Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home. #2

[nao]

Moo ..not everyone wants to live forever...and as a person that accepts that if you are in an emotional relationship....I don't think you would ever know how you would react. They had been isolated for a while. They chose isolation. And that ok....moo

 

[Megnut]

This might be true, but worth clarifying that all of this conjecture about them having medical events etc is only based on the information we have so far.

The police haven't taken it at face value, they have removed phones for analysis, done fingerprints, examined the scene, removed various items and they are running toxicology reports. They said there was no obvious sign of foul play, but if the deaths were transparently innocent then why would they bother investigating?

I feel personally very glad that they are looking into this. To rule out that something nefarious has happened here. Especially in light of Gene's 80million dollar fortune which we just learned about above!

Hopefully the toxicology report will be illuminating and will indicate to police from what medical event Gene and Betsy died.

Pretty sure unattended deaths require investigation. And two of them in proximity, causes and manners of death need to be determined and the ME will take into consideration all the facts before them, including how and where the bodies were found. Might even request LE to return to the home to gather more information, as we've seen in other cases.

I suspect, like many posters here, a chain reaction. One thing caused another, resulting in three tangled deaths.

JMO

 

[Kemug]

Life savers they are amazing. Its kind of a shame they are not more widely used. Like anyone with an older family member like that as risk of falling etc should make sure they have one.

Wearing a medical alert can indeed be a lifesaver. But it's by no means foolproof. My aunt was wearing one when she fell aged 83. She wasn't really injured, but couldn't get up. So she lay there for hours and hours until her cleaning lady arrived. When asked why she hadn't pressed her alert button, which she was indeed wearing around her neck, her answer was "I didn't think to."
Now this was a lady who was still very active - delivering Meals on Wheels, secretary of the local National Trust Society, went swimming every day, etc etc. She had been a teacher, as well as a Teachers College lecturer, and was thought to be still 100% mentally. But she just "didn't think to" press the alarm button.
So yes, dear people, by all means get one for your elderly loved ones, but don't let them take the place of personal and regular check ups.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

A gas company allegedly discovered a leak, though it's stated it wouldn't have been a lethal amount.

This week, however, a local gas company has concluded there was a "minuscule" leak but it was not considered to be lethal.

Their investigation found a small leak from one of the stove burners. The New Mexico Gas Company has "confirmed it conducted an extensive investigation for gas leaks and carbon monoxide", according to the Santa Fe Sheriff’s Department. There were "no significant findings" made but the gas company flagged five red tags.

"One red tag was for a minuscule leak (0.33% gas in air – not a lethal amount) at one of the stove burners," said the press release. "The other four red tags were for code enforcement violations — not involving gas leaks or carbon monoxide — involving a water heater and gas log lighters installed in three fireplaces."

Source

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It's a very Aussie breed. Like cattle dogs. Both breeds were developed here in the nineteenth century as working dogs for sheep and cattle. Kelpies are theorised to have some dingo, cattle dogs we know do. But to be honest, there is a lot of interbreeding between the two. These aren't dogs reserved for looks, they're working dogs, and people breed for desired traits of temperament and trainability, if it's done deliberately at all and isn't just the result of undesexed dogs doing what nature intended.

MOO

morning, Shadow....
I don't quite understand your sentence here... could you add more???
and people breed for desired traits of temperament and trainability, if it's done deliberately at all and isn't just the result of undesexed dogs doing what nature intended.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

A neighboring farmer to us when I was a kid had a similar dog, what we call Australian cattle dogs here in the southeastern US. He was an amazing working dog (very salt & pepper coat with a tad bit of bronze) who worked cattle. He was the first I ever saw. You're right in that they are not beauty type dogs. They are hardcore working dogs. This type is a little bit more common here. They are fine cattle dogs. I hadn't thought of them being related to Kelpies but it makes total sense to me now. Sadly, many of these breeds end up in rescue here because they end up in homes that just do not understand the needs of this breed to work and be stimulated. I read in a previous post that Zinna had ended up in a shelter at some point before being adopted by the Hackmans. This whole thing is just so SAD on all accounts.

Regarding you last couple of sentences. I read how much care and concern She had given to Zinna...Zinna was cherished and loved.... whatever the crate situation was, I am certain it was to benefit Zinna...

 

[iamshadow21]

morning, Shadow....
I don't quite understand your sentence here... could you add more???
and people breed for desired traits of temperament and trainability, if it's done deliberately at all and isn't just the result of undesexed dogs doing what nature intended.

I meant there are plenty of cattle kelpie crossbreeds out there, because people breed good working dogs together on purpose, not for aesthetics but for how good they are for the job. But you also get a bunch of crossbreeds because people gave got undesexed dogs housed together and they have litters of pups of mixed breed.

MOO

 

[LoveyG]

I have a few thoughts to offer, as a local and as someone who lived through her mother's dementia and paranoia. . . . Reading local coverage since I live in Santa Fe and the NYT, I'm struck by the "friends" who hadn't seen BA or GH in months, even years. Also the fact that family members said they only spoke to BA on the phone, when they could reach her. So I have a theory, unsubstantiated, that something was wrong with BA. This happens in May-December couples where everyone assumes the younger partner will outlive or enjoy better health than than the elder partner. What if BA had an onset of dementia which caused more and more isolation? What if she was the one who crumbled first in the bathroom, and GH was trying to get help when he fell? I've read that only she possessed a phone. So if GH were panicked, mightn't he head for the door rather than search for her phone? This would explain why one dog was still in its crate, if this happened in the morning.

There is a desire for isolation I fully understand. Most of us in New Mexico feel this way. But there is also a paranoia/unhealthy isolation that can rule one's life as they move into dementia. GH had been dependent on BA, and if she had moved into a less-healthy state of mind, it would have been a slow process and he wouldn't have noticed or been alarmed -- until it was too late.

I agree with your possible scenario.

This happened in my own family with my elderly father, with dementia, and his much younger wife. She developed a significant mental health crisis and was isolating them. Fortunately we caught on to it before it was too late for him and we were close enough, geographically, to force our physical and legal presence on them. In the end, she perished at the young age of 65. He was under our care and conservatorship and continued to live for years. Very sad for him (and her), terrifying for us.

 

[Quill]

Regarding you last couple of sentences. I read how much care and concern She had given to Zinna...Zinna was cherished and loved.... whatever the crate situation was, I am certain it was to benefit Zinna...

Oh, I 100% agree with you. Rereading my post I can see how I wasn't clear on my point. I am a firm believer in crate training for dogs. When done properly, it is a wonderful management tool for so many issues. I think every dog needs should have some training maintained because when they have a health issue, it is less stressful if they are accustomed to some amount of kenneling. I really wasn't judging them because Zinna was found in a crate, really I wasn't. I think she eventually ended up with them because she had been in a shelter and my point I was trying to make was that many of that breed do because they get misplace in homes where they can't do their "job". From all I have read, I am sure the Gene & Betsy gave Zinna a wonderful next chance at a good life and gave her all she needed.

 

[tomstrees]

Hantavirus is not uncommon in the southwest. They lived insular, isolated lives and they may not have wanted to go to a doctor if they'd come down with something.

Gene and Betsy were true lovers of their dogs and would never have intentionally done anything to endanger their lives, thus we need to rule any thoughts of suicide out; plus it would be totally out of character with people who had very strong wills to live.

 

[iamshadow21]

Hantavirus is not uncommon in the southwest. They lived insular, isolated lives and they may not have wanted to go to a doctor if they'd come down with something.

Gene and Betsy were true lovers of their dogs and would never have intentionally done anything to endanger their lives, thus we need to rule any thoughts of suicide out; plus it would be totally out of character with people who had very strong wills to live.

My understanding is that hantavirus leaves very obvious lung damage. It would have been observed at autopsy.

MOO

 

[Sunshynn]

My understanding is that hantavirus leaves very obvious lung damage. It would have been observed at autopsy.

MOO

Agree with this - however - they have not released autopsy results other than they tested negative for carbon monoxide and there were no outward signs of a fall being the cause of death.

MOO

IMO, they are waiting for the toxicology results to come back before they make a ruling on death.
They may very well know what happened but have not released anything to the public, jmo.

 

[Deleted member 235284]

I think they probably know aswell, but just want the tox results back to ensure there was no others factors at play.

 

[formerreddingrunner]

Hantavirus is not uncommon in the southwest. They lived insular, isolated lives and they may not have wanted to go to a doctor if they'd come down with something.

that's a really good point! FYI, there was even a Forensic Files episode on Hantavirus (if you have Amazon prime, it's available on Prime Videos in the US/Canada, possibly in other countries as well). Season 4, Episode 12 "Forensic Files" With Every Breath (TV Episode 1999) 7.1 | Documentary, Crime

I agree with the others: I believe the autopsy would show fluid in the lungs (like @iamshadow21 said), but also they also haven't released the autopsy yet (like @Sunshynn said). So, until they release the autopsy results, we won't know! insert shrug emoji.

It would be kind of cool if they said, "We've ruled out hantavirus" in a press conference, just because it is a disease in the area, but they're under no obligation to do so. It's their investigation.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

so just checked and looks like their house gets full verizon coverage for cell service despite being isolated.

I was wondering if maybe cell phone service was inconsistent but looks pretty solid and consistent in the area
source
View attachment 568070

so just checked and looks like their house gets full verizon coverage for cell service despite being isolated.

I was wondering if maybe cell phone service was inconsistent but looks pretty solid and consistent in the area
source
View attachment 568070

FWIW - where I live in Santa Fe I must use WiFi in order to use my phone. Verizon, my carrier, shows coverage but without WiFi I’d have to stand outside at one corner of my house to text or make a call. This is a notorious fact of Santa Fe life.

 

[formerreddingrunner]

FWIW - where I live in Santa Fe I must use WiFi in order to use my phone. Verizon, my carrier, shows coverage but without WiFi I’d have to stand outside at one corner of my house to text or make a call. This is a notorious fact of Santa Fe life.

Wow. that's interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

"No cell phone service" in their house may be a reason why neither BA nor GH called 9-1-1---if they had a few minutes to do so.

If they were not immediately incapacitated or immobilized, I mean.

 

[LoveyG]

Wow. that's interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

"No cell phone service" in their house may be a reason why neither BA nor GH called 9-1-1---if they had a few minutes to do so.

If they were not immediately incapacitated or immobilized, I mean.

IIRC, the 911 caller said the phone connection was spotty.

Hopefully, someone with the call at their fingertips can confirm/deny.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Wow. that's interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

"No cell phone service" in their house may be a reason why neither BA nor GH called 9-1-1---if they had a few minutes to do so.

If they were not immediately incapacitated or immobilized, I mean.

We don't know if they had a land line.

 

[formerreddingrunner]

We don't know if they had a land line.

LOL. Good point!!!!
I forgot everyone doesn't live like me.

 

[NuttMegg]

We don't know if they had a land line.

And/Or WIFI