Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #2

[johnlair]

Exactly only one carried the tale, nothing in the German press.

Yes you are correct it just stuck out in my mind, I think we are all Wondering what if anything the prosecution team have as to me I can't see how they can just make a couple of ex friends who were criminals themselves stick and carry forward a sentence.
It's a case of their word against his.

 

[RichardKimble]

Yes you are correct it just stuck out in my mind, I think we are all Wondering what if anything the prosecution team have as to me I can't see how they can just make a couple of ex friends who were criminals themselves stick and carry forward a sentence.
It's a case of their word against his.

I'm trying to find it but in his opening statement FF was questioning the hard drives so the red top in question is behind the times.

 

[johnlair]

I'm trying to find it but in his opening statement FF was questioning the hard drives so the red top in question is behind the times.

Ah ok I cannot find that anywhere.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Yes you are correct it just stuck out in my mind, I think we are all Wondering what if anything the prosecution team have as to me I can't see how they can just make a couple of ex friends who were criminals themselves stick and carry forward a sentence.
It's a case of their word against his.

It’s hard to comprehend. Their evidence was used to obtain a conviction in another case and it was confirmed by forensic evidence.

Legally, I don’t know how much weight this carries in the current cases but if there are many similarities across the past case, HaB and these two, then the prosecution must think the have a chance.

 

[johnlair]

It’s hard to comprehend. Their evidence was used to obtain a conviction in another case and it was confirmed by forensic evidence.

Legally, I don’t know how much weight this carries in the current cases but if there are many similarities across the past case, HaB and these two, then the prosecution must think the have a chance.

Surely they cannot just convict on a basis of someone wearing a mask and videoing it. There must be more evidence than just witness statements and in no way would them rape crimes be able to tie him to MM unless there is something we don't know.

No there must be more.

 

[Trivento]

re. sources ..
Can’t see any notes /rules on this thread , or the other MM thread , about non-allowed sources , eg. a certain UK tabloid ..
It’s been mentioned before but doesn’t seem to be specified anymore .. is it now an allowed source perhaps ..?
A lot of the other media releases are just re-issues of Sun articles it seems anyway .
There is a lot of inaccurate / speculative nonsense that appears in The Sun of course , but one could probably argue that is the case with a lot of the other “ approved “ sources ..( I think most of us on here are smart enough to recognise what is and is not trash )
Occasionally there is the odd snippet of info. released by The Sun that would be worth mentioning on here .. imo

 

[Davieson]

It’s hard to comprehend. Their evidence was used to obtain a conviction in another case and it was confirmed by forensic evidence.

Legally, I don’t know how much weight this carries in the current cases but if there are many similarities across the past case, HaB and these two, then the prosecution must think the have a chance.

I wonder if their statements would have held if there hadn't been any forensic evidence ?

 

[johnlair]

I wonder if their statements would have held if there hadn't been any forensic evidence ?

I doubt it and the defence can easily argue they are trying to pin him for the MM murder because they fear his release from prison due to them being witnesses in the case that put him there.

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if their statements would have held if there hadn't been any forensic evidence ?

The Court held that they must have been telling the truth about the video, because of the similarity of MO that they could not otherwise have known. However that was not the main or only evidence against CB in the case.

As we see here, even if their evidence is still broadly accepted, it might not rise to the BARD level to convict against the specific named victims.

e.g is the victim where MS is now confused about the age specifically enough identitfied for a conviction?

I am not sure on those questions - we will see.

 

[RichardKimble]

Ah ok I cannot find that anywhere.

Here you go.

Defender Dr. Friedrich Fülscher (39) demanded in process, that evidence brought up by the prosecutor against Brückner must not be used. Specifically, it is about two Word files that were found on a USB stick of the accuded.

In the texts with the file names „ Mother-daughter story “ and „ Zofengeschichte “, the accused fantasizes about the kidnapping of children and rape. According to Fülscher, this evidence was secured during a „ fingered search measure “ on Brückner's property in Saxony-Anhalt – and was therefore worthless.

Braunschweig: Im Prozess gegen Maddie-Verdächtigen geht's auch um Inga

Im Prozess in Braunschweig gegen Christian Brückner beantragte dessen Anwalt, Beweise nicht zu verwenden – da sie illegal beschafft worden sein sollen.

www.bild.de

 

[johnlair]

Here you go.

Defender Dr. Friedrich Fülscher (39) demanded in process, that evidence brought up by the prosecutor against Brückner must not be used. Specifically, it is about two Word files that were found on a USB stick of the accuded.

In the texts with the file names „ Mother-daughter story “ and „ Zofengeschichte “, the accused fantasizes about the kidnapping of children and rape. According to Fülscher, this evidence was secured during a „ fingered search measure “ on Brückner's property in Saxony-Anhalt – and was therefore worthless.

Braunschweig: Im Prozess gegen Maddie-Verdächtigen geht's auch um Inga

Im Prozess in Braunschweig gegen Christian Brückner beantragte dessen Anwalt, Beweise nicht zu verwenden – da sie illegal beschafft worden sein sollen.

www.bild.de

That says USB stick not a hard drive but thanks.

 

[johnlair]

"The officers are said to have found, among other things, a Lidl bag with a case. Inside: six USB sticks and two SD cards with texts, videos and child photos."

So multiples

He's obviously scared if he's trying to persuade the court that they should not look at this information because the police did not obtain a warrant, that seems stupid, the neighbor apparently alerted them and like any good officer the woman went and did her job and found the bag..
But I guess he's just doing his Lawyers job..

I'd say they are very relevant to the case personally

 

[RichardKimble]

"The officers are said to have found, among other things, a Lidl bag with a case. Inside: six USB sticks and two SD cards with texts, videos and child *advertiser censored* photos."

So multiples

He's obviously scared if he's trying to persuade the court that they should not look at this information because the police did not obtain a warrant, that seems stupid, the neighbor apparently alerted them and like any good officer the woman went and did her job and found the bag..
But I guess he's just doing his Lawyers job..

I'd say they are very relevant to the case personally.

I'd say FF is far from scared, his job is to defend his client, if that involves having or trying to get evidence thrown out then so be it, I'd also say FF couldnt care less about CB, it could be be the scarlet pimpernel in the dock for all he cares, defending the client is his concern.

 

[johnlair]

I'd say FF is far from scared, his job is to defend his client, if that involves having or trying to get evidence thrown out then so be it, I'd also say FF couldnt care less about CB, it could be be the scarlet pimpernel in the dock for all he cares, defending the client is his concern.

It's a very high profile case, reputation means everything to lawyers if he loses his reputation goes down so there has to be an element of fear there.

 

[RichardKimble]

It's a very high profile case, reputation means everything to lawyers if he loses his reputation goes down so there has to be an element of fear there.

Watch "The Push" :Murder on a cliff.,on CH4 ,the defence lawyer isn't crest fallen.

 

[Anxala]

As we see here, even if their evidence is still broadly accepted, it might not rise to the BARD level to convict against the specific named victims.

e.g is the victim where MS is now confused about the age specifically enough identitfied for a conviction?

Does the age issue not concern the case which didn't make the charge sheet? The 'Italian woman in her 40s'? The one he's now saying was in her 60s? I mean, obviously, it's contradictory, and I can see why it's being questioned, but if he's more or less accurate on the young girl and the elderly woman recollection, I can't see why the discrepancy in his recall would matter too much here. Or were there further discrepancies in his recall of the actual two cases which the trial is currently focused on?

Here you go.

Defender Dr. Friedrich Fülscher (39) demanded in process, that evidence brought up by the prosecutor against Brückner must not be used. Specifically, it is about two Word files that were found on a USB stick of the accuded.

In the texts with the file names „ Mother-daughter story “ and „ Zofengeschichte “, the accused fantasizes about the kidnapping of children and rape. According to Fülscher, this evidence was secured during a „ fingered search measure “ on Brückner's property in Saxony-Anhalt – and was therefore worthless.

Braunschweig: Im Prozess gegen Maddie-Verdächtigen geht's auch um Inga

Im Prozess in Braunschweig gegen Christian Brückner beantragte dessen Anwalt, Beweise nicht zu verwenden – da sie illegal beschafft worden sein sollen.

www.bild.de

So these word docs are presumably the 'Buchs'?

 

[RichardKimble]

So these word docs are presumably the 'Buchs'?

Seems like it.

 

[Anxala]

It's a very high profile case, reputation means everything to lawyers if he loses his reputation goes down so there has to be an element of fear there.

On the contrary, the reps of the prosecution team are the ones at stake here. They're the ones who've spent the best part of the last 4 years claiming publicly and wildly irresponsibly that CB abducted and murdered MM. This trial outcome is crucial for them in terms of those claims being seen as credible. They and their case against CB is at the mercy of the judge, a judge BTW that, to date, seems less than impressed with the calibre of the prosecution's witnesses.

FF and his team are just doing their professional defence job.

 

[RichardKimble]

Request for funding, just put it on the other thread.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Does the age issue not concern the case which didn't make the charge sheet? The 'Italian woman in her 40s'? The one he's now saying was in her 60s? I mean, obviously, it's contradictory, and I can see why it's being questioned, but if he's more or less accurate on the young girl and the elderly woman recollection, I can't see why the discrepancy in his recall would matter too much here. Or were there further discrepancies in his recall of the actual two cases which the trial is currently focused on?



So these word docs are presumably the 'Buchs'?

Yes, I think you’re right.

I am not sure MS is even a witness in the 70-80 year-old English woman.