Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Izzylizzy]

Again, I will disagree with JN being brain dead when LE arrived. There is no clinical proof that he was brain dead, and I don't believe you can determine without a doubt (which is the language for determining guilt) that seeing a video is proof.

According to the ME when you've been deprived of oxygen for 6 mins, lifeless, not breathing, unresponsive (LE was yelling at him and vigorously shaking his chest to try and rouse him)
have a faint pulse which then vanishes.

Brain dead perfectly fits what happened to JN and how the brain dies from lack of oxygen and the results of what happens to the body and brain minute by minute.

It's "beyond a reasonable doubt'".

The jury would have to believe "beyond a reasonable doubt'" that it was K2 and/or sickle cell that killed JN and not being deprived of oxygen for 6 mins with the video that shows the torturous process that lead to the state Penny left JN in and LE found him in.

 

[Donswife48]

I didn't say that he wasn't a perceived threat. The solution is to move away- NOT perform a lethal choke hold and play vigilante. I was able to dodge my aggressor by simply ducking into a public food court. PS, I'm female too. My avatar is of my murdered cousin, who was male.

As a non-native NY, (example a tourist) how would I know where to retreat or escape? I appreciate the fact that DP was on the subway when Neeley entered. Obviously, LE through their actions in halfheartedly trying to revive Neeley might confirm my conviction. Why aren't they more concerned with helping Neeley and actively administering medical assistance to keep him alive?

 

[LinasK]

As a non-native NY, (example a tourist) how would I know where to retreat or escape? I appreciate the fact that DP was on the subway when Neeley entered. Obviously, LE through their actions in halfheartedly trying to revive Neeley might confirm my conviction. Why aren't they more concerned with helping Neeley and actively administering medical assistance to keep him alive?

I don't live in NY either, but other cities have subways that I've been on. Human instinct is to move to a different car to get away from the threat, or just not get on that particular train and wait for the next one. I can't tell you why LE didn't react more pro-actively other than the attitude I've seen that "his pants were dirty"/they concluded that he was already dead/brain-dead.
Also, I WAS a tourist, alone in the city I was approached in, I used my head to locate the food court right by me. I didn't know the area well.

 

[Lilibet]

As a non-native NY, (example a tourist) how would I know where to retreat or escape? I appreciate the fact that DP was on the subway when Neeley entered. Obviously, LE through their actions in halfheartedly trying to revive Neeley might confirm my conviction. Why aren't they more concerned with helping Neeley and actively administering medical assistance to keep him alive?

No one here has argued that DP was wrong to restrain Mr Neely. That was the right thing to do under the circumstances. He has not been charged for restraining Mr Neely, but for using a chokehold in a way that resulted in Mr Neely’s death. Please go back and read the charges that I’ve posted several times and that include definitions.

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Seriously, what's the point with this defense at this point in the trial?
There's been 6 character witnesses so far and the death of JN that DP is charged with has absolutely nothing to do with their favorable testimonies about him.
Maybe there's a lack of defense experts so they're filling up time?

Daniel Penny’s mom joins Marine vets to vouch for his character on stand: ‘Beyond reproach’

Daniel Penny’s mom told Manhattan jurors Tuesday she tried to instill values of “honesty, humility and kindness” in her son — as other kin and pals continued to vouch for his character at his mansl…

nypost.com

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

Seriously, what's the point with this defense at this point in the trial?
There's been 6 character witnesses so far and the death of JN that DP is charged with has absolutely nothing to do with their favorable testimonies about him.
Maybe there's a lack of defense experts so they're filling up time?

Daniel Penny’s mom joins Marine vets to vouch for his character on stand: ‘Beyond reproach’

Daniel Penny’s mom told Manhattan jurors Tuesday she tried to instill values of “honesty, humility and kindness” in her son — as other kin and pals continued to vouch for his character at his mansl…

nypost.com

jmo

I am wondering the same thing. Usually you see character witnesses before sentencing. And I don’t see what the psychiatrist added to the defense. Penny couldn’t have known any of this. And none of this, including fears of the passengers, has anything to do with the charges.

Daniel Penny’s mom joins Marine vets to vouch for his character on stand: ‘Beyond reproach’

Daniel Penny’s mom told Manhattan jurors Tuesday she tried to instill values of “honesty, humility and kindness” in her son — as other kin and pals continued to vouch for his character at his mansl…

nypost.com

The defense spent the afternoon also questioning forensic psychiatrist Alexander Bardey, who told the court he’d reviewed thousands of pages of medical records from Neely.

Neely reported to doctors during his 2021 hospitalization for schizophrenia that he’d heard the “devil’s voice,” according to a copy of a record shown to jurors.

A witness earlier in the trial described Neely’s rant on the subway car that day as “satanic,” and other straphangers have said they feared for their lives and for their small children during the dead man’s rampage through the train.

 

[Donswife48]

Seriously, what's the point with this defense at this point in the trial?
There's been 6 character witnesses so far and the death of JN that DP is charged with has absolutely nothing to do with their favorable testimonies about him.
Maybe there's a lack of defense experts so they're filling up time?

Daniel Penny’s mom joins Marine vets to vouch for his character on stand: ‘Beyond reproach’

Daniel Penny’s mom told Manhattan jurors Tuesday she tried to instill values of “honesty, humility and kindness” in her son — as other kin and pals continued to vouch for his character at his mansl…

nypost.com

jmo

Because character witnesses are essential to revealing DP's life, and how he lived it, how he believed. It's not a stretch at all to want to tell a jury about his character. What does Neeleys character reveal? Even his family didn't support him, he was in and out of trouble. The entire event has been presented by the prosecution, there is no lying about the videos, the witnesses have testified. What more do you want from the defense. The proof is there, it's up to the jury to decide but they deserve to know the person that DP is, and the person that Neeley was. JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Say wha?

'Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely'​

Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely

This week, Daniel Penny was finally portrayed in court as a peaceful, compassionate man hardwired to intervene on behalf of strangers in peril.

nypost.com

 

[LinasK]

Because character witnesses are essential to revealing DP's life, and how he lived it, how he believed. It's not a stretch at all to want to tell a jury about his character. What does Neeleys character reveal? Even his family didn't support him, he was in and out of trouble. The entire event has been presented by the prosecution, there is no lying about the videos, the witnesses have testified. What more do you want from the defense. The proof is there, it's up to the jury to decide but they deserve to know the person that DP is, and the person that Neeley was. JMO

Even IF Neely was a criminal, or even a murderer, it wasn't up to Daniel Penny to be judge, jury, and executioner! That's what the justice system is for. No one could know Neely's intentions prior to an act of violence, that's why LE doesn't charge crimes before they are committed.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

As a non-native NY, (example a tourist) how would I know where to retreat or escape? I appreciate the fact that DP was on the subway when Neeley entered. Obviously, LE through their actions in halfheartedly trying to revive Neeley might confirm my conviction. Why aren't they more concerned with helping Neeley and actively administering medical assistance to keep him alive?

I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your last question? Are you implying that LE didn't think JN's life was valuable, which confirms his death at Penny's hands was justified?
Genuinely trying to understand your post, not trying to be rude or personal, im just not sure how to interpret your post.

 

[Ontario Mom]

"Neely, who also had a history of violence, was a danger to himself — and to other New Yorkers. Penny sensed that. And, despite the DA’s assertions in opening statements that he “didn’t recognize [Neely’s] humanity,” the ex Marine saw humanity all around him on that F train in May of 2023 and decided to act."

Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely

This week, Daniel Penny was finally portrayed in court as a peaceful, compassionate man hardwired to intervene on behalf of strangers in peril.

nypost.com

 

[LinasK]

"Neely, who also had a history of violence, was a danger to himself — and to other New Yorkers. Penny sensed that. And, despite the DA’s assertions in opening statements that he “didn’t recognize [Neely’s] humanity,” the ex Marine saw humanity all around him on that F train in May of 2023 and decided to act."

Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely

This week, Daniel Penny was finally portrayed in court as a peaceful, compassionate man hardwired to intervene on behalf of strangers in peril.

nypost.com

Sorry, I can't agree with the NY Post's assertions that someone who performs a knowingly lethal choke hold and fails to release it is a "peaceful, compassionate man who sees humanity in all".

 

[Lilibet]

Say wha?

'Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely'​

Defense shows Daniel Penny saw the humanity in everyone on the F train — not just Jordan Neely

This week, Daniel Penny was finally portrayed in court as a peaceful, compassionate man hardwired to intervene on behalf of strangers in peril.

nypost.com

This is an editorial masquerading as a news article.

 

[Donswife48]

I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your last question? Are you implying that LE didn't think JN's life was valuable, which confirms his death at Penny's hands was justified?
Genuinely trying to understand your post, not trying to be rude or personal, im just not sure how to interpret your post.

Yes, I think that LE didn't think JN's life was valuable. DP didn't know Neely, or his intentions, only what Neely said. Do you think that DP didn't perceive Neely was a threat to DP personally. Forget about everyone else, isn't it reasonable to do what you can to protect yourself?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Because character witnesses are essential to revealing DP's life, and how he lived it, how he believed. It's not a stretch at all to want to tell a jury about his character. What does Neeleys character reveal? Even his family didn't support him, he was in and out of trouble. The entire event has been presented by the prosecution, there is no lying about the videos, the witnesses have testified. What more do you want from the defense. The proof is there, it's up to the jury to decide but they deserve to know the person that DP is, and the person that Neeley was. JMO

Neely's character? I think that's a difficult question because JN was schizophrenic and unemedicated, which I believe hugely contributed to his violent crimes. He had well documented mental health issues and was considered dangerous due to these issues, I don't think that we can really judge his character by this, when he was medicated he was said to be a pretty sweet guy. His mental health doesn't speak to his character IMO.
Sadly he was let down, like so many others, by a lack of services, and he ended up paying with his life.
This doesn't negate the awful damage inflicted on other innocent victims by JN, and he most certainly had the potential to be dangerous, I just think we should be objective and ask ourselves if he would have been dangerous and violent if he wasn't unmedicated and suffering. Maybe there are people who knew him before that would be willing to stand up and testify to his good character?.

 

[Izzylizzy]

This is an editorial masquerading as a news article.

Exactly, the NYPost

 

[Lilibet]

Even IF Neely was a criminal, or even a murderer, it wasn't up to Daniel Penny to be judge, jury, and executioner! That's what the justice system is for. No one could know Neely's intentions prior to an act of violence, that's why LE doesn't charge crimes before they are committed.

And I will add that even if Penny is a saint, that in no way relates to what he is charged with. We don’t find defendants guilty or not guilty because of their character. If people had testified that Penny was a jerk, that has no bearing on this case, anymore than Mr Neely’s history is relevant once Mr Penny began his chokehold and held it for too long.

As a reminder yet again, this is what Penny is charged with:

'Manslaughter in the second degree'
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.15 Manslaughter in the second degree.

A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or

3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.

Manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony.

SECTION 125.10
Criminally negligent homicide
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.

A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.

Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.
The New York State Senate
————————-
Recklessly— recklessly
in a way that is dangerous and shows that you are not thinking about the risks and possible results of your behavior:

Criminally negligent— What Is Criminal Negligence?
Criminal negligence (sometimes called culpable negligence) refers to a defendant who acts in disregard of a serious risk of harm that a reasonable person in the same situation would have perceived. Another common definition includes an act that amounts to a gross deviation from the general standard of care.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Yes, I think that LE didn't think JN's life was valuable. DP didn't know Neely, or his intentions, only what Neely said. Do you think that DP didn't perceive Neely was a threat to DP personally. Forget about everyone else, isn't it reasonable to do what you can to protect yourself?

If you go back and read any of my posts, you will see that at no point have I said that I believe DP was wrong to step in, I don't. What I do believe is that he went too far and should have let JN go way before he did. JN was restrained by 3 men and the passengers in the car had all left train, at least two people had told Penny to let go, and one warned him he was killing Neely.

Both things can be true.

 

[Ontario Mom]

At this point, if I'm on the jury? Daniel Penny is going home.

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

Yes, I think that LE didn't think JN's life was valuable. DP didn't know Neely, or his intentions, only what Neely said. Do you think that DP didn't perceive Neely was a threat to DP personally. Forget about everyone else, isn't it reasonable to do what you can to protect yourself?

BBM

As I’ve said before…

No one here has argued that DP was wrong to restrain Mr Neely. That was the right thing to do under the circumstances. He has not been charged for restraining Mr Neely, but for using a chokehold in a way that resulted in Mr Neely’s death. Please go back and read the charges that I’ve posted several times and that include definitions.

I’ve posted the charges again for everyone’s convenience.