Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[AddieBoo]

Unlikely. They released the counts that the grand jury agreed on. None of the other counts would have got a majority of votes. So 4 out of 18 counts got true-billed and released.

How do you know?
We don’t know what are in those other pages. There could be other “true bills”
Nobody knows.
But what is known is that whomever they thought did this crime did so with intent to murder and had planned the whole thing out…,

 

[FergusMcDuck]

How do you know?
We don’t know what are in those other pages. There could be other “true bills”
Nobody knows.
But what is known is that whomever they thought did this crime did so with intent to murder and had planned the whole thing out…,

It's in the judge's order. Only the four counts signed by the foreman are "official actions" and thus released.

 

[Chypre]

How do you know?
We don’t know what are in those other pages. There could be other “true bills”
Nobody knows.
But what is known is that whomever they thought did this crime did so with intent to murder and had planned the whole thing out…,

The grand jury has such a low burden of proof. All they are saying is, yes, this is sure suspicious, go further. And I agree it is completely suspicious. But I don't think the grand jury proceedings and suspicions have equal weight to big holes in the prosecution's theories.

 

[AddieBoo]

The grand jury has such a low burden of proof. All they are saying is, yes, this is sure suspicious, go further. And I agree it is completely suspicious. But I don't think the grand jury proceedings and suspicions have equal weight to big holes in the prosecution's theories.

First degree murder….

 

[AddieBoo]

It's in the judge's order. Only the four counts signed by the foreman are "official actions" and thus released.

no one knows…
Especially with this DA’s office.
Why not release the other pages then?
Does the public realize the gravity of everything this case had affected?
FIRST DEGREE MURDER
And John and Patsy were indicted on accessory….
WTF

 

[AddieBoo]

First degree murder….

Try breaking down the indictment charges against John and Patsy in the pool of first degree murder.
Intent to kill. Premeditation,.

 

[Chypre]

Try breaking down the indictment charges against John and Patsy in the pool of first degree murder.
Intent to kill. Premeditation,.

In your opinion, why weren't the indictments able to move forward?

 

[Ponytale]

What a wild statement to make. How does Burke's medical and school records help solve the case?

It is very clear that some of you will never believe it when the case is solved and the Ramsey's had nothing to do with it.

If the case will be solved and the Ramsey's are proven to have nothing to do with it I will apologize here and to the Ramsey family for believing that they were guilty.

I am firmly not BDI and I believe demanding the release of a 9-year-old’s personal information is extreme. There are certain records law enforcement would have access to, but it is certainly not our right to know anything about a 9-year-old, even if he killed someone. He would never be a criminal or felon at that age and his records should never be released. Imo

I'm not saying that they should be publicly released and available for all to view, sorry if I wrote it wrong - I rather meant that they should have been made available for the police and other authorities, who were working on and solving this case. There should be no reason to family for keeping/sealing any information that they (police) have requested, as it was needed for solving the case. IMO

 

[Ponytale]

It accomplishes nothing, would not clear him no matter what it shows, and opens him up to intense scrutiny as a 9-year-old child. As a parent, I would never open my child up to any public scrutiny and my children have absolutely nothing of note in their school records, either.

But he was already under scrutiny. If his records had nothing special about them, when made public, the only thing that releasing them would have done is it could have saved him from 28 years of speculations.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Unlikely. They released the counts that the grand jury agreed on. None of the other counts would have got a majority of votes. So 4 out of 18 counts got true-billed and released.

That doesn't explain why they weren't released. Your logic seems backwards to me considering they refused to release the outcome for like 14 years. They released very damning counts against the Ramseys.
Why not counterbalance what was released to show the GJ was not in agreement against all counts against the Ramseys?
It took a lawsuit for the world to get the GJs outcome. Why? And then when the outcome is released, we find out the True Bills verbiage is murder in the first degree. There is no way Ramseys dream team would not have insisted that there were multiple counts that the GJ didn't agree on.
Instead, we got JR pretentending in an interview that he didn't realize the GJ chose to indict. Make it make sense.

 

[AddieBoo]

In your opinion, why weren't the indictments able to move forward?

Because that was the plan all along.
Control the narrative.
Maybe there were other things at stake in the life of John Ramsey. Other things that a black mark on his reputation would affect. Other things that were at risk to others, should his public persona be damaged.
Political power is a very real phenomenon.
And it does not care about the brutal murder of a six year old child, or who did it.
Bury it. Catch and kill.

….Why didn’t Hunter disclose what the GJ had agreed on during his press conference that fateful day of October 14,1999. Did it have anything to do with an association with first degree murder for John and Patsy Ramsey? Of child abuse and accessory's to murder allegations?

Wonder what the heck could be in those remaining pages….just imagine…that led the GJ to those four conclusions in association with first degree murder.

Premeditation and intent to kill,
The GJ thought the killer planned and chose Christmas, the day for the celebration of the birth of Christ, to complete the murder. After a Christmas Party..,after joining with friends, breaking bread together. Exchanging gifts. Any prayers said?

Keeping the faith, being a faithful servant….…accessory to murder on Christmas..KNOWINGLY placing her, keeping her, in a dangerous environment that, yes, predictably (is that what the GJ meant?) led to her gruesome murder…on Christmas.
Oh Holy Night.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

no one knows…
Especially with this DA’s office.
Why not release the other pages then?
Does the public realize the gravity of everything this case had affected?
FIRST DEGREE MURDER
And John and Patsy were indicted on accessory….
WTF

We do know.

The judge told us, and I linked to it. Of the eighteen counts the GJ foreman signed four. That means there were only four true bills. If first degree murder was a count for either parent, the GJ couldn't agree on there being probable cause. Same regarding SA.

Probable cause is a weaker legal standard than what a prosecutor needs to show at a trial. If after thirteen months the prosecutor can't get more than four out of eighteen counts - and none of them dealing with who actually killed the victim - they've not going to win in court. The GJ knew it, the prosecutors knew it.

It wasn't corruption and Hunter wasn't a secret Ramsey supporter. The case was just too weak for trial.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

In this case, unfortunately we will never know the truth…. And it will not be solved. And that, IMO, is by design.

It is not logical to try and infer from partially released evidence, testimony, or GJ proceedings. IMO it is most unfortunate that the GJ indictments did not proceed and charges were not laid. No matter how ‘strong’ or ‘weak’ the evidence. And not doing so did not allow depositions to proceed and other evidence to be gathered. Which IIUC would have included at least the two parents. Possibly the remaining child that was also in the house that evening. Would have been interesting to see what they responded in an under oath situation on the record. (Contrasted with what IMO were heavily scripted and orchestrated interviews and publicity statements.)

IMO I remain convinced that someone (or more than one) did not want this case to proceed. And that IMO seems to include the R family and some other officials. Another documentary being released isn’t going to answer any questions or resolve it either.

Most unfortunate is that a young child is dead as a result. And likely resulting from a murder. And justice was not sought for it. If someone argued that it was due to shameful work by some authorities in Boulder, CO, I could not disagree. MOO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

That doesn't explain why they weren't released. Your logic seems backwards to me considering they refused to release the outcome for like 14 years.

The whole reason the GJ works in secret is so the information about people whose culpability doesn't even reach the level of probable cause can be discussed without the info getting out. True bills are official acts so they can be released as the end products of the GJ work, but there's no reason to release what they couldn't agree on. Of course the Ramseys have requested those counts be released too since they would show clearly how weak the case against them was.

They released very damning counts against the Ramseys.

I mean, they were grand jury true bills. They're not actually that damning as grand juries sign off on the prosecutor's charges about 95% of the time.

Why not counterbalance what was released to show the GJ was not in agreement against all counts against the Ramseys?

It had nothing to do with balance. The signed bills were official acts, the rest weren't.

It took a lawsuit for the world to get the GJs outcome. Why?

Because that's when someone petitioned got their released.

And then when the outcome is released, we find out the True Bills verbiage is murder in the first degree. There is no way Ramseys dream team would not have insisted that there were multiple counts that the GJ didn't agree on.

They did. They have asked for the not agreed upon counts to also be released so people can see what the GJ didn't think the prosecutors could prove.

Instead, we got JR pretentending in an interview that he didn't realize the GJ chose to indict. Make it make sense.

Because the DA didn't sign the true bills, the suspects wouldn't have been notified. At least, that's my understanding.

 

[FMB]

We do know.

The judge told us, and I linked to it. Of the eighteen counts the GJ foreman signed four. That means there were only four true bills. If first degree murder was a count for either parent, the GJ couldn't agree on there being probable cause. Same regarding SA.

Probable cause is a weaker legal standard than what a prosecutor needs to show at a trial. If after thirteen months the prosecutor can't get more than four out of eighteen counts - and none of them dealing with who actually killed the victim - they've not going to win in court. The GJ knew it, the prosecutors knew it.

It wasn't corruption and Hunter wasn't a secret Ramsey supporter. The case was just too weak for trial.

Yes ! Four True Bills for very serious felony charges. The Grand Jury very much agreed that there was probable cause to indict.....

Again, had the GJ found the evidence against the Ramsey's to be weak they would have returned a NO Bill.. The GJ voted on charges to indict that they believed could be reasonably met at trial.

What was weak was the DA Alex Hunter. If he was so confident in his decision to not prosecute then why hide the Grand Jury's True Bill for 14 years??

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Yes ! Four True Bills for very serious felony charges. The Grand Jury very much agreed that there was probable cause to indict.....

At least a majority agreed with the lower.legal standard for suspicion on four of eighteen counts, not including the main ones, yes.

Again, had the GJ found the evidence against the Ramsey's to be weak they would have returned a NO Bill.. The GJ voted on charges to indict that they believed could be reasonably met at trial.

No, the GJ votes for probable cause, not what's reasonably met at trial. Grand jury members have even said that they wouldn't convict for the charges at trial.

What was weak was the DA Alex Hunter. If he was so confident in his decision to not prosecute then why hide the Grand Jury's True Bill for 14 years??

Because he knew just how hysterical the discourse around the case was? With the governor himself joining in?

 

[AddieBoo]

But he was already under scrutiny. If his records had nothing special about them, when made public, the only thing that releasing them would have done is it could have saved him from 28 years of speculations.

consequences for the rest of their family in the midst on unfathomable tragedy. Both the murder of their child and the death of Patsy. The amount of pressure, financial burden and management with the unrelenting stress this family has endured is massive. Massive. Gut wrenching…

The whole reason the GJ works in secret is so the information about people whose culpability doesn't even reach the level of probable cause can be discussed without the info getting out. True bills are official acts so they can be released as the end products of the GJ work, but there's no reason to release what they couldn't agree on. Of course the Ramseys have requested those counts be released too since they would show clearly how weak the case against them was.



I mean, they were grand jury true bills. They're not actually that damning as grand juries sign off on the prosecutor's charges about 95% of the time.



It had nothing to do with balance. The signed bills were official acts, the rest weren't.



Because that's when someone petitioned got their released.



They did. They have asked for the not agreed upon counts to also be released so people can see what the GJ didn't think the prosecutors could prove.



Because the DA didn't sign the true bills, the suspects wouldn't have been notified. At least, that's my

At least a majority agreed with the lower.legal standard for suspicion on four of eighteen counts, not including the main ones, yes.



No, the GJ votes for probable cause, not what's reasonably met at trial. Grand jury members have even said that they wouldn't convict for the charges at trial.



Because he knew just how hysterical the discourse around the case was? With the governor himself joining in?

Why? Because the Grand Jury did not believe the Intruder theory? They believed the responsible parties to be the Ramsey’s.
Who, to this day, has ever publicly discussed the 4 indictments in the context of first degree murder?
Ramsey controls the narrative.
So far…

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Why? Because the Grand Jury did not believe the Intruder theory? They believed the responsible parties to be the Ramsey’s.

Yet they didn't believe the prosecution provided probable cause for most of their charges.

Who, to this day, has ever publicly discussed the 4 indictments in the context of first degree murder?

Why would they, when no one has been charged with first degree murder in this case?

Ramsey controls the narrative.
So far…

I don't see that changing, honestly.

 

[FMB]

At least a majority agreed with the lower.legal standard for suspicion on four of eighteen counts, not including the main ones, yes.



No, the GJ votes for probable cause, not what's reasonably met at trial. Grand jury members have even said that they wouldn't convict for the charges at trial.



Because he knew just how hysterical the discourse around the case was? With the governor himself joining in?

Or How about it would have been a major embarrassment for Alex Hunter had the public known of the Grand Jury's decision and his refusal to prosecute......Yes....there would have been major public outcry.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Or How about it would have been a major embarrassment for Alex Hunter had the public known of the Grand Jury's decision and his refusal to prosecute......Yes....there would have been major public outcry.

Outcry, sure, but hardly embarrassment. The grand jury was convened to bring charges against JonBenet's killer - and they couldn't get murder charges? From a legal perspective the decision has always been self-evident, though of course people would complain endlessly. We still have people who believe the four true bills are as good as a conviction and that they actually mean something for the Ramseys' guilt. Besides, it wouldn't be Hunter's fault for the GJ's failure, since Kane handled that.