upon which or with respect to whom it has reached a verdict"

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[shotgun09]

"Alvin Bragg......you have a phone call on line 1 "

smh

 

[cocomod]

 

[Ontario Mom]

Who would have thought that they would be hung?
LOL

I was unsure at first. But after all this time, the overwhelming majority opinion I've seen on all social media platforms is highly in favor of seeing Penny found not guilty. Does that mean the jury is the same? Who knows. It's possible the hold outs are the ones feeling this way and the majority have already decided he's guilty.

jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

Do we have a copy of verdict form the jury was given? What was listed as charge 1 and charge 2?

 

[shotgun09]

Do we have a copy of verdict form the jury was given? What was listed as charge 1 and charge 2?

Not official, but I believe the counts are:

1. Second degree manslaughter: Penny acted recklessly unlike a reasonable person would act.
2. Criminally negligent homicide: Failure to perceive actions would result in loss of life.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Do we have a copy of verdict form the jury was given? What was listed as charge 1 and charge 2?

The Manhattan jury deliberating Daniel Penny’s case in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a New York City subway last year is deadlocked on the manslaughter charge, according to a note the panel sent to the court Friday. The 12-person jury sent the note marking its impasse after 16 hours of deliberating since they got the case Tuesday afternoon. The judge and the parties are conferring over how to respond.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/06/us/daniel-penny-jordan-neely-trial-verdict/index.html#:~:text=Penny%2C%2026%2C%20faces%20one%20count,2023%2C%20and%20began%20acting%20erratically.

 

[Leilei]

Not official, but I believe the counts are:

1. Second degree manslaughter: Penny acted recklessly unlike a reasonable person would act.
2. Criminally negligent homicide: Failure to perceive actions would result in loss of life.

What would punishment be if convicted on count 2 only?

 

[sandcastle00]

What would punishment be if convicted on count 2 only?

I believe up to 4 years in jail