Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[IceIce9]

Guys, I'm confused about the pacemaker chat.

Can someone break it down real simple:

Are we saying the pacemaker *would* report an urgent event - but did *not* report his death?

What would count as an urgent event if not death?

Or is it possible the doctor did receive a report but didn't act upon it?

It would report an event like an arrhythmia, notification that battery was going to be expiring in 12 months, etc.

It does not report a death to the doctor.

 

[IceIce9]

A pacemaker can stop, imo, but that wouldn't necessarily kill a person. But they could slip into brachycardia, ie too slow a heart beat and sooner or later lack of o2 could kill. JMO

A pacemaker would correct bradycardia. Bradycardia is actually the most common reason for a pacemaker.

JMO

 

[Gemmie]

In regards to these photos i initially thought the same.
however other photos from the same day show him walking on his own in the same clothes even without the cane, albeit frail
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Also this link contains a video of Gene spotted driving and ordering fast food in Mar 2023. he does seem healthy mentally too and still independent.
although the friends are saying the last year was a major decline

Reclusive Gene Hackman, 93, looks fit in first sighting in years

The two-time Oscar winner — who celebrated his 93rd birthday back in January — looked fit and healthy as he made a rare outing in New Mexico on Sunday.

nypost.com

Wow! He looked really sharp there in the video for 93 years old in the video you posted!!! Looks like all the yoga and nurturing from Betsy did him a whole lotta good! *decides to take up yoga*

 

[NuttMegg]

A pacemaker would correct bradycardia. Bradycardia is actually the most common reason for a pacemaker.

JMO

That's what I said although maybe it wasn't real clear. If a pacemaker stops. the person risks going into bradycardia. (I
had spelled that wrong). But there are different degrees of bradycardia. Athletes often have lower heart rates because their bodies pump and use o2 more efficiently. But with a non athlete or older person that same heart rate within bradycardia could be fatal, quickly or more slowly. I meant only that imo, in general, just because a pacemaker stops it does not guarantee sudden death.

 

[NuttMegg]

A pacemaker can stop, imo, but that wouldn't necessarily kill a person. But they could slip into brachycardia, ie too slow a heart beat and sooner or later lack of o2 could kill. JMO

Bradycardia

 

[SMK777]

it really is but i also know how rapidly one can go downhill these 2 photos i assume same location were within a year of each other and it certainly seems to have taken a lot out of him
March 2023
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and sometime within the last year. his hands look awful in comparison
besides the same shoes hat and sunglasses, man seems to like the same snacks
View attachment 567491

Oh, sad. Yes his hands had indeed deteriorated.

 

[JDG]

A pacemaker can stop, imo, but that wouldn't necessarily kill a person. But they could slip into brachycardia, ie too slow a heart beat and sooner or later lack of o2 could kill. JMO

I don’t think pacemakers ‘stop’ but the battery runs out if not replaced.

It’s usually replaced about 4-6 months before it runs out.

Not all pacemakers alert the doctor about anything.

Thousands of people go to have their pacemaker ‘read’ & to make sure all is well.

That’s when problems, if any, are discovered.

 

[NuttMegg]

I don’t think pacemakers ‘stop’ but the battery runs out if not replaced.

It’s usually replaced about 4-6 months before it runs out.

Not all pacemakers alert the doctor about anything.

Thousands of people go to have their pacemaker ‘read’ & to make sure all is well.

That’s when problems, if any, are discovered.

If the battery was dead, the pacemaker would not "STOP"?

 

[avalonisland]

Yes, this scenario of Hackman having a medical problem and Betsy running to get some meds for him now seems the most likely one IMO. And it caused her to have a medical episode as well, or an accident, so she herself died as well. I think the results of the autopsy will be pushed to come out early, being as already the carbon monoxide results were released. For right or wrong, because of public interest and Gene Hackman's high profile. It is kind of ironic really, sounds like he and his wife wanted to lead a quiet and private life, and now that they are gone, they are in public media everywhere for not only their accomplishments, but due to their unusual last moments.

IMO, wife, who may be the primary caregiver of husband, had a medical episode in the bathroom maybe night before husband died. I think 95 year old husband maybe tried to get her some medication and then went to go get help from neighbor or something, but he collapsed in the mudroom. Not sure who was on Thyroid meds, but usually that medication is taken early morning. It appeared that husband needed help at his age. I think that if husband died first, wife would have called 911 immediately. There is no reasonable explanation that 2 dogs would be able to go inside and outside, but 3rd dog left bathroom crate. A 95 year old man in state of shock at seeing wife on the bathroom floor may not think of letting dog out of crate, but a 65 year old caretaker would have in my opinion again since 2 dogs able to go inside/outside. Tragic death and I don't see either as suspicious.

 

[avalonisland]

I think this is possible. Perhaps he was feeling unwell. B didn’t think it was an immediate danger, and she was off to get his medication. But whatever happened to her, happened, leaving G, without any assistance. He either fell and was unable to get up, or his heart condition was more serious than either realised.

Of course, I don’t know much about the medication found. So this may not fit with the reality of that medication.

The dog, I believe, is almost a red herring. For whatever reason, it was in a crate and therefore unable to access resources once its owners had both passed away. Truly heartbreaking and something I don’t want to spend much time thinking about tbh.

It is unlikely to the point of being almost unrealistic. But we have two deceased people within the same time frame, so it just may have happened.

It's just strange that a sudden fall like if heart related causing one to collapse would not yield some sort of injury to head or body. If he tripped, he would most likely use hands to try and stop the fall. Maybe felt heart issue and sat down on floor.

 

[JDG]

If the battery was dead, the pacemaker would not "STOP"?

They do not let the battery die, it’s replaced.

 

[avalonisland]

Can we quote CNN as a legit source? Per this interview this a.m., per Joseph Scott Morgan, "Distinguished Professor of Applied Forensics, Jackson State University,"

"This is a multiple death scenario. This is not common. Particularly...I worked for the M.E. in Atlanta, I worked for the coroner in the New Orleans area, and... in my recollection, I've never worked a case with multiple deaths in a single structure that weren't either trauma-related, or there was some type of toxin in the air, or something that had been ingested. And then, on top of this, we have this dead canine as well, that was found adjacent to her in the bathroom...."

FOOD FOR THOUGHT. I still lean towards Betsy having a medical event first, without there being anything in the air/or food (toxin).

If there was some kind of toxin in the air/or ingested, would it be accidental or purposeful? edit: these are my thoughts of what may have happened.


1. accidental death of Betsy due to a medical event. Betsy's perishing leads to Gene's death
2. Accidental death of Gene, which leads Betsy to have a medical event and die as well
3. they both were overcome by something in the air/or ingested, but it was accidental
4. they both were overcome by something in the air/or ingested, but it was purposeful (homicide)
5. homicide (strangulation, suffocation, injected with sux, etc.) but staged to look like an accident.

As stated before, I lean towards the dog's untimely death as a red herring, as he would've died without water after a few days of being crated. Although, if it was something ingested/in the air, he may have perished at the same time.

I am leaning towards #1 scenario. If Betsy had a medical event first, maybe it was at night or early morning...before letting dog out of crate.

 

[STAGNUM]

If the pacemaker was malfunctioning or if it detected an arrhythmia it would have alerted the physician’s office.

One of my friends has a pacemaker and a few times she has received a call from her cardiologist’s office asking her to come in because they got an alert from her pacemaker. Once they told her to be driven to the ER.

A pacemaker itself is not going to alert the physicians office automatically. The pacemaker (typically) has a couple of transceivers for interrogation by the doctor or technician. In your friends case, there is a UHF signal that radiates only a few yards and requires a receiver that is usually in a bedroom and connected by a phone line. This has a monthly fee and is a hassle to make work reliably unless you have a landline that is reliable. My parents had two of these and it was a nightmare of wires and they still had to go to the Doctor regularly because the system did not work. It was an expense they felt was wasteful and soon cancelled the service.

 

[bmacmillan1]

Oh, sad. Yes his hands had indeed deteriorated.

It's now nearly two years later from when those pics were taken. He would have aged even more rapidly in that time and I would imagine he must have been very frail at 95.

 

[Sarahlou]

Edit - sorry misread

 

[Cherwell]

I wanna add even though they had the 3 dogs for protection, that was it. No security. I still consider them to be somewhat vulnerable as a 63-year-old Asian woman living with a 95-year-old man. If this was a homicide, one would have to first subdue Betsy, and then Gene probably wouldn't be difficult to subdue because of his age. Since their lives were reclusive, the perp would have a lot of time to stage the scene.

Isn't it a gated community though? So there was security, but not on the doorstep.
And i agree with your option 1. It's by far the most obvious explanation.

 

[Cherwell]

It's just strange that a sudden fall like if heart related causing one to collapse would not yield some sort of injury to head or body. If he tripped, he would most likely use hands to try and stop the fall. Maybe felt heart issue and sat down on floor.

There might have been bruising, but it would be hidden by postmortem lividity.

 

[avalonisland]

A bit unusual in her case, but not in the case of a 95 year old. But we don’t know a thing about her health history. Did she have heart problems? A history of blood clots? High blood pressure? Etc. many things that could contribute to a sudden death.

That is why I think maybe she died first, he fell, then unable to get up without her help suffered a cardiac event.

I also think she may have died first. From the last outing picture a year ago, it appears he needed caregiver assistance even walking with a cane. If he had medical episode first, I would think she would have called 911. Maybe they slept in different rooms and she had a medical episode and died hours before he found her? If he had medical episode, 911, then maybe meds, but not leave dog in crate as med emergency husband would mean 911 emergency, going to hospital A 95 year old man with health issues might not think about dog or even be able to call 911. How many pills left in 2 bottles could also show when one of them died if taking meds as prescribed.

 

[formerreddingrunner]

Isn't it a gated community though? So there was security, but not on the doorstep.
And i agree with your option 1. It's by far the most obvious explanation.

Oh, good point!! I didn't consider the security of the gated community. thanks for that. : )

 

[priyaya]

Isn't it a gated community though? So there was security, but not on the doorstep.
And i agree with your option 1. It's by far the most obvious explanation.

heres how isolated it is. you'd really have to have a plan to get in and out,
also when i zoom in, it does appear there is a gate going up to the road, but that might be tree shadows
address is in the affidavit

yes that's a gate in 3D view