GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[Tbone144]

He wasn't actually cornored, though they could have. He carried a cell phone like everyone else?

<modsnip>

Preface with IMOO
Reaching into your pocket to grab your phone while a gun is drawn on you is a really good way to get shot and would provide the assailant a reason to fire first “we thought he was reaching for a gun”. Doesn’t matter woulda coulda shoulda what matters is the facts. We have very little other than a video that shows a murder from what I can tell but I’m not on the jury.

Again if some one approaches me as a lone female out walking on my road and proceeds to try to chase me down I’m fighting back or drawing first if I have time to think about it. Especially if it’s three men who jump out of the car at me.

This appears to be vigilantism. I don’t care what race the victim is, you don’t get to try to apprehend someone on the street unless they are committing a crime at that moment. You call the police and let the police question them. The assailants made very stupid choices and I can’t help but wonder if day drinking was involved. The complete lack of logic in their decision making astounds me.
ALL IMOO.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

This defense attorney flat out lies after watching ?? the video: At 6:55 Arbery is seen running down the street, not approaching them, not threatening them, doesnt present ANY threat whatsoever, they are CHASING HIM...
He must have watched the CNN version?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Preface with IMOO
Reaching into your pocket to grab your phone while a gun is drawn on you is a really good way to get shot and would provide the assailant a reason to fire first “we thought he was reaching for a gun”. Doesn’t matter woulda coulda shoulda what matters is the facts. We have very little other than a video that shows a murder from what I can tell but I’m not on the jury.

Again if some one approaches me as a lone female out walking on my road and proceeds to try to chase me down I’m fighting back or drawing first if I have time to think about it. Especially if it’s three men who jump out of the car at me.

This appears to be vigilantism. I don’t care what race the victim is, you don’t get to try to apprehend someone on the street unless they are committing a crime at that moment. You call the police and let the police question them. The assailants made very stupid choices and I can’t help but wonder if day drinking was involved. The complete lack of logic in their decision making astounds me.
ALL IMOO.

He was half a block away when the video started. I'm pretty sure they they wouldn't have shot him if he pulled out a phone and started dialing. But grabbing their gun and hitting him on the head? That's pretty much guaranteed now. And those violent acts are going to lose any murder case. Possible manslaughter.

 

[Matic]

The way I see it, Arbery reaches the front of the truck and sees McMichael to his left, pointing a shotgun at him. We don't know what McMichael says to him, but Arbery obviously felt threatened and tried to take the shotgun away from him. It's called self-defense. imo

Show me in the video where either men are "pointing" their weapons at Arbery prior to the younger McMichael being assulted..

It's a tragic situation but I believe they were just trying to hem up Arbery till the police showed up.

Moo.

 

[sds71]

Police tried to make an arrest shortly after 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery was fatally shot on February 23 but they were blocked by Brunswick District Attorney Jackie Johnson, two Glynn County commissioners said Friday. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation on Thursday charged Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis McMichael, 34, with murder and aggravated assault, two days after graphic footage emerged of them shooting Arbery while he was out jogging. Commissioner Allen Booker told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Friday: “The police at the scene went to [Johnson], saying they were ready to arrest both of them. These were the police at the scene who had done the investigation. She shut them down to protect her friend McMichael.” Commissioner Peter Murphy said officers at the scene in February concluded they had probable cause but “were told not to make the arrest.”
Former cop Gregory McMichael was an investigator for the Brunswick District Attorney’s office until 2019, prompting Johnson to become one of two prosecutors to recuse themselves from the case.
Brunswick DA’s Office Blocked Arrests in Ahmaud Arbery Shooting in Feb: County Commissioners

 

[tlcya]

police report

 

[Tbone144]

He was half a block away when the video started. I'm pretty sure they they wouldn't have shot him if he pulled out a phone and started dialing. But grabbing their gun and hitting him on the head? That's pretty much guaranteed now. And those violent acts are going to lose any murder case. Possible manslaughter.

I wouldn’t have thought they would have shot him at all but yet they did that so who knows what they would have done had he reached in his pocket. Are we sure he had a phone? I know people who don’t jog with their phones because they are hard to carry and in neighborhoods there are people around if you need assistance. Or was he wearing ear buds while jogging and had no clue they were after him until they were on him? On windy days I have a hard time hearing cars until they are about a half a block away and I don’t wear anything in my ears so I can hear them.
My CHL class instructor was very adamant about you don’t go looking for a fight if you are carrying. If you can’t control your temper, don’t have your gun on you. If you want to cuss Karen out for cutting in line in Target you better hope things don’t escalate if you start the argument. Which is also why you aren’t allowed to carry off your property if you have been drinking in TX.

IMOO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Show me in the video where either men are "pointing" their weapons at Arbery prior to the younger McMichael being assulted..

It's a tragic situation but I believe they were just trying to hem up Arbery till the police showed up.

Moo.

I just watched it in slo mo, the dad, in the back of the pickup, was actually on the phone till after the attack and first shot was fired.

 

[oviedo]

Preface with IMOO
Reaching into your pocket to grab your phone while a gun is drawn on you is a really good way to get shot and would provide the assailant a reason to fire first “we thought he was reaching for a gun”. Doesn’t matter woulda coulda shoulda what matters is the facts. We have very little other than a video that shows a murder from what I can tell but I’m not on the jury.

Again if some one approaches me as a lone female out walking on my road and proceeds to try to chase me down I’m fighting back or drawing first if I have time to think about it. Especially if it’s three men who jump out of the car at me.

This appears to be vigilantism. I don’t care what race the victim is, you don’t get to try to apprehend someone on the street unless they are committing a crime at that moment. You call the police and let the police question them. The assailants made very stupid choices and I can’t help but wonder if day drinking was involved. The complete lack of logic in their decision making astounds me.
ALL IMOO.

Yep - so IMO why did they do this? My pure speculation? They were lying in wait and had their buddy cued up - they wanted an encounter
JMO
This man is a victim and we at WS are victim friendly- we don’t ever sleuth victims and the two men have been charged with murder - feels a bit like this thread may be going in a direction I prefer to skip
JMO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I wouldn’t have thought they would have shot him at all but yet they did that so who knows what they would have done had he reached in his pocket. Are we sure he had a phone? I know people who don’t jog with their phones because they are hard to carry and in neighborhoods there are people around if you need assistance. Or was he wearing ear buds while jogging and had no clue they were after him until they were on him? On windy days I have a hard time hearing cars until they are about a half a block away and I don’t wear anything in my ears so I can hear them.
My CHL class instructor was very adamant about you don’t go looking for a fight if you are carrying. If you can’t control your temper, don’t have your gun on you. If you want to cuss Karen out for cutting in line in Target you better hope things don’t escalate if you start the argument. Which is also why you aren’t allowed to carry off your property if you have been drinking in TX.

IMOO

Not sure he had a phone. Not sure he was really a 'jogger'. Not sure he lived on the next street as dad claimed. I believe my own eyes though, and saw him run up and assault a guy holding a shotgun while the dad stood by with a pistol. WTH?? Yes I did see it. I think part of this escapade was inspired by the loss of their personal pistol that got them wanting to check him out... as far as being out of control with the guns, I didn't see that, though they were armed, the fact they called the police twice (and possibly as the attack on them happened, dad was on the phone till between the first and second shots). That TX law sounds good! ha ha. In Utah, probably other states, if you have a medical MJ card or get one, kiss your CCW card away. But you can be on Oxy or any other number of pharms.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please stay on topic by discussing this case and stop bickering over details of the Trayvon Martin case.

Thanks.

 

[MsBetsy]

[

Statistically, your friend's black husband has far greater chance of being killed by young black males in Atlanta over a disrespect issue than he does being killed by white vigilantes.

I am not using these very accurate statistics to detract from the victim. Rather, I am simply stating that murders by racist white vigilantes are rare.

As a further illustration of emerging complexities, the deceased was once arrested for carrying a gun to a high school basketball game.

Though he might of had good intentions in carrying the weapon, he might of been involved in a respect / disrespect issue.

Not necessarily. Those statistics refer mostly to men who are involved in violence or criminal behavior. ( I'm referring to the first paragraph in your post.)

The same is true for white males. Depending on the source, about 84% of white male victims are killed by white males.

What seems to be more important in this case is the danger of police viewing certain people as being a danger or involved in criminal behavior based on their race.

Did the perpetrators have any reason to believe the victim had tried to rob a house? What evidence did they have to lead them to chase him in their car and order him to stop? What proof did they have that he was running from a crime?

According to his mother he was out running for exercise.

Imo

 

[jaxibear]

According the police report linked above, the defendant himself stated that Arbery turned and ran back the way he came, so they changed their route to cut him off. They pursued him, and IMO, he had every right to be terrified of them and to defend himself.

 

[Michelle.M]

It frightens me that Arbery's actions are being debated in this forum.
These men who hunted and killed him will go free.
I can see that now.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[tlcya]

I find most interesting the timing between the two calls to 911. We have the first call to 911 at 1:08pm with caller saying a man is trespassing at an open unsecured residential construction site and

The caller then says, “He’s running right now, and there he goes right now,”

Then you have a second call at 1:14pm from someone stating “Uh, I’m out here at Satilla Shores. There’s a black male running down the street,” in an apparent reference Arbery. Ahmaud Arbery killing: man called 911 to report 'black male running' prior to shooting

SPECULATION ONLY: Was the first caller the construction property owner and unhappy with the response from that 1st call he contacted friend and neighbor former LEO McMichael?

Were both calls from McMichael as this article seems to suggest and HE was unsatisfied with the 911 dispatchers response to his first call and decided to :"handle" things on his own?

At 1.14 pm, the second call is answered at the call center. Following the first exchange between the caller and the dispatcher, the caller again did not respond to the dispatcher, instead yelling: “Stop. Stop that. Dammit. Stop.”

How did the third man become involved in the alleged attempted citizen's arrest? Was he at the McMichael residence when all this went down and that is how he was right there available to leap into his own vehicle and trail the two McMichaels while videoing the big bust? lots of questions.

What happened during those 16 minutes from call one to call two?

 

[MsBetsy]

Not sure he had a phone. Not sure he was really a 'jogger'. Not sure he lived on the next street as dad claimed. I believe my own eyes though, and saw him run up and assault a guy holding a shotgun while the dad stood by with a pistol. WTH?? Yes I did see it. I think part of this escapade was inspired by the loss of their personal pistol that got them wanting to check him out... as far as being out of control with the guns, I didn't see that, though they were armed, the fact they called the police twice (and possibly as the attack on them happened, dad was on the phone till between the first and second shots). That TX law sounds good! ha ha. In Utah, probably other states, if you have a medical MJ card or get one, kiss your CCW card away. But you can be on Oxy or any other number of pharms.

Maybe he wasn't a jogger, maybe he was running because two men were chasing him, yelling at him, and trying to cut him off with their vehicle.

The victim used his fists to defend himself. The perpetrator used a gun. Not exactly a fair fight.

Imo

 

[Alpha Bravo]

[

Statistically, your friend's black husband has far greater chance of being killed by young black males in Atlanta over a disrespect issue than he does being killed by white vigilantes.

I am not using these very accurate statistics to detract from the victim. Rather, I am simply stating that murders by racist white vigilantes are rare.

As a further illustration of emerging complexities, the deceased was once arrested for carrying a gun to a high school basketball game.

Though he might of had good intentions in carrying the weapon, he might of been involved in a respect / disrespect issue.

<modsnip: personalizing> They saw him where he didn't belong and tried to hold him for the cops. The fact he attacked and fought him, grabbed a gun while hitting him, was an act of violence that caused him to defend himself. Now if they shot him from the pickup while driving up to him, you would have a point.

 

[LietKynes]

Not sure he had a phone. Not sure he was really a 'jogger'. Not sure he lived on the next street as dad claimed. I believe my own eyes though, and saw him run up and assault a guy holding a shotgun while the dad stood by with a pistol. WTH?? Yes I did see it. I think part of this escapade was inspired by the loss of their personal pistol that got them wanting to check him out... as far as being out of control with the guns, I didn't see that, though they were armed, the fact they called the police twice (and possibly as the attack on them happened, dad was on the phone till between the first and second shots). That TX law sounds good! ha ha. In Utah, probably other states, if you have a medical MJ card or get one, kiss your CCW card away. But you can be on Oxy or any other number of pharms.

bbm
Earlier, I thought Ahmaud lived there in that neighborhood.

But no, someone replied to my earlier post already; and stated that no, Ahmaud lived 2 miles away.
Maybe wanted to jog in a different area with better sidewalks ?
I don't know his reasons for exercising there.

But I think that "dad" aka parent of the 2nd younger shooter knew that Ahmaud didn't live there.
Hence his willingness to fire at unknown people jogging on the sidewalk who did not "belong" in "their" community.
How dare Ahmaud walk on their sidewalk ?
Amazing, and not in a good way.

Thank god I don't live in this neighborhood or nearby... and as a person who likes to to take a brisk walk outdoors -- it could very easily be myself dying and gasping my last breath on that street in broad daylight.

Ahmaud died alone with no family to say goodbye.
Adding insult to injury-- the murderers turned him over as he was dying or already dead, checking for a gun that they knew wasn't there !

Another poster mentioned that this contaminated the crime scene.
But the DA was fine with that --until the video went public.
How many other cases has Jackie Johnson covered up ?
She should lose her job.

Our laws don't allow that; and are put in place protect us all ; and that should have included Ahmaud !

If someone breaks into your house at night you have a right to protect your family.
That is not what happened.

A civilian does not have the right to detain and shoot random people who are walking/jogging in their neighborhood.
Absolutely confounded that this man, his son, and the friend thought this was acceptable.

 

[tlcya]

Here it's mentioned on CNN, there was some $2,500 in fishing equipment stolen out of a boat in the garage. [SNIPPED BY ME for focus]
South Georgia community demands justice for Ahmaud Arbery's death - CNN

So this is factual from CNN

This defense attorney flat out lies after watching ?? the video: At 6:55 Arbery is seen running down the street, not approaching them, not threatening them, doesnt present ANY threat whatsoever, they are CHASING HIM...
He must have watched the CNN version?

But this is not? Just trying to follow the logic.

 

[Michelle.M]

If it was their intention to hunt Arbery down and execute him, then it was beyond stupid to have their friend follow and film it.

You're reasonable. So it wouldn't make sense to you, a sensible person.

Predators do this kind of thing all the time. They harm people, record it or save souvenirs, and relish in their depravity later. It's extremely common, I think.