Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[mickey2942]

I've also read that even a stun gun on a person who is high on certain drugs doesn't affect them. I don't know how DP would know that without the hold he had, that the others would be able to hold him down. I read that he was only waiting until the police arrived. JMO

Just recently, a man in Montana, another man with mental illness, was belligerent, he had been thrown out of a bar, came back, he had a knife, and the police did use tasers, and it still didn't stop the guy.

He cut an officer with the knife, and he was shot.

Man killed, officer injured in downtown Helena Saturday night

A man was killed and an officer is recovering after being stabbed following a late-night incident in downtown Helena on Saturday.

www.ktvh.com

 

[Lilibet]

Just my opinion, in the same amount of time you want to offered kindness, he also could have harmed someone. We simply don't know. We do know that Neely was aggressive when he entered the subway car and that he said 'I don't care if I die. Kill me, lock me up, I don't care if I go to jail for life,'" We do know that people were frightened. JMO

I respect your opinion. I can see we approach this from different ways of thinking and yes, people were frightened. I would have been too. But I also would have seen a man in pain and felt for him. However, I’ve never said that Penny shouldn’t have restrained Neely under those circumstances. But being verbally aggressive (toward oneself in this case) is not a death penalty offense. Penny’s justifiable restraint of Neely is not what he is on trial for. He carried it too far and killed a man for no justifiable reason.

JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

"It's tragic what happened to him. Hopefully, we can change the system that's so desperately failed us," he said. Penny went on to say that he felt no shame. When asked if he would do it again, he nodded and said, "I would — if there was a threat and danger in the present."

Spoken like a true military man, trained to protect. I grew up in a military town, and my family is full of military men (and cops) and every single one of them would say the same thing. Tragic? YES. Would they do it again? YES.

jmo

It is a total shame that Penny is having to go through this injustice. This is totally political and will be used as political fodder. Hopefully, the jury will see through all this BS.

 

[lonetraveler]

I respect your opinion. I can see we approach this from different ways of thinking and yes, people were frightened. I would have been too. But I also would have seen a man in pain and felt for him. However, I’ve never said that Penny shouldn’t have restrained Neely under those circumstances. But being verbally aggressive (toward oneself in this case) is not a death penalty offense. Penny’s justifiable restraint of Neely is not what he is on trial for. He carried it too far and killed a man for no justifiable reason.

JMO

Actually, Neely died because he jumped into a subway car and said he was going to kill someone and threatened the people on the subway. That is why he ended up dead.

 

[jepop]

Real interesting because stating you have "no shame" is a powerful indicator that one feels no remorse or guilt about something.
He also has the audacity to blame NY's system for him having killed a man.
And he'd do it all over again to boot.
I think if he were to take the stand everything that he's said can be used by the prosecution.
The prosecution claiming that Penny was "indifferent" is an understatement.


"It's tragic what happened to him. Hopefully, we can change the system that's so desperately failed us," he said.

Penny went on to say that he felt no shame. When asked if he would do it again, he nodded and said, "I would — if there was a threat and danger in the present."

Yeah , it makes me quite angry. It's a very poor show for DP that at no time that we can see did he express any remorse, shame or self reflect it seems. And imo his actions ( and non-actions ) constituting the crime reflect that.

That is really quite arrogant IMO, and if convicted I feel it may be an aggravating factor in sentencing. It's possible his defence is ill advising him or it's possible that his defence has no choice and DP has been insistent in this matter from the start. His communications with his defence are obviously privileged material and remain private. Jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

Yeah , it makes me quite angry. It's a very poor show for DP that at no time that we can see did he express any remorse, shame or self reflect it seems. And imo his actions ( and non-actions ) constituting the crime reflect that.

That is really quite arrogant IMO, and if convicted I feel it may be an aggravating factor in sentencing. It's possible his defence is ill advising him or it's possible that his defence has no choice and DP has been insistent in this matter from the start. His communications with his defence are obviously privileged material and remain private. JmoegtLet's not for

When at the police station Penny asks LE how long the interview is going to take because he has a test to take.
At that point it's unclear if he knew that JN was dead but either way he was able to focus on himself and his original plans for the day.
In the audio Penny asks is he 's being detained or arrested because he has a test to take.

Penny Minimized Duration of Chokehold During Questioning, Video Shows

Daniel Penny’s subway-car struggle with Jordan Neely, who was homeless, ended in Mr. Neely’s death. Mr. Penny’s lawyers are asking a judge to exclude video of his discussing the encounter.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Here we go.
NY Post live updates.

18 minutes ago

Daniel Penny arrives at Manhattan courthouse​

By Kaydi Pelletier
"Daniel Penny, the Marine veteran on trial for manslaughter in the death of Jordan Neely, arrived at a Lower Manhattan courthouse Tuesday morning.

After a pause for Veterans Day, proceedings resume this morning with more prosecution witnesses."

Daniel Penny trial live updates: Subway chokehold case back in court Tuesday

Follow The Post’s live updates from the courtroom as Daniel Penny, 26, stands trial for manslaughter after putting homeless man Jordan Neely, 30, in a chokehold onboard the subway in 2023.

nypost.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

minutes ago

Man who helped restrain Jordan Neely testifies the homeless man looked like he was trying to 'escape' Daniel Penny's chokehold​

By Priscilla DeGregory

'A man who jumped in to try to help Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely told jurors Tuesday that the troubled homeless man looked like he was trying to "escape" the former Marine's chokehold.

Eric Gonzalez, a 39-year-old Bronx resident, said he got on the uptown F subway train heading to his construction job when he saw Penny holding down Neely.

“Everyone was frantic saying call the cops, call the cops… I figured one was trying to restrain the other until the cops came," Gonzalez said.

"I jumped in to try to help."

"I am going to grab his hands so you can let go," of Neely, Gonzalez said to Penny, hoping he would remove his arm from Neely's neck.

"There was another time where I said you can let go, I’m holding onto him," Gonzalez told the jury.

Gonzalez said Neely tapped on someone nearby indicating he wanted Penny to let go.

"He wanted to be released," Gonzalez said, adding it looked like he was trying to "escape."

Despite Gonzalez' efforts for Penny to release Neely, he kept a hold of him, Gonzalez said.

Eventually, Gonzalez said Neely's "body went limp."

After the incident, Gonzalez said he was "scared" to learn he was a suspect in Neely's death.

And Gonzalez is still fearful now about his involvement in the case, he said.

"There’s all these protests going on. I’m scared for myself and for my family," Gonzalez said.'

Daniel Penny trial live updates: Subway chokehold case back in court Tuesday

Follow The Post’s live updates from the courtroom as Daniel Penny, 26, stands trial for manslaughter after putting homeless man Jordan Neely, 30, in a chokehold onboard the subway in 2023.

nypost.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Trying to escape"?

More like trying to get out of a chokehold so you could breathe.

21 minutes ago

'Man who helped restrain Jordan Neely testifies the homeless man looked like he was trying to 'escape' Daniel Penny's chokehold'​

 

[Izzylizzy]

26 minutes ago

'Man who helped Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely testifies he lied to the DA's office'​

By Kyle Schnitzer and Priscilla DeGregory

'Eric Gonzalez, who helped Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely, admitted from the witness stand to lying when he was initially interviewed by the Manhattan District Attorney's Office as a suspect in the troubled homeless man's death.

Gonzalez, scared he'd get "pinned for" the murder, said he fibbed to DA investigators, falsely claiming that he arrived to the scene earlier than he actually did and saying that Neely hit him, prompting Penny to act.

The Bronx man -- who eventually entered into a non-prosecution agreement with the DA's office -- said he told the lies in an attempt at "justifying my actions."

Earlier Tuesday, Gonzalez told jurors that Penny already had a hold of Neely when he got to the scene.

Trial testimony indicates that Neely went on a verbal rant but no one has ever testified that he touched anyone before Penny took him down.'

Daniel Penny trial live updates: Subway chokehold case back in court Tuesday

Follow The Post’s live updates from the courtroom as Daniel Penny, 26, stands trial for manslaughter after putting homeless man Jordan Neely, 30, in a chokehold onboard the subway in 2023.

nypost.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

8 minutes ago

'Witness says Jordan Neely 'looked like he was asleep' during Daniel Penny chokehold'​

By Kyle Schnitzer and Priscilla DeGregory

'A lifelong New Yorker testified that Jordan Neely "looked like he was asleep" during Daniel Penny's chokehold.

Derrick Clay, a Queens resident and barber, said he called 911 after about 5 or 6 minutes of watching Penny and Neely's struggle unfold.

Clay said he told the 911 operator that Neely "looked like he was asleep."

The witness clarified for the jury that he thought Neely was sleeping "because he wasn't moving."

Clay testified that when the subway car stopped, "Everyone burst off the train quickly.

"I was sitting in the corner. ... I saw two gentlemen on the subway car floor," Clay said. "They were wrestling or something of that nature. Like [Neely] was being detained."

During the 911 call, Clay said "a black guy" was on the floor and that the other man "had him in a chokehold."

Daniel Penny trial live updates: Subway chokehold case back in court Tuesday

Follow The Post’s live updates from the courtroom as Daniel Penny, 26, stands trial for manslaughter after putting homeless man Jordan Neely, 30, in a chokehold onboard the subway in 2023.

nypost.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

So it wasn't DP who put JN is the recovery position or checked his pulse, he left him motionless and walked away.
It was Eric Gonzales who was helping to hold down JN.

Man Who Helped Restrain Jordan Neely Testifies About Fatal Chokehold

Eric Gonzalez, who helped Daniel Penny pin Mr. Neely to the floor of a subway car, also said he had lied when he told investigators Mr. Neely had hit him.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

A bit more info on Eric Gonzalez.

Man Who Helped Restrain Jordan Neely Testifies About Fatal Chokehold

Eric Gonzalez, who helped Daniel Penny pin Mr. Neely to the floor of a subway car, also said he had lied when he told investigators Mr. Neely had hit him.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Ladyotm]

There was 3 on 1 so Neely wasn't going anywhere no less get up from a chokehold and kill someone, which was what Penny believed he was going to do before taking him down.
Penny can't go back a rewrite history no matter how much wishful thinking because the evidence presented proves otherwise.
He's being prosecuted on his actions that led to JN's death, not what he thought.

From the get-go Penny showed NO concern for JN when he had him in the chokehold, when he let go of the chokehold, when he left JN laying there on his back motionless and just picked up his hat and just stood there.

DP was told by a bystander to get JN on his side which is a recovery position then DP told the same guy not to keep putting water on JN's head.
The audio of DP when LE first arrived has nothing on it from DP expressing any concern or remorse just his infamous words "I put him out" and that he was a Marine.
No concern also on DP's LE interrogation.
If there had been I believe the defense would have fought to have it entered so the jury could hear it.
imo

I appreciate this response! Penny showed absolutely no care nor concern for Neely that day. His actions spoke volumes. From the refusal to let him go when prompted, to telling others not to help him (or words similar), to his calm, nonchalant attitude standing around looking and when 1st responders approached.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Has anyone read that the man who held down JN's shoulder has been found?

Gonzalez who held JN's hands was identified back in 2023 and testified yesterday.

Cops believe they have ID of man seen helping to restrain ...​

New York Post
https://nypost.com › 2023/05/18 › investigators-appear-...

May 18, 2023 — Investigators appear to have identified one of the two men seen on video helping ex-Marine Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely during the subway confrontation.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Penny obviously ignored this dangerous sign.

"Vázquez said that Penny asked other riders to call the police while he had the chokehold. Penny had learned the technique for restraint in
basic training. Another witness said that at some point during the chokehold, Penny relaxed his grip on Neely, and Neely coughed up a wad of blood and mucus.

Killing of Jordan Neely - Wikipedia​

 

[Izzylizzy]

Does anyone know why DP was also holding/pushing down JN's head while he had him in a chokehold?
Appears to also block JN's air passage.

Curious if this will be discussed with lethal force trainers and medical experts?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Does anyone know why DP was also holding/pushing down JN's head while he had him in a chokehold?
Appears to also block JN's air passage.

Curious if this will be discussed with lethal force trainers and medical experts?

Based on the image alone, it appears JN was struggling & DP was attempting to restrain him.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Penny obviously ignored this dangerous sign.

"Vázquez said that Penny asked other riders to call the police while he had the chokehold. Penny had learned the technique for restraint in
basic training. Another witness said that at some point during the chokehold, Penny relaxed his grip on Neely, and Neely coughed up a wad of blood and mucus.

Killing of Jordan Neely - Wikipedia​

You can't state DP "obviously ignored this dangerous sign" when nowhere in the source of that information on wikipedia does it say DP saw this happen, and ignored it.

The original source is Hell Gate a subscriber only site, and according to the wiki entry it simply says "another witness said..."

The alleged witness isn't even named, and the original article isn't available.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Based on the image alone, it appears JN was struggling & DP was attempting to restrain him.

Yep.
Struggling to breathe.