GUILTY GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #5

[lonetraveler]

Judge just asked Foreperson if they were close to a verdict or if he should send them home. Foreperson said she thought it best to send them home. Apparently the other juorors chose to go on and deliberate, so judge is letting them continue.
Personally, I think the judge should let them deliberate as long as they want.

Seen on Law & Crime trial network.

 

[JayWill]

I pray you are wrong. I tend to want to believe the best about people. and If they aren't found guilty of the crimes in state court I guess I will hang my hat on the federal case. But I really don't think I will have to.

I pray that I am wrong too,

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I thought more about the dirty nail thing over night.

I know dirty nails were referenced in the autopsy report, but did it actually get into testimony that he wasn't wearing socks? What brought that up?

 

[Ched]

Travis had reasonable perception to fear for his life when Ahmad grabbed his rifle but no reasonable perception to draw the gun on him in the first place.

3 times Travis stopped and tried to talk to Ahmad and all 3 times he admits Ahmad was not a threat to him and Travis did not see any weapons.

So when Travis drew the gun on Ahmaud, it was Ahmaud who had the reasonable perception to fear for his life and went to disarm Travis.

Travis harassed Ahmaud for 5 minutes with his truck and yelling at him 3 x's with dad yelling "stop or I will blow your @#$%& head off."

Then after harassing him he pulled a rifle on him without reasonable perception to fear for his life, thus turning the tables.

Then it was Ahmaud who had the reasonable perception to fear for his life, Ahmaud who needed a gun to defend himself, not having that, he attempted to disarm his enemy.

the thing is though reasonable perception can be when he’s getting closer to grabbing the gun , he doesn’t have to have grabbed it & it’s reasonable perception to Travis not to anyone else .
So all the reasonable perception bit is what “could” be going through Travis’s mind . So the raising of the gun comes first as that’s Travis with his claim of reasonable perception (even if we think he shouldn’t be right ) then Ahmad could very rightly feel threatened but he advanced . It’s the “advancing” bit .

I’m hoping it just falls at the citizens arrest bit then it won’t even get into this part as it won’t have be valid if the first part has gone.

 

[Cool Cats]

I know dirty nails were referenced in the autopsy report, but did it actually get into testimony that he wasn't wearing socks? What brought that up?

“Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails,” Lauren Hogue told the panel, referring to a description from the autopsy report.

 

[sds71]

Veronica Waters

@MissVWaters
·
Back in the courtroom for another update

Judge Walmsley says the #AhmaudArbery shooting case jury is ready to break for the night.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

“Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails,” Lauren Hogue told the panel, referring to a description from the autopsy report.

Yeah, I saw that she said that but the autopsy report doesn't say anything about socks. I'm wondering if there was actual evidence about it.

 

[JaxFlaGal]

Just saw on a local live stream of the jury watch that they will break for the night and reconvene at 8:30 AM tomorrow.

 

[Cool Cats]

the thing is though reasonable perception can be when he’s getting closer to grabbing the gun , he doesn’t have to have grabbed it & it’s reasonable perception to Travis not to anyone else .
So all the reasonable perception bit is what “could” be going through Travis’s mind . So the raising of the gun comes first as that’s Travis with his claim of reasonable perception (even if we think he shouldn’t be right ) then Ahmad could very rightly feel threatened but he advanced . It’s the “advancing” bit .

I’m hoping it just falls at the citizens arrest bit then it won’t even get into this part as it won’t have be valid if the first part has gone.

I already agreed that Travis was afraid for his life when Ahmad lunged for his gun. Ahmaud was also afraid for his life - even more - because he had no gun to defend himself.

So you have 2 guys both afraid for their lives.

Who got them into that situation? Travis, he is responsible.

The jury will hold him responsible.

 

[SuperTmo]

No. Not one time.

They said they wanted AA "Identified" and they wanted LE to "Check him out." GM suggested the police, as AA lay bleeding to death, go knock on doors and find the crime he "must have committed."

Gosh that is repulsive.

 

[wasnt_me]

I already agreed that Travis was afraid for his life when Ahmad lunged for his gun. Ahmaud was also afraid for his life - even more - because he had no gun to defend himself.

So you have 2 guys both afraid for their lives.

Who got them into that situation? Travis, he is responsible.

The jury will hold him responsible.

I agree. I think that if the jury rejects the citizens' arrest claim, then AA is defending himself against an unlawful arrest, which is his right. If the jury doesn't reject the citizen's arrest claim, AA is still defending himself against the excessive force of the citizens' arrest.

I think the idea of a citizens' arrest is something the lawyers came up with as a defense as the McMichaels never say they were doing that in the beginning, and they don't even know what crime AA supposedly committed.

I'm afraid the jury will be biased against AA's skin color just like the McMichaels were and that bias will lead them to think the McMichaels had rights but AA didn't.

 

[SuperTmo]

In Arbery case, shooter failed to follow training - instructors

McMichael testified last week that he drew on his U.S. Coast Guard training by levelling a shotgun at Arbery to make him "back off." But gun professionals interviewed by Reuters said he broke a basic tenet: Never point a gun at anyone, let alone shoot them, unless you are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death.

"There's just not enough evidence that these guys had to use deadly force," said Rodney Smith, CEO and director of training at the Georgia Firearms and Security Training Academy.

Clifford Wallace, 36, said both cases showed the need for verbal warnings before pointing and discharging firearms.

"I can't just shoot you because you appear to be a threat, right? It has to be imminent. I have to know that you're a threat," said Wallace, owner of firearms training, retail and manufacturing company Democratic Arms in Berrien Springs, Michigan.

Louis Evans, 75, a former Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputy and owner of Evans Security Training & Range in Compton, California, took issue with the defense argument that gun safety protocols were followed in the shooting of Arbery.

"Everything they did was messed up. People who are not following the rule of law; they violated everything," Evans said of the McMichaels and Bryan.

Michael Cargill said Arbery should be seen as Rittenhouse was - a man in fear of his life.

"Those cases are the same," said Cargill, 52, owner of the Central Texas Gun Works firing range and gun shop in Austin, Texas. "Kyle Rittenhouse was trying to get away from people that were trying to kill him. And he had a rifle and he used it to defend himself. Ahmaud Arbery was trying to get away from people who were trying to kill him. He didn't have a gun. He was shot and killed."

I really wish they had had a retired Coast Guard officer testify about the training and what would be appropriate in this scenario. To point out what TM did wasn’t allowed or encouraged by the coast guard. I’m not sure if that would be allowed or possible, but it would have been nice.

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't know about y'all but I'm having a hard time cooking for Thanksgiving because I keep having to check for a verdict. Really thought there would be one today. I really, really feel there will be one tomorrow.

 

[JayWill]

I know dirty nails were referenced in the autopsy report, but did it actually get into testimony that he wasn't wearing socks? What brought that up?

The attorney trying to dehumanize him and make disreputable.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

the thing is though reasonable perception can be when he’s getting closer to grabbing the gun , he doesn’t have to have grabbed it & it’s reasonable perception to Travis not to anyone else .
So all the reasonable perception bit is what “could” be going through Travis’s mind .

Nope, reasonable belief is not about trying to read the defendant's mind, it's about what a reasonable person would believe.

GA Suggested Pattern Jury Instructions

3.10.12 Reasonable Beliefs Explained
For the Defendant’s threat or use of force to be justified:
1. the Defendant must believe that his/her threat or use of force is necessary;
2. that belief must be reasonable, that is, a reasonable person would also believe that the threat or use of force is necessary; and
3. the Defendant’s reasonable belief must be what prompts him/her to threaten or use force.

 

[wasnt_me]

I really wish they had had a retired Coast Guard officer testify about the training and what would be appropriate in this scenario. To point out what TM did wasn’t allowed or encouraged by the coast guard. I’m not sure if that would be allowed or possible, but it would have been nice.

I personally find his training irrelevant because he didn't have any jurisdiction to police his neighborhood, and it didn't give him special warrantless powers.

 

[JayWill]

the thing is though reasonable perception can be when he’s getting closer to grabbing the gun , he doesn’t have to have grabbed it & it’s reasonable perception to Travis not to anyone else .
So all the reasonable perception bit is what “could” be going through Travis’s mind . So the raising of the gun comes first as that’s Travis with his claim of reasonable perception (even if we think he shouldn’t be right ) then Ahmad could very rightly feel threatened but he advanced . It’s the “advancing” bit .

I’m hoping it just falls at the citizens arrest bit then it won’t even get into this part as it won’t have be valid if the first part has gone.

Only if you are looking at it through a different lens than most fair minded people.

 

[SuperTmo]

I know dirty nails were referenced in the autopsy report, but did it actually get into testimony that he wasn't wearing socks? What brought that up?

I think the defense attorney made certain to ask about it when questioning the ME for the sole purpose of being able to use that degrading statement she made yesterday. She made sure it was in the testimony because she planned all along to say those words intended to dehumanize Ahmaud Arbery.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I think the defense attorney made certain to ask about it when questioning the ME for the sole purpose of being able to use that degrading statement she made yesterday. She made sure it was in the testimony because she planned all along to say those words intended to dehumanize Ahmaud Arbery.

Okay, that was so cringe.

 

[pseudo_hum]

IMO, When you introduce a weapon to a situation, you are responsible for that weapon. GUILTY.