Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Izzylizzy]

Sounds like lots of people on the train thought JN was going to kill someone, and DP intervened- no one knew if he had a weapon or was going to kill that day… are you suggesting that DP should have waited to see if JN actually killed anyone before stepping in?

The death possibilities he thought and/or she thought ended when JN was in a chokehold, all passengers exited the car and 2 other men where helping DP hold down JN.

With no possibility of JN killing anyone DP went on to strangle JN to death,\.

 

[Dotta]

Psychiatrist drops bombshell testimony about Jordan Neely

In the ongoing manslaughter trial of Daniel Penny, a psychiatrist testified that Jordan Neely was a drug abuser who suffered repeat psychotic episodes before his death.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[DS2021]

Just a reminder. Intent to kill is not a requirement to charge someone with manslaughter.

 

[IceIce9]

Like Bernard Geotz? At what point are we completely controlled by these bullies? The lawlessness runs unchecked in NYC, and continues to escalate.

Neely may have been mentally ill, high on drugs, whatever else society wants to state as justification for his behavior. But he frightened people on the train that day.

I wonder what the outcome would have been if Penny had not been on the train that day to protect people?

I wonder what the outcome would have been too.

If I had been the mother of the small child, Daniel Penny would be my hero.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Is court scheduled for tomorrow and Friday?

 

[jepop]

There can’t be strange 24 year olds going around preemptively murdering people for a perception of danger when reality is JN was using just words.

JN did not sneak up behind someone attack with no warning crash the person to the ground and choke them to death Daniel Penny did.

As I’ve said it’s a shame a more mature better trained person wasn’t there instead of DP. DP is unqualified to interfere using his attorney says was his own mix of martial arts in the hold botching it and persisting to hold when others were telling him he was killing his victim.

DP doesn’t seem a good listener not using his training and ignoring others who gave him reasons and warnings to let N go.

I hope his followers don’t end up with their millions rewarded to him buying DP no consequences for his actions he needs to learn some humility, imo.


All imo

Yes, lack of humility, lack of self reflection. Overly concerned with image of being the "hero". Judge, jury and executioner. Can't allow people to apply reckless force against the vulnerable, weaker with no consequences and even a pat on the back, job well done, hero man. This isn't a lawless society for some and not others. Jmo

 

[GRT]

The death possibilities he thought and/or she thought ended when JN was in a chokehold, all passengers exited the car and 2 other men where helping DP hold down JN.

With no possibility of JN killing anyone DP went on to strangle JN to death,\.

I get what you're saying there. Once the threat was eradicated, DP should have let up on the chokehold.

It's just we don't know DP's state of mind once he restrained JN. It's very likely his adrenalin was racing and he didn't have a good idea of the threat being past.

We can always hold out hope that someone who is put in the position of protecting others has a clear mind while doing it, but we can't insist on it.

We can look back in hindsight and say the threat was over, but did DP sense that? He didn't bring on the situation, he just responded to protect the others who were frightened.

Unless we find out something else we don't yet know--I can't see convicting him. But, who knows? All juries are different.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I get what you're saying there. Once the threat was eradicated, DP should have let up on the chokehold.

It's just we don't know DP's state of mind once he restrained JN. It's very likely his adrenalin was racing and he didn't have a good idea of the threat being past.

We can always hold out hope that someone who is put in the position of protecting others has a clear mind while doing it, but we can't insist on it.

We can look back in hindsight and say the threat was over, but did DP sense that? He didn't bring on the situation, he just responded to protect the others who were frightened.

Unless we find out something else we don't yet know--I can't see convicting him. But, who knows? All juries are different.

We know that DP was told by a bystander that he was killing JP and also Eric Gonzalez who had JN's hands/arms told DP 2x that he can now release the chokehold, which DP did not and even continued the hold for 50 + secs after JN went lifeless.
Plus DP was trained in lethal force and knew its deadly consequences.

One's adrenaline is irrelevant, it's the video and passenger's audio evidence of DP's actions and passenger's words that got him criminally charged.
jmo:

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I get what you're saying there. Once the threat was eradicated, DP should have let up on the chokehold.

It's just we don't know DP's state of mind once he restrained JN. It's very likely his adrenalin was racing and he didn't have a good idea of the threat being past.

We can always hold out hope that someone who is put in the position of protecting others has a clear mind while doing it, but we can't insist on it.

We can look back in hindsight and say the threat was over, but did DP sense that? He didn't bring on the situation, he just responded to protect the others who were frightened.

Unless we find out something else we don't yet know--I can't see convicting him. But, who knows? All juries are different.

We don't know his state of mind no, but we do know that that other passengers warned him Neely was dying, warned him he was gonna cop a murder charge, specifically told him to let go. We know that he tried to stop a bystander from aiding Neely once he had let him go. We can see on the full length video, which I believe was linked in previous threads but I will see if I can find it, that one man specifically tells Penny that Neely is defecating and this is a sign he is dying. We can also see in the full video that Penny doesn't put Neely in the recovery position, but in fact he rolls him more onto his side than he was when he was holding him, so as to remove himself from underneath him, then as someone else is attempting to put Neely in the recovery position, Penny calmly reaches around to collect his hat from next to Neelys body.
More than one person telling him to let go really should have alerted him to his surroundings. JMO.

 

[Jade]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Fact is if Daniel Penny had not attacked JN with no warning from behind slamming him to the floor and killing him with his incompetence while smugly ignoring the cries of the onlookers JN would still be alive.

JN had not touched another person when he was violently assaulted from behind by DP.


All imo

 

[IceIce9]

Fact is if Daniel Penny had not attacked JN with no warning from behind slamming him to the floor and killing him with his incompetence while smugly ignoring the cries of the onlookers JN would still be alive.

JN had not touched another person when he was violently assaulted from behind by DP.


All imo

However, no one knows what would have happened if DP had not been there. Would JN have acted on his threats to kill? Would it be another tragic incident of innocent individuals being murdered while going about their daily routine?

I don’t know what would have happened, you don’t know what would have happened, no one knows because DP WAS there to stop the threat.

 

[Izzylizzy]

We don't know his state of mind no, but we do know that that other passengers warned him Neely was dying, warned him he was gonna cop a murder charge, specifically told him to let go. We know that he tried to stop a bystander from aiding Neely once he had let him go. We can see on the full length video, which I believe was linked in previous threads but I will see if I can find it, that one man specifically tells Penny that Neely is defecating and this is a sign he is dying. We can also see in the full video that Penny doesn't put Neely in the recovery position, but in fact he rolls him more onto his side than he was when he was holding him, so as to remove himself from underneath him, then as someone else is attempting to put Neely in the recovery position, Penny calmly reaches around to collect his hat from next to Neelys body.
More than one person telling him to let go really should have alerted him to his surroundings. JMO.

We do know what DP's initial state of mind was about JN when he told detectives " he's just a crackhead, you know what I mean?"

video in link
@ 1:11 in police video

Daniel Penny tells cops why he put 'crackhead' in chokehold on subway

Neely had been behaving erratically from the moment he got on the train in May 2023, threatening to 'kill people' and telling commuters he was ready to 'go back to jail.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Izzylizzy]

However, no one knows what would have happened if DP had not been there. Would JN have acted on his threats to kill? Would it be another tragic incident of innocent individuals being murdered while going about their daily routine?

I don’t know what would have happened, you don’t know what would have happened, no one knows because DP WAS there to stop the threat.

Yes, DP did stop the threat.
And when there was no more threat he strangled JN to death with lethal force.
Very simple.

 

[Jade]

However, no one knows what would have happened if DP had not been there. Would JN have acted on his threats to kill? Would it be another tragic incident of innocent individuals being murdered while going about their daily routine?

I don’t know what would have happened, you don’t know what would have happened, no one knows because DP WAS there to stop the threat.

Exactly was the perception reality?

No one knows so no one should have been violently attacked.

Imo

 

[IDK]

We do know what DP's initial state of mind was about JN when he told detectives " he's just a crackhead, you know what I mean?"

video in link
@ 1:11 in police video

Daniel Penny tells cops why he put 'crackhead' in chokehold on subway

Neely had been behaving erratically from the moment he got on the train in May 2023, threatening to 'kill people' and telling commuters he was ready to 'go back to jail.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

I just watched the video. That was the assessment Daniel Penny made BEFORE JN started mouthing off and issuing threats.

People make rapid assessments of others all the time. He did nothing to JN based on him being a possible drug addict and was ready to live and let live.

That is, until JN started escalating and Daniel Penny stepped in to protect others.

It might not be a term I would use, but I see nothing wrong with DP using it in that situation.

I mean, JN did test positive for K2 now that you bring it up. Which causes reactions similar to those of cocaine…

IMO.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

So wait until someone has been killed and then intervene?

No, intervene by all means, just don't place and keep someone in a chokehold for 6 minutes, and if you do feel confident enough to execute a chokehold, do it exactly like you've been trained, don't vary it to suit your own style and absolutely let go the second the person in the hold loses consciousness.
JMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

No, intervene by all means, just don't place and keep someone in a chokehold for 6 minutes, and if you do feel confident enough to execute a chokehold, do it exactly like you've been trained, don't vary it to suit your own style and absolutely let go the second the person in the hold loses consciousness.
JMO

Thanks

 

[Sillybilly]

I mean, JN did test positive for K2 now that you bring it up. Which causes similar reactions to cocaine…

IMO.

<rsbm>

If someone had any medical condition or prescribed medication that was causing them to act similar to JN, would that justify someone coming up behind them, placing them in a chokehold resulting in death?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

This link contains the video mentioned in my previous post. I should amend my post slightly to concede that after he has retrieved his hat, and stood watching for a few seconds, Penny does make a half baked attempt to reposition Neelys arms under his face when someone attempts to put him in the recovery position.

Video: Marine Daniel Penny holds Jordan Neely in chokehold on subway | Daily Mail Online

Extended video shows former Marine wrestling with subway passenger Jordan Neely, 30, before eventually releasing him after he goes limp. Neely was a homeless Michael Jackson impersonator with autism and schizophrenia.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[IDK]

<rsbm>

If someone had any medical condition or prescribed medication that was causing them to act similar to JN, would that justify someone coming up behind them, placing them in a chokehold resulting in death?

Respectfully, my post was meant only to address the use of the term “crackhead”, not the actions that followed. IMO.