Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #2

[Davieson]

Were they though?
I thought digital materials were found during the extensive legal searches of CB's various properties

That'll be for the judge to decide. The question of legality has apparently been raised and will need to be resolved.

 

[RichardKimble]

Prozess in Braunschweig: Christian B. schweigt, Verteidiger sät Zweifel

Nach dem Eklat um die Schöffin wurde nun die Anklage verlesen. Christian B. redete nicht, dafür sein Anwalt. Was dieser zu sagen hatte.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

The Braunschweig local paper is worth a look, seems a relatively comprehensive summary of the day.

Looks as if the judge had to step in.

Prosecutor Ute Lindemann was aware of her displeasure with the lecture: for a short time there was a dispute between her and Fülscher. The presiding judge Dr. Engemann made it clear, that there is nothing to be said against such a defense statement.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That'll be for the judge to decide. The question of legality has apparently been raised and will need to be resolved.

IMO, digital material from one property - the box factory. Other properties were searched but nothing was found.

 

[misty48]

IMO, digital material from one property - the box factory. Other properties were searched but nothing was found.

Hadn't police already found CSA material on CB's computer at his apartment in 2015(?) following a complaint against him by his ex-girlfriend? The search of the box factory seems to have been legal.

Großeinsatz in der Börde:Kinderporno-Razzia auf vermülltem Fabrikgelände

Bei einer Großrazzia in einem kleinen Dorf in der Börde geht es um Kinderpornographie und illegale Abfallentsorgung!

www.bild.de

 

[Officer Dibble]

I hope Hazel gets justice. And all the other victims too.

 

[Anxala]

Prozess in Braunschweig: Christian B. schweigt, Verteidiger sät Zweifel

Nach dem Eklat um die Schöffin wurde nun die Anklage verlesen. Christian B. redete nicht, dafür sein Anwalt. Was dieser zu sagen hatte.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

The Braunschweig local paper is worth a look, seems a relatively comprehensive summary of the day.

Thanks for link @LenaOdenthal , it's very informative, just had a proper read of it now.

Probably a good source for the coverage of the remainder of the trial too, which is great.

 

[Anxala]

It does look like FF will push the angle that the BKA/prosecutors are out to get CB. The illegal wiretap of his prison phone seems strange if true.

The scar/tattoo is already being used to suggest that CB cannot be guilty of the HaB crime.

I also wonder if a warrant is required to search property in Germany and if the police had one for the box factory.

If the material found here can be struck out, then I think the MM case is in tatters.

Yeah, it's a bit disconcerting, the alleged behind-the-scenes shenanigans on the part of the BKA. If the case, can't see that going down too well with the judges...

 

[Mex]

Hadn't police already found CSA material on CB's computer at his apartment in 2015(?) following a complaint against him by his ex-girlfriend? The search of the box factory seems to have been legal.

Großeinsatz in der Börde:Kinderporno-Razzia auf vermülltem Fabrikgelände

Bei einer Großrazzia in einem kleinen Dorf in der Börde geht es um Kinderpornographie und illegale Abfallentsorgung!

www.bild.de

I agree that the searches seem to have been carried out legitimately; it will be interesting to hear what the whistle-blower witness alleges when or if testifying and how allegations will be rebutted..

The fact that the defence are are creating a song and dance about it suggests to me there is content that either they prefer doesn't see the light of day in a courtroom setting, or they are just going through the motions on pot luck.
Calling out the lay judge was right and proper from all points of view but frivolous objections may be less appropriate as the jurisdiction objection proved to be.

I think the digital objection controversy is eliminated regarding the two charges concerning abuse of minors. Which leaves the three rapes in the frame regarding digital evidence objected to.

I do not know if the anonymity of the young girl and the older woman is due to them opting for confidentiality and who could blame them for that given that the knives already appear to be out for HB metaphorically speaking.
The allegation of illegality is probably as serious as they come and must merit investigation; how awful would it be were it to mean another long timeout as before with the same conclusion.

 

[Davieson]

I agree that the searches seem to have been carried out legitimately; it will be interesting to hear what the whistle-blower witness alleges when or if testifying and how allegations will be rebutted..

The fact that the defence are are creating a song and dance about it suggests to me there is content that either they prefer doesn't see the light of day in a courtroom setting, or they are just going through the motions on pot luck.
Calling out the lay judge was right and proper from all points of view but frivolous objections may be less appropriate as the jurisdiction objection proved to be.

I think the digital objection controversy is eliminated regarding the two charges concerning abuse of minors. Which leaves the three rapes in the frame regarding digital evidence objected to.

I do not know if the anonymity of the young girl and the older woman is due to them opting for confidentiality and who could blame them for that given that the knives already appear to be out for HB metaphorically speaking.
The allegation of illegality is probably as serious as they come and must merit investigation; how awful would it be were it to mean another long timeout as before with the same conclusion.

I think their identities are genuinely unknown, otherwise there would be accurate dates for the offences and the girl's age would also be known.

 

[Anxala]

I do not know if the anonymity of the young girl and the older woman is due to them opting for confidentiality.

No. If it were that, the dates of both attacks would be known and would have featured on the charge sheet. That would not have compromised the two victims in any way if they'd chosen anonymity. If they were known to the BKA, there would be witness statements from both of them, ready to present in court - again, not remotely compromising their anonymity - and their cases would not be reliant upon the testimony of a pair of dubious witnesses.

Their ids and the dates of their alleged assaults and rapes are clearly unknown. Think about it. Why else would FF be questioning the dates of these attacks and using the vagueness (sometime between 2000 and 2006?) as a legal issue to have these two cases thrown out?

 

[RichardKimble]

I hope Hazel gets justice. And all the other victims too.

I think. we're all on the same page with that, but that only works if the evidence carries it through, I get a sense of feeling that some posters thought or think it's a formality now it's reached the trial stage, seems as if it's going to be anything but.

 

[Mex]

I think their identities are genuinely unknown, otherwise there would be accurate dates for the offences and the girl's age would also be known.

Regarding the older woman

• there is the possibility that she is deceased and therefore unable to give a statement

Regarding the younger woman

• it is possible that she is unable to verify the date and details for a variety of reasons such as being unable to remember ...

I find it difficult to come to terms with the fact that the indictment was allowed for persons unknown without corroborating evidence.
DM personally corroborated the description of her ordeal along with the PJ file on her case so description - file - DM's testimony - forensic evidence identifying CB - all matched up to make the case.
Which is why one wonders if there is corroborating evidence backing up the two accounts and that is to be found on the digital material about which there is the present furore.

No. If it were that, the dates of both attacks would be known and would have featured on the charge sheet. That would not have compromised the two victims in any way if they'd chosen anonymity. If they were known to the BKA, there would be witness statements from both of them, ready to present in court - again, not remotely compromising their anonymity - and their cases would not be reliant upon the testimony of a pair of dubious witnesses.

Their ids and the dates of their alleged assaults and rapes are clearly unknown. Think about it. Why else would FF be questioning the dates of these attacks and using the vagueness (sometime between 2000 and 2006?) as a legal issue to have these two cases thrown out?

The testimony of CB's former friends certainly was anything but dubious. It perfectly matched the recorded ordeal of the survivor of the aggravated rape for which CB stands convicted.

FF's job is to question everything.

He is even questioning HB. Not that her rape was not real but that her account of it is suspect.

 

[Tekno]

“He claimed the female officer, who he named as ‘Rebecca Vogt’, had been asked to put recording equipment in his cell without a court order”.

EXCLUSIVE: How Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'took pleasure in inflicting pain and making victims vomit' - All you need to know from second day of paedophile's multiple sex crimes trial - Olive Press News Spain

By Jon Clarke in Braunschweig HE was a sadistic rapist who took pleasure in inflicting pain and making his victims vomit as he attacked them. That’s

www.theolivepress.es

So, Rebecca Vogt will be testifying for the defense?

 

[Mex]

I think. we're all on the same page with that, but that only works if the evidence carries it through, I get a sense of feeling that some posters thought or think it's a formality now it's reached the trial stage, seems as if it's going to be anything but.

I've not noticed anyone thinking that this trial is done and dusted. Speaking for myself, I'm of the opinion that the charge of the 2017 sexual offence in a playground in Bartolomeu de Messines when he was caught in flagrante and arrested on the spot by an off duty policewoman, is going to be a difficult one to wriggle out of.

But who knows how a court case is going to play out. Just a case of waiting to see.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I've not noticed anyone thinking that this trial is done and dusted. Speaking for myself, I'm of the opinion that the charge of the 2017 sexual offence in a playground in Bartolomeu de Messines when he was caught in flagrante and arrested on the spot by an off duty policewoman, is going to be a difficult one to wriggle out of.

But who knows how a court case is going to play out. Just a case of waiting to see.

It doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter anymore, since there is a trial. It's not important anymore!

Any outcome of the ongoing trials won't matter! Even if the prosecution of these vile crimes may end into an aquittal!

Not a single person in this world will ever get any closer to this kind of "human" called CB anymore.

Except FF probably, who isn't interested in CB's faith either, but it's always useful to get the chance to put a face in front of a camera....

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Hadn't police already found CSA material on CB's computer at his apartment in 2015(?) following a complaint against him by his ex-girlfriend? The search of the box factory seems to have been legal.

Großeinsatz in der Börde:Kinderporno-Razzia auf vermülltem Fabrikgelände

Bei einer Großrazzia in einem kleinen Dorf in der Börde geht es um Kinderpornographie und illegale Abfallentsorgung!

www.bild.de

As I recall, the images of him molesting hie girlfriend’s daughter were found on his Casio camera at the kiosk. Not sure these are evidence in this case, but I doubt it.

In terms of relevance to this trial, the only material found during searches is the 8,000 images from the box factory.

Other properties searched, provided no further evidence.

If this evidence can be thrown out, this probably includes Das Buch which is no doubt why FF is trying.

 

[SuperdadV8]

As I recall, the images of him molesting hie girlfriend’s daughter were found on his Casio camera at the kiosk. Not sure these are evidence in this case, but I doubt it.

In terms of relevance to this trial, the only material found during searches is the 8,000 images from the box factory.

Other properties searched, provided no further evidence.

If this evidence can be thrown out, this probably includes Das Buch which is no doubt why FF is trying.

I don't expect any evidence to be thrown out of the trial.

It's nothing more than just making some noise.If this is all, the defence is going to present to the court in the end, just trying to pave the way for an appeal to a higher court up on technical matters, it will just turn out as a declaration of bankruptcy.

Just fog bombs....

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

I would like to know how Rebecca V came to the attention of FF.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I don't expect any evidence to be thrown out of the trial.

It's nothing more than just making some noise.If this is all, the defence is going to present to the court in the end, just trying to pave the way for an appeal to a higher court up on technical matters, it will just turn out as a declaration of bankruptcy.

Just fog bombs....

Fair enough.

I will be interested to see what the prosecution’s evidence actually is. Albeit very early stages, I think we can be sure there are no forensics in these cases either - I don’t think the partial palm print will eventuate.

We know that the sole evidence in the two unidentified victim cases is statements from MS and HeB.

It looks like HaB’s statement will be heavily relied upon in the crime against her. FF has already given doubt based on her identification of CB only occurring after June 2020 and the missing cross-shaped scar.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[RichardKimble]

“He claimed the female officer, who he named as ‘Rebecca Vogt’, had been asked to put recording equipment in his cell without a court order”.

EXCLUSIVE: How Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner 'took pleasure in inflicting pain and making victims vomit' - All you need to know from second day of paedophile's multiple sex crimes trial - Olive Press News Spain

By Jon Clarke in Braunschweig HE was a sadistic rapist who took pleasure in inflicting pain and making his victims vomit as he attacked them. That’s

www.theolivepress.es

So, Rebecca Vogt will be testifying for the defense?

Are the prosecution caught between a rock and a hard place with this one, I guess they can only argue it didn't happen , they can't very well admit the investigation wanted to or that it was intended for the MM case only.Just my penneth worth.