Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Izzylizzy]

Neely was deceased before medics arrived.

"Medics could be seen in the video using different methods to try to bring Neely back, including chest compressions, CPR, a defibrillator machine and an injection of Narcan."

Tejada testified that Neely initially had a “faint pulse” when first responders arrived — but that officers could no longer find a pulse minutes later."

Bodycam video shown in Daniel Penny trial shows medics trying to revive lifeless Jordan Neely

The video was shown to jurors in Penny’s highly charged manslaughter trial in Manhattan Supreme Court in the May 2023 death of subway busker Neely.

nypost.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Yes, he appeared homeless and most likely a drug user plus it's no longer recommended for resuscitating someone.

Do you know if DP or one of the men holding down JP put him in a recovery position then left his lifeless body like that?

DP did tell the officer that "I took him out".

I think he said "I took him down" which I think is an important difference.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I think he said "I took him down" which I think is an important difference.

Marine, a former Long Islander, demonstrated how he put ...​

Newsday
https://www.newsday.com › News › New York



Oct 3, 2024 — "He was threatening everybody," Penny can be heard on the footage, making a headlock gesture with his arms. "I took him out." According to ..

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Marine, a former Long Islander, demonstrated how he put ...​

Newsday
https://www.newsday.com › News › New York



Oct 3, 2024 — "He was threatening everybody," Penny can be heard on the footage, making a headlock gesture with his arms. "I took him out." According to ..

Seems like we have both read differing accounts, and this is different again. I wish the reporting was consistent because there is an important distinction between each phrase.

Daniel Penny tells police 'I put him out' in never-before-seen video as subway chokehold trial gets underway

Daniel Penny is charged in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely in a NYC subway. Opening statements were delivered on Friday.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Seems like we have both read differing accounts, and this is different again. I wish the reporting was consistent because there is an important distinction between each phrase.

Daniel Penny tells police 'I put him out' in never-before-seen video as subway chokehold trial gets underway

Daniel Penny is charged in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely in a NYC subway. Opening statements were delivered on Friday.

abcnews.go.com

The "I put him out" is on LE's audio/body cam.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Penny's defense is going the George Floyd drug/disease route.
JN had synthetic K2 in his system and like Floyd he had Sickle cell disease.
Those 2 things is what caused Floyd's/Neely's respiratory failure not the knee or chokehold.

That worked out well for Chauvin, 22.5 yrs.

NYC subway chokehold death trial begins: Daniel Penny faces manslaughter charges

Video of beloved street performer Jordan Neely's violent death gained national attention and sparked days of protest in New York City.

www.usatoday.com

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/01/us/daniel-penny-trial-jordan-neely-death/index.html#:~:text=Lawyers%20for%20Penny%20plan%20to,Neely's%20death%20in%20May%202023.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Seems like we have both read differing accounts, and this is different again. I wish the reporting was consistent because there is an important distinction between each phrase.

Daniel Penny tells police 'I put him out' in never-before-seen video as subway chokehold trial gets underway

Daniel Penny is charged in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely in a NYC subway. Opening statements were delivered on Friday.

abcnews.go.com

By all accounts, an officer asked Penny how Neely ended up there on the floor and Penny responded he (Penny) did that. How he worded it doesn't matter, but what he meant is what matters - that he was the one who did that. He was simply stating the facts that he restrained him and took him down (to the floor).

 

[lonetraveler]

DP wasn't criminally charged for "stepping in/up"
He was charged with killing Jordan Neely.
2 charges.

'Manslaughter in the second degree'
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.15 Manslaughter in the second degree.

A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or

3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.

Manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony.

SECTION 125.10
Criminally negligent homicide
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.

A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.

Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.
The New York State Senate

I'm fully aware that he isn't charged with stepping up but rather the results of stepping up.

 

[Izzylizzy]

By all accounts, an officer asked Penny how Neely ended up there on the floor and Penny responded he (Penny) did that. How he worded it doesn't matter, but what he meant is what matters - that he was the one who did that. He was simply stating the facts that he restrained him and took him down (to the floor).

In a trail it does matter what one says and LE has DP on body cam/audio saying "I took him out" as Neely was laying lifeless on the floor.
He never said "I took him down".
It's been reported that DP showed LE how he took Neely down in the headchoke.

One can take someone "down" without taking them "out".

 

[Izzylizzy]

As said by the prosecution in opening statement that after Penny went way too far with the chokehold he just walked away and left a lifeless JN laying there and even though he's military trained that chokeholds can be deadly and the first aid needed he remained indifferent.

What To Do If Someone Goes Unconscious From a BJJ Choke

When someone faints and goes unconscious after a choke, he/she must be given immediate first aid to open his airways to breathe. A few-second delay can cause serious complications.

www.elitesports.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

I feel like between Penny and the two other guys who were assisting to hold Neely, they could easily have kept him subdued once he came round after 40 seconds, that would also give the othe passengers time to move cars. I believe the reports say that only 30 seconds passed between Penny placing the choke and the train arriving at the next stop? I would have to check back on that so don't take my word for it.

BBM:

"In response, “The defendant Daniel Penny took it upon himself to neutralize him. He wrapped his legs around Mr. Neely’s body and held him there. Seconds later the train arrived at the train station,” Yoran said. “With no one left to protect, the defendant nonetheless kept Mr. Neely in a deadly chokehold for an additional 5 minutes and 53 seconds.”

“He continued to choke Jordan Neely after Mr. Neely had lost consciousness.”

Penny has specialized training in chokeholds, “so he knew that continuing to choke Mr. Neely once he had already passed out could and would lead to his death,” Yoran said, detailing the defendant’s military background.

The prosecutor said Penny “went way too far.”

Daniel Penny’s lawyers argue he protected others, prosecutors say he ‘went too far’ as NYC subway manslaughter trial begins

During the first day of trial the lawyers for Daniel Penny are claiming that he protected others while prosecutors say he 'went to far.'

www.komu.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

By all accounts, an officer asked Penny how Neely ended up there on the floor and Penny responded he (Penny) did that. How he worded it doesn't matter, but what he meant is what matters - that he was the one who did that. He was simply stating the facts that he restrained him and took him down (to the floor).

I think the wording does matter. To me, "I put him out" suggests DP is explaining that he rendered JN unconscious and nothing more, whereas of he had said he "took him out" or "took him down" that suggests more aggressive intent, which I don't believe there was.
As I've said before this one is hard for me because I don't believe DP initially acted with malice at all, but I do believe there came a point where he overstepped, the train was stopped, people were warning him to let go, that he was in danger of killing Neely, and his training says he should have known it had been too long, and yet he didn't stop. I also believe that he still views his actions, even down to Neely's death, as just one of those things. He doesn't appear remorseful for the loss of life at all, and this wasn't a him or us situation, as much as Neely may have appeared threatening, he never actually made any move to attack anyone, and I believe DP actions were overkill. I think he needs to face some kind of consequence for his actions, but I also don't think he should go to jail.
It's complicated for me.

*This is all just my personal opinion, I have no links to show Penny's site of mind or whether he feels remorseful, or is as indifferent as he appears and I'm not stating as fact. My opinion on his attitude afterwards is just how I have perceived it from his interviews and reports.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Replace Chauvin's defense with Penny's defense and Floyd with Neely and expect another battle of the so-called experts to testify.

"Derek Chauvin's defense argument that George Floyd died solely from drugs and medical problems did not work because, despite the presence of drugs in Floyd's system, the overwhelming medical expert consensus concluded that the primary cause of death was asphyxiation due to the police restraint applied by Chauvin, which significantly limited Floyd's ability to breathe, and not the drugs themselves; the video evidence of the incident also played a major role in demonstrating the direct impact of Chauvin's actions on Floyd's death. "

why didn't derek chauvins defense work that floyd died of drugs and meical problems? - Google Search

 

[Ontario Mom]

I think the wording does matter. To me, "I put him out" suggests DP is explaining that he rendered JN unconscious and nothing more, whereas of he had said he "took him out" or "took him down" that suggests more aggressive intent, which I don't believe there was.
As I've said before this one is hard for me because I don't believe DP initially acted with malice at all, but I do believe there came a point where he overstepped, the train was stopped, people were warning him to let go, that he was in danger of killing Neely, and his training says he should have known it had been too long, and yet he didn't stop. I also believe that he still views his actions, even down to Neely's death, as just one of those things. He doesn't appear remorseful for the loss of life at all, and this wasn't a him or us situation, as much as Neely may have appeared threatening, he never actually made any move to attack anyone, and I believe DP actions were overkill. I think he needs to face some kind of consequence for his actions, but I also don't think he should go to jail.
It's complicated for me.

*This is all just my personal opinion, I have no links to show Penny's site of mind or whether he feels remorseful, or is as indifferent as he appears and I'm not stating as fact. My opinion on his attitude afterwards is just how I have perceived it from his interviews and reports.

I was responding to why Penny said anything in the first place. He was asked by an officer why Neely was on the floor, and he responded to explain he's the one who put him there. I took him out, I put him out, I put him down, etc. I have LE family and friends and most use the same interchangable phrases when they're talking about neutralizing a threat & restraining someone. Not killing someone, but removing their ability to hurt anyone else. The way the exchange happened with Penny & the officer (as I've seen reported) I took it that that's exactly what he was trying to say.

As for whether he's remorseful or not, my guess would be that he is. I'd think someone who accidentally killed another person would most definitely be sorry it happened (unless they're a serial killer or simply a sociopath) - even if they're not sorry for the actions they took that they believed were warranted at the time. I've never seen a link to confirm that he's not remorseful so, until or unless I do, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

jmo

 

[lonetraveler]

I think the wording does matter. To me, "I put him out" suggests DP is explaining that he rendered JN unconscious and nothing more, whereas of he had said he "took him out" or "took him down" that suggests more aggressive intent, which I don't believe there was.
As I've said before this one is hard for me because I don't believe DP initially acted with malice at all, but I do believe there came a point where he overstepped, the train was stopped, people were warning him to let go, that he was in danger of killing Neely, and his training says he should have known it had been too long, and yet he didn't stop. I also believe that he still views his actions, even down to Neely's death, as just one of those things. He doesn't appear remorseful for the loss of life at all, and this wasn't a him or us situation, as much as Neely may have appeared threatening, he never actually made any move to attack anyone, and I believe DP actions were overkill. I think he needs to face some kind of consequence for his actions, but I also don't think he should go to jail.
It's complicated for me.

*This is all just my personal opinion, I have no links to show Penny's site of mind or whether he feels remorseful, or is as indifferent as he appears and I'm not stating as fact. My opinion on his attitude afterwards is just how I have perceived it from his interviews and reports.

Or, his appearance could be from being a military man. I'm really beginning to feel that "no good deed goes unpunished".

 

[browneyes]

I could not serve on this jury because I don’t believe a crime was committed.

 

[lonetraveler]

BBM:
There were other things Penny could have done along the way too besides choking Neely to death.

Daniel Penny was in a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. He chose to protect the people in that subway car.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think he said "I took him down" which I think is an important difference.

Marines are not taught to just put someone to sleep.

 

[shotgun09]

I am wondering if (we) the jury will be hearing from a passenger/witness on the train, who feared for her life and her baby's and barricaded the child behind a bench. This was brought up in opening statements.



"Neely began ranting about going to Rikers Island and getting a life sentence, the lawyer said, frightening passengers.


"Their fear turns to outright panic," the attorney said of the riders -- who included a mother who barricaded her baby behind a bench. "

Daniel Penny trial live updates from Nov. 1

Follow The Post’s live updates for the latest news from the trial, in which Daniel Penny is accused of manslaughter for placing Jordan Neely in a chokehold after the homeless man acted erratically …

nypost.com

 

[lonetraveler]

I could not serve on this jury because I don’t believe a crime was committed.

I don't think a crime was committed either. IMO, when said person jumped into a subway car and announced he was going to harm people and did not care if he went to prison, that, to me, meant that he was prepared for the consequences of his actions, no matter what.