GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[Reasonable & Just]

We should all be worried if they can't get a fair trial, even those who've, in their minds, already hung 'em high. It's their constitutional right to a fair trial. We can't apply that only when it's convenient or feels right under the circumstances. AMOO

I agree with that. But I think they have plenty of supporters and are well-connected. They'll get as fair a trial as anyone who is accused of such a heinous crime would. That's always a concern with terrorism trials, because of what a chilling effect the crime has on the entire community. While these charges aren't terrorism, the effect of knowing these guys felt entitled to drive around and accost people with guns is chilling, IMO. And I really wish people, including the defendants, cared more about Mr. Arbery's rights.

 

[Boxer]

We should all be worried if they can't get a fair trial, even those who've, in their minds, already hung 'em high. It's their constitutional right to a fair trial. We can't apply that only when it's convenient or feels right under the circumstances. AMOO

You are correct. The kind of justice that it looks like they thought they had a right to exert is overboard for peer citizens. The police were one minute away and heard the shots.

Travis McM apparently thought showing a shotgun would automatically ensure compliance, but Arbery was being chased by armed white men in vehicles and he isn't thinking they are just "concerned citizens arresting me for walking onto a construction site a few minutes ago."
Also MOO it's likely McM Jr. thought Arbery took his handgun from his unlocked truck, (or McM Jr. lost his handgun on New years Eve and told his Dad it was stolen.)

MOO either way he would be invested in Arbery being held responsible for his missing handgun.

 

[tlcya]

I had not heard that he is ill. That's very sad. Do you have a link? TIA

He said he is severely ill and is building the waterfront home as part of his bucket list. But he said it’s now unlikely his family will ever move into the Brunswick home because he’s faced death threats and his wife is too afraid. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...cal-officials-handling-ahmaud-arberys-murder/

 

[zencompass]

In the police report, Officer Brandeberry states that he had his bodycam turned on and the data has been uploaded.

This will be key evidence as well.

Ahmaud Arbery Police Report | Law Enforcement | Crime & Justice | Free 30-day Trial | Scribd

ETA: Just scroll down on the linked page to read the entire police report. There's no need to press "download".

 

[Hope4More]

I highly disagree.
Street view uses a magnified, fish eye camera lens. That's why everything looks longer. Including the houses and front yards.

Disagree away. I don't understand how the point is relevant in any case, since NEITHER OF THE MM'S HAS EVER CLAIMED THAT THEY WITNESSED/SAW/SPOTTED AA ON E'S PROPERTY THAT DAY.

MM told LE he was in TM's front yard when he first saw AA that day- RUNNING DOWN SATILLA DRIVE. That would be after AA had entered and left E's property.

And.......unlike 911 caller #1, MM never said peep to 911 about AA going into/onto E's property. Because he didn't see AA do that.

 

[MsBetsy]

I had not heard that he is ill. That's very sad. Do you have a link? TIA

I don't know how to link articles but it's been mentioned in several.

I think it's included in his lawyers statement which would be a great article to post here if someone knows how.

I think it's from WTOC11. I mentioned it earlier. The lawyers name is Elizabeth Graddy and she is the one who said she questions whether the first two prosecutors handling of the case may have violated the Georgia Bar's Rules of Professional Responsibility.

It sounds like a possibility since the GBI Director said that the fact that within 36 hours they secured warrants for felony murder speaks volumes for itself. It did not take them long to find probable cause.

Imo

 

[SharonNeedles]

Disagree away. I don't understand how the point is relevant in any case, since NEITHER OF THE MM'S HAS EVER CLAIMED THAT THEY WITNESSED/SAW/SPOTTED AA ON E'S PROPERTY THAT DAY.

MM told LE he was in TM's front yard when he first saw AA that day- RUNNING DOWN SATILLA DRIVE. That would be after AA had entered and left E's property.

And.......unlike 911 caller #1, MM never said peep to 911 about AA going into/onto E's property. Because he didn't see AA do that.

Wasn’t TM the first 911 caller? The guy that can clearly be seen in the surveillance video observing AA in the house?

LISTEN: 911 Dispatcher Doesn’t Understand What Arbery Is ‘Doing Wrong’

 

[Matic]

Disagree away. I don't understand how the point is relevant in any case, since NEITHER OF THE MM'S HAS EVER CLAIMED THAT THEY WITNESSED/SAW/SPOTTED AA ON E'S PROPERTY THAT DAY.

MM told LE he was in TM's front yard when he first saw AA that day- RUNNING DOWN SATILLA DRIVE. That would be after AA had entered and left E's property.

And.......unlike 911 caller #1, MM never said peep to 911 about AA going into/onto E's property. Because he didn't see AA do that.

My post of the map showing the distances between the neighborhood was simply that. A map. I implied nothing, you did.

I said absolutely NOTHING in regards to whether or not the MM's actually saw AA on the property. NO WHERE IN ANY POST SINCE I'VE BEEN IN THIS THREAD.

The post that I disagreed with you was the overhead view vs the street view. THE ACCURACY. The satellite images are NOT fisheyed like the Google street view is.

You are reading into my posts a bit to much and putting words in my mouth.

 

[Hope4More]

Wasn’t TM the first 911 caller? The guy that can clearly be seen in the surveillance video observing AA in the house?

LISTEN: 911 Dispatcher Doesn’t Understand What Arbery Is ‘Doing Wrong’

No, TM was not the first caller to 911. According to what MM told LE, at 1:08 PM, when the call was made, TM was in his house and would be until MM ran inside and told him to grab a gun, they were going in hot pursuit of the Burglar.

 

[sds71]

Wasn’t TM the first 911 caller? The guy that can clearly be seen in the surveillance video observing AA in the house?

LISTEN: 911 Dispatcher Doesn’t Understand What Arbery Is ‘Doing Wrong’

I think the first caller was J.R.O. 219 who lives at Satilla Drive

 

[kaen]

We should all be worried if they can't get a fair trial, even those who've, in their minds, already hung 'em high. It's their constitutional right to a fair trial. We can't apply that only when it's convenient or feels right under the circumstances. AMOO

While I agree that I want them to have a fair trial, I am often confused when the idea of fairness and justice seems to be elusive to others such as the victim in this case. Mr. Arbery appeared to have done nothing wrong but seemed to not find fairness and advocacy in the avenues of justice in the Brunswick area and among many people outside of law enforcement. The only saving grace in this whole situation is that a video exists, otherwise, Mr. Arbery would have been painted with a brush that allowed for these men to escape any accountability and questions. Once this video (and, now these videos) have come to light it is amazing that Mr. Arbery will be getting a day in court that allows for justice to be discussed, evidence presented and justice to be served. Mr. Arbery will never get to have exoneration because some people will always opine that he should have done x or y and would not have been harmed. However, Mr. Arbery was running down a street, stopped by a construction site, and continued to run. He had every right to evade these men. When they continued to harass him he engaged. It is unfortunate that these men felt they could take justice into their own hands.

For too long, status quo has driven some of our judicial systems. Vigilante justice in any form eats away at our freedoms and democracy. Sunlight is the ultimate disinfectant/

 

[SharonNeedles]

No, TM was not the first caller to 911. According to what MM told LE, at 1:08 PM, when the call was made, TM was in his house and would be until MM ran inside and told him to grab a gun, they were going in hot pursuit of the Burglar.

That link identifies the caller as TM.

 

[Falling Down]

According to a G. County official, LE on the scene found abundant probable cause to arrest both MM's on the spot, simply on the basis that both were armed and the victim bleeding out in the middle of the street was not.

I agree that the GBI didn't find anything on the videos that provided justification for, much less exoneration of, MM's actions. IMO the GBI might have made that public statement about the videos to part to neutralize the damage DA Barnhill did in his recusal letter. (By unethically stating his own conclusion that the MM's made a lawful citizen's arrest, based on their viewing of those same nighttime surveillance tapes by English).

Just based off of that information, this whole thing won't sit well with a grand jury.

One "incident", in this case a nighttime surveillance video, is not related to the other, a daytime incident on a separate date.

If Barnhill is using the nighttime surveillance video as a reason to justify what the father and son did, then he should lose his law license in Georgia/be disbarred.

In my mind the father and son were targeting someone and perhaps even retaliating over an earlier incident that very well may have nothing at all to do with Arbery, and even if Arbery were involved in some kind of local theft deal, their actions still aren't justified.

Not only was Arbery unarmed, which by itself does not automatically justify second-guessing the use of defensive or even deadly force in a confrontation but it appears the father and son were not justified (my opinion), he didn't have any property on his person. On a public thoroughfare/right-of-way (street in this case), where previous to the confrontation nobody's personal, property, or civil rights were violated by Arbery.

JMO

 

[Hope4More]

That link identifies the caller as TM.

That link isn't accurate. Unless MM lied about where he was and where TM was, and that he saw AA first and then told TM what he'd seen. What's more common sensical is that the caller was the fellow in the surveillance tape who can be seen directly across from E's property at the time the call was made.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

He (reportedly) said that there was fishing equipment stolen from the home but there was no police report filed. Imo

Okay, thank you.

Learning that English is gravely ill, makes this already tragic situation even more so. It also explains why he might not be too keen on spending time filing an insurance claim, if, as it was reported, someone stole 2k+ worth of fishing gear. On a good day, dealing with a homeowner's claim is a hassle, let alone when someone is so ill that he won't be finishing the house he started.

I don't have any way of knowing, and I hope this isn't the case. But if English is dealing with end of life issues, that could explain why his story appears to have changed from one report to the next. I wouldn't want to spend any precious time I had being hounded by reporters and potentially dealing with a hostile public. (Depending on the version of the story he tells.) This is just a horrible situation all the way around.

 

[sds71]

there was also a call to the non emergency number
DailyMail.com tracked down a man who called police on Ahmaud Arbery after seeing him entering a home under construction in Brunswick, Georgia

• The neighbor admitted he was suspicious of Arbery, because 'you don't go jogging wearing saggy pants, saggy shorts'
• He decided to alert police via a non-emergency number because the 'intruder' had 'no business' trespassing on the property around 1pm on February
• The man interviewed by DailyMail.com is on a police list of eyewitnesses so his evidence will likely play a part when the explosive case goes to trial
• He lives 350 yards from the construction site at 220 Satilla Drive and would only speak with DailyMail.com on condition of anonymity because he fears reprisals
  The witness said he had never personally seen Arbery before and had no evidence he was linked to the theft or any other crimes
• Man who called police on Ahmaud Arbery says he was suspicious because of 'saggy pants' | Daily Mail Online

 

[cody22]

I wonder why they didn't just follow him home (at a safe and respectful distance) and let the police know where to find him for questioning? It's not like he was running away with someone's toddler. That I could understand.

^^^^^ This is the " heart of this tragedy" for everyone involved.........Just follow him until LE shows up to question him.........moo

 

[zencompass]

I don't know how to link articles but it's been mentioned in several.

I think it's included in his lawyers statement which would be a great article to post here if someone knows how.

I think it's from WTOC11. I mentioned it earlier. The lawyers name is Elizabeth Graddy and she is the one who said she questions whether the first two prosecutors handling of the case may have violated the Georgia Bar's Rules of Professional Responsibility.

It sounds like a possibility since the GBI Director said that the fact that within 36 hours they secured warrants for felony murder speaks volumes for itself. It did not take them long to find probable cause.

Imo

Here is one statement made by Elizabeth Graddy in the following article:

Homeowner’s attorney, Arbery family’s attorney respond to new video

 

[cody22]

Statement made by Elizabeth Graddy in the following article:

Homeowner’s attorney, Arbery family’s attorney respond to new video

I want to see the unshown rest of that video and possibly why Mr. Arbery walked into that house and left it on the run......moo

 

[Hope4More]

there was also a call to the non emergency number
DailyMail.com tracked down a man who called police on Ahmaud Arbery after seeing him entering a home under construction in Brunswick, Georgia

• The neighbor admitted he was suspicious of Arbery, because 'you don't go jogging wearing saggy pants, saggy shorts'
• He decided to alert police via a non-emergency number because the 'intruder' had 'no business' trespassing on the property around 1pm on February
• The man interviewed by DailyMail.com is on a police list of eyewitnesses so his evidence will likely play a part when the explosive case goes to trial
• He lives 350 yards from the construction site at 220 Satilla Drive and would only speak with DailyMail.com on condition of anonymity because he fears reprisals
  The witness said he had never personally seen Arbery before and had no evidence he was linked to the theft or any other crimes
• Man who called police on Ahmaud Arbery says he was suspicious because of 'saggy pants' | Daily Mail Online

He's the "911" 1st caller; he's the fellow seen in the surveillance video ( from camera at 219 Satilla Drive); he's not TM, and how illuminating to hear that wearing baggy pants or shorts is somehow nefarious or just not done when jogging.