GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[Strangeworld]

Is it socially acceptable for non-LE to jump in the back of a pick up truck with a gun and chase down a person that 'they' believe has committed a crime? Living in Australia I just can't imagine this image ever feeling ok to me, even if was a mass murderer running down the street. It screams vigilantism to me.

 

[Michelle.M]

Is it socially acceptable for non-LE to jump in the back of a pick up truck with a gun and chase down a person that 'they' believe has committed a crime? Living in Australia I just can't imagine this image ever feeling ok to me, even if was a mass murderer running down the street. It screams vigilantism to me.

No, it isn't acceptable. Unfortunately, it is sometimes used as an excuse.

 

[LietKynes]

I apologize to GA LE as I thought the responding police decided this was nothing, a non-issue.
But no.
They had enough reason to arrest the shooters.
Maybe they just should have done this ?
The DA prevented it for her own reasons.

Glynn County commissioner says DA blocked arrests after fatal shooting

Two Glynn County commissioners say District Attorney Jackie Johnson’s office refused to allow the Glynn County Police Department to make arrests immediately after the Feb. 23 shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery.

What else has this DA done to prevent justice in this state ?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

bbm
Earlier, I thought Ahmaud lived there in that neighborhood.

But no, someone replied to my earlier post already; and stated that no, Ahmaud lived 2 miles away.
Maybe wanted to jog in a different area with better sidewalks ?
I don't know his reasons for exercising there.

But I think that "dad" aka parent of the 2nd younger shooter knew that Ahmaud didn't live there.
Hence his willingness to fire at unknown people jogging on the sidewalk who did not "belong" in "their" community.
How dare Ahmaud walk on their sidewalk ?
Amazing, and not in a good way.

Thank god I don't live in this neighborhood or nearby... and as a person who likes to to take a brisk walk outdoors -- it could very easily be myself dying and gasping my last breath on that street in broad daylight.

Ahmaud died alone with no family to say goodbye.
Adding insult to injury-- the murderers turned him over as he was dying or already dead, checking for a gun that they knew wasn't there !

Another poster mentioned that this contaminated the crime scene.
But the DA was fine with that --until the video went public.
How many other cases has Jackie Johnson covered up ?
She should lose her job.

Our laws don't allow that; and are put in place protect us all ; and that should have included Ahmaud !

If someone breaks into your house at night you have a right to protect your family.
That is not what happened.

A civilian does not have the right to detain and shoot random people who are walking/jogging in their neighborhood.
Absolutely confounded that this man, his son, and the friend thought this was acceptable.

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Read the police report, he was spotted in a home under construction, that had prior burglaries. He was spotted and took off HAULING AZZ per the report.
Hence, his jogging career started up right then!

 

[Michelle.M]

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Read the police report, he was spotted in a home under construction, that had prior burglaries. He was spotted and took off HAULING AZZ per the report.
Hence, his jogging career started up right then!

Assuming he was in the home and ran away. OK. Allow the police to handle it.

Simple as that. There is no argument past that.

 

[LietKynes]

I have no problem with a citizen's arrest, but when you decide to kill the person whom you know is not armed, you have crossed a line -- and this never should have been covered up by the DA or anyone else.
Imo

 

[Strangeworld]

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Read the police report, he was spotted in a home under construction, that had prior burglaries. He was spotted and took off HAULING AZZ per the report.
Hence, his jogging career started up right then!

I'm just trying to follow your posts and what you are saying is justified in these events. Are you saying that their actions to follow Arbery with guns and intercept him were appropriate? That this should be acceptable social practice that if you see someone you suspect has committed a crime, to get armed and chase and corner? I am not trying to be inflammatory, but I'm just trying to understand what you are justifying....the decision to chase whilst armed, the 'self defence argument' when they blocked Arbery's path and he reacted, or both?

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Assuming he was in the home and ran away. OK. Allow the police to handle it.

Simple as that. There is no argument past that.

Yeah, you need the police this minute but they are an half hour away. Citizen's arrest are legal in GA. <modsnip: rude> These two guys will get off, there will be wringing of hands and calls to change the law, and next year everyone forgets it.

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> According to what I read they thought he was trespassing and looking into a home that was under construction.

I'm sorry if I have been unable to catch up with 13,000 posts. Not everyone has all day to read every post on every thread.

<modsnip: referenced post was removed>

I have asked what evidence they had that he was committing a crime and so far I have not gotten an answer.

 

[Michelle.M]

Yeah, you need the police this minute but they are an half hour away. Citizen's arrest are legal in GA. <modsnip: rude> These two guys will get off, there will be wringing of hands and calls to change the law, and next year everyone forgets it.

Why were the police needed in that minute, as you speculated? Was there imminent danger?

Citizens' arrests are legal, under certain circumstances. It might be worth reviewing the guidelines for a citizen's arrest and then comparing and contrasting the recent incident with those guidelines.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Read the police report, he was spotted in a home under construction, that had prior burglaries. He was spotted and took off HAULING AZZ per the report.
Hence, his jogging career started up right then!

The problem Imo, is that this was covered up by an incompetent DA who has no business doing this job.
She is incapable and possibly worse.

If he was robbing a home under construction, they still did not have a right to kill him.
Call the police and let them handle it.
What was so difficult for these shooters to understand ?

None of us has the right to shoot to kill a person we think may have stolen something.
Maybe in GA it's ok, -- but in other states you may spend some time behind bars yourself for taking such action !

 

[Tbone144]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

You don’t get to pick a fight and when that person defends themselves shoot them. That’s not how it works. It rarely works in the shooters favor. You can’t cut someone off in traffic and when they get mad and flip you off, you can’t pull your gun to ward them off. You don’t get to confront someone with a weapon unless your life or someone else’s life is in eminent danger. Even if I see two guys fighting I’m not allowed to draw on them to stop it. Now one is stabbing another one or the fight has escalated to the point one is down and the other is going to curb stomp them yes, then I’m allowed to draw. I also don’t cruise bar parking lots or let outs from hockey games looking for fights to break up. I’m not a cop, I’m not a vigilante and I’m certainly not a superhero in charge of stopping crimes.

They made the decision, two men against one(I know technically three) to come at him armed to “detain” him for an event that no ones life was in eminent danger. Let’s say he was scoping out houses, so what, it’s not their job to enforce some law that they think he may be breaking.

Today was a prime example:On my way home some guy who doesn’t live in our “neighborhood” was walking along the road. I put neighborhood in quotes because we are houses on roughly 10 acre plots. Lots of people who live out here walk along the roads for exercise. This guy wasn’t exercising (walking in boots, jeans and a tank top) and isn’t someone we know. We managed to drive by, take some mental notes in case someone in the area reports something shady going on and continued on our way. We didn’t jump out of the truck with our guns drawn to hold the guy until police showed up to question him. We didn’t even call the police because he’s walk walking on a public road. The only reason that scenario even crossed my mind is because of this story.

 

[tlcya]

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

Read the police report, he was spotted in a home under construction, that had prior burglaries. He was spotted and took off HAULING AZZ per the report.
Hence, his jogging career started up right then!

Unfortunately Mr Arbery was not living or in a position to have his version of events memorialized in a police report. Nor do we have anyone but the group of three individuals who chose to chase him that February afternoon to say that ANY sort of burglary ever took place on that construction site property prior to February 23rd. And it is telling to me that the alleged theft was only reported AFTER Mr. Arbery lay dead in the street.

now I can only speak to what my own actions would be if someone, anyone, in the weeks prior to February 23rd had robbed my garage of $2500 dollars of fishing equipment. I would have filed a police report. Seems the only report this particular property owner filed was with the neighbors, including former LEO the sr. McMichael and his son who went on to shoot an unarmed man.

 

[LietKynes]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Some people could care less about a person but use it for their own gain.
This has been evident with many 'celeb's and political figures.
IF LeBron really cares, let's see him donate money to Ahmaud's family to ensure answers, a fair trial (yes I know Ahmaud is deceased, I meant 'fair trial' for the killers where every action is accounted for including why a 'cover up' is accepted in that state/county/city ) -- and to have that corrupt DA removed from office.
Of course we know he'll do nothing of the sort.
Words are usually cheaper.

I just want to see answers and justice done for this mans' family.

The fact that LE actually listened to the DA and obeyed her instructions to make this 'go away' makes me think this city has other misdeeds covered up in the past !

It's too bad LE didn't listen to Ms. Johnson, and instead just go ahead and arrest the men.
Some police need to 'grow a pair' when they know an injustice has been done.
If found not guilty, both of them would have been released.
But questions would remain that needed to be answered.
Imo.

 

[kaen]

<modsnip: personalizing> They saw him where he didn't belong and tried to hold him for the cops. The fact he attacked and fought him, grabbed a gun while hitting him, was an act of violence that caused him to defend himself. Now if they shot him from the pickup while driving up to him, you would have a point.

Mr. Arbery has not been accused of a crime yet he seems to be referred to as a criminal time and time again or it is insinuated that he was a bad actor here (which is opinion, not fact as none of us were there or will be on the jury that hears this case). It is not a crime to be in a place where "you don't belong" until the police say it is. Mr. Arbery committed no felony so these men had no right to try and hold him. They may have witnessed a trespass but they did not witness a felony. The older male here is a retired police officer and is most likely very aware that citizen arrests are for felonies only.

As far as I know, it is not a crime to be in a neighborhood where you don't live. Some might have supposition that he was casing the area but there is no proof.

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped>

At this point, Mr. Arbery is a victim of a crime (2 people are arrested in his murder) and Websleuths is victim friendly. So, I go by that.

 

[jaxibear]

Is there a link to a report or autopsy that proves exactly when he was shot? Everything I have read said that that has not been determined.

 

[Strangeworld]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I must remember this sage advice if I am ever cornered, intimidated or attacked by someone in the future. Just keep my hands to myself..... <modsnip>

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Mr. Arbery has not been accused of a crime yet he seems to be referred to as a criminal time and time again or it is insinuated that he was a bad actor here (which is opinion, not fact as none of us were there or will be on the jury that hears this case). It is not a crime to be in a place where "you don't belong" until the police say it is. Mr. Arbery committed no felony so these men had no right to try and hold him. They may have witnessed a trespass but they did not witness a felony. The older male here is a retired police officer and is most likely very aware that citizen arrests are for felonies only.

As far as I know, it is not a crime to be in a neighborhood where you don't live. Some might have supposition that he was casing the area but there is no proof.

I haven't called them white or racist but I have called them vigilantes because you can't chase someone down and try to restrict their freedom in this state UNLESS there is evidence of a felony.

At this point, Mr. Arbery is a victim of a crime (2 people are arrested in his murder) and Websleuths is victim friendly. So, I go by that.

Just remember, once someone dies they drop all charges. There are priors tho... And he has passed away. So there's that.

 

[Cryptic]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

On average, I prefer the company of men like them. But at the end of the day, these particular men committed a crime.

They saw him where he didn't belong and tried to hold him for the cops.

On the day of the confrontation, none of the men saw him where he did not belong. That is how harebrained their actions were.

The man who called 911 could not articulate why they were chasing him. Likewise, the McMasters initiated the chase because they saw him running down the road and believed that he resembled the trespasser from the video (who might, or might not be the deceased).

 

[Lark]

I keep seeing posts claiming Ahmaud grabbed the shotgun. We don't know that. That's the story of the assailants. It's an involuntary action to put your hand up to block a shot. So no one knows if he actually grabbed the gun or hit Travis.

I reviewed the video frame-by-frame and it shows TRAVIS ADVANCING toward Ahmaud. Not Ahmaud charging Travis. At the 12 second mark, Travis is standing in the middle of the left lane. Ahmaud is running down the center lane on the yellow lines. He veers to the right to go around the truck. At the 15 second mark Ahmaud's foot disappears in front of the passenger tire and you can tell from looking at the shadow, Ahmaud is standing in front of the passenger tire. Meanwhile, Travis has now CROSSED the yellow line and is in front of the driver tire, meaning he advanced on Ahmaud. You can see Travis' hat appear from behind the front of the car as he steps back across the yellow line during the struggle.