GUILTY IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Deleted member 117884]

unlike TV shows thousands of crimes occur every day where the perpetrator leaves not a speck of DNA. MOO

I think an obvious source of DNA was "interrupted."

And perhaps he was wearing gloves during the ordeal.

jmo

 

[Kudzuu]

I can absolutely agree I wish there had been RA's DNA found at the crime scene. Would make this case much much easier to prosecute.

This scares me. No family should have to go through this. I have to trust they have the evidence and all this grandstanding by the D is just that.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'll take your word for it. I don't watch crime tv shows FWIW. I think I really really wanted DNA to be certain this is the guy . Who keeps stuff related to a crime scene like clothes he wore etc.

So, so many people. They keep the clothes, they keep the shoes, they keep the weapon. They shop at Walmart, they use their loyalty card and pay with their credit card. They drive toll roads. They google how to do murder better. They let their location services show every move they make, or they turn off the phone for the precise window of the crime.

Criminals do the most boneheaded things every day.

MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

This does not mention when the bullet was found at all.

I would like to know when that bullet was found as well, also, why those sticks or branches were collected weeks later if that is indeed the case.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[MassGuy]

Of course not - if they had DNA they wouldn't be focussing on a discharged bullet.

IMO, very few killers leave DNA anymore, if they can possibly help it.

JMO

He apparently didn’t cut himself, and he had the benefit of an outdoor environment that isn’t conducive to DNA preservation.

Had he not admitted he was there that day, dressed in the same type of clothing as BG, it’s probable no arrest would have ever been made.

 

[ClearAhead]

Of course not - if they had DNA they wouldn't be focussing on a discharged bullet.

IMO, very few killers leave DNA anymore, if they can possibly help it.

JMO

It wouldn’t surprise me if the investigator responsible for crime scene photographs was asked by the D if DNA was present, but again how would he possibly know?

 

[MiniMoo]

it has since been clarified that the "black marks" were simply added to the photos to cover (redact/censor) the private parts of the nude minor victim

Thanks for the clarification, also, that was a good call on their part.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I can absolutely agree I wish there had been RA's DNA found at the crime scene. Would make this case much much easier to prosecute.

If anyone knows:

Is it possible that in the mix of Abby and Libby's blood an unknown DNA was found " mixed in?'

If so, could that mixture be degraded to only be able to identify that DNA partially?

Could it be that even though there is no absolute match, but the available markers DON'T rule Richard Allen out?

I hope someone knows.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yet another conspiracy debunked.

Not really. The D said in the FM they had pics of it in the ground but none of it being removed. From the article you quoted, this was the problematic part (No chain of custody):
"Investigators did not take any pictures or video of the bullet in the ground or of it being removed."

 

[justtrish]

while the tweet doesn't say WHEN after moving the bodies, it seems to me more likely than not upon moving the bodies this bullet was found beneath one. I do not believe it would be described as being "beneath" a body if it was in fact found days or weeks after the bodies had since been removed. JMO MOO

We know from Cicero's testimony at the 3 day hearing that Libby's body was moved some distance because she was drug through her own blood pooling.. so I think it's very possible when he was trying to drag her he would be pulling her toward where he was standing and if he's leaning forward he could easily drop that bullet and pull her body right over top of it without realizing it. IMO

 

[Cedars]

Dumb question but I don't understand how there couldn't be DNA.

This would be a question for a forensic psychologist. However, in his 2019 press conference, Spt Carter said "We know that this is about power to you".

One could assume that means using the gun to force them 'down the hill", to force them, using the gun to, probably, undress, force them, using the gun, to do other things very violating to young girls...then use the knife (and not drop the knife sheath as allegedly Kohlberger did, which, I believe, was the only source of his DNA at that crime scene).

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

We still haven't seen a transcript of a single one of those 60 "confessions" have we?

That's because the state hasn't gotten to the apprehension of RA in their timeline. I doubt the confessions will come out until the state gets to the time after RA was arrested and in prison. That is when the confessions were made. Unless there was one prior that we don't know about yet.

 

[justtrish]

If anyone knows:

Is it possible that in the mix of Abby and Libby's blood an unknown DNA was found " mixed in?'

If so, could that mixture be degraded to only be able to identify that DNA partially?

Could it be that even though there is no absolute match, but the available markers DON'T rule Richard Allen out?

I hope someone knows.

All I've heard about the girls blood was during the 3 day hearing. Cicero testified that the pools of blood near and around Libby were hers and the blood on the tree was hers. Abby's blood was only found pooled under her and right near her body. So if they have some other items with blood on them or something else it wasn't mentioned in that hearing. He was there to describe the blood on the tree, what he thought happened based on where the blood was. He said they were killed at that location and Libby was moved and drug through her own blood that was pooling and then all that blood on the tree was hers and put there by her (not painted on the tree by someone else for example).

Now I'd say that the killer likely got both of their blood on him so if they ever found anything to test of his it might include both of their blood and for sure Libby's. We know they took swabs of RAs car on the seat belt, the carpet and an area under the spare tire.. maybe their blood was found then? That would still make the statement that his DNA wasn't at the crime scene accurate.. they could very well have found the girls DNA on something of his. IMO

 

[iamshadow21]

This would be a question for a forensic psychologist. However, in his 2019 press conference, Spt Carter said "We know that this is about power to you".

One could assume that means using the gun to force them 'down the hill", to force them, using the gun to, probably, undress, force them, using the gun, to do other things very violating to young girls...then use the knife (and not drop the knife sheath as allegedly Kohlberger did, which was the only source of his DNA at that crime scene).

JMO

If it was a box cutter, there probably wasn't a sheath to drop. He did drop that bullet, though.

In my opinion, exactly the same kind of heat of the moment oversight. Both were frenzied knife attacks, chaotic, brutal scenes, multiple victims to subdue and control, a lot of adrenaline, and, as far as we know, both first time offenders.

MOO

 

[BUF]

What a long hard day this has been for the families, jurors, those testifying, and those in the courtroom.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The bullet was point down and depressed into the ground.

Max described it as a contentious cross examination.

That seems a little odd, almost deliberate. IMO

 

[MiniMoo]

Not really. The D said in the FM they had pics of it in the ground but none of it being removed. From the article you quoted, this was the problematic part (No chain of custody):
"Investigators did not take any pictures or video of the bullet in the ground or of it being removed."

But they do have proof it came from the crime scene, right? There has to be something even if there are no photos.

Does anyone know if there is anything about it definitely being found there even if there are no photos of it being in the ground or removed?

I would think photos of it being recovered would not only provide a timestamp, but also that it was in the ground in comparison to on the ground. Total clarity.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[imstilla.grandma]

McLeland told jurors that in addition to the bullet evidence, they would also hear incriminating statements Allen made to correctional officers, inmates, law enforcement, and even his wife.

"They had details that only the killer would know," the prosecutor said. "Richard Allen is the man on the bridge."

Allen shook his head at times while McLeland spoke, and his wife, seated in the gallery, did the same when the prosecutor said her husband had confessed to her.

Delphi murder trial: Gruesome new details revealed in court

The courtroom was filled with gasps as prosecutors showed crime scene photos, revealing the horror of what happened to Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.fox32chicago.com

 

[wastelands_]

In the beginning of the investigation it was claimed by investigators that there were numerous ritualistic “signs” that the killer or killers had purposely left at the crime scene. (They weren’t called signs though, it was another term, that I can’t recall) Deliberate posing of the bodies, usual placement of sticks, etc. IMO

I believe the word used was “signatures” by, and again *i believe* it was Holeman?

Of course, jmt. I do remember a lot of the word “signature” being thrown around right from the get go. Something along the lines of 4-5 signatures left at the scene? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Deleted member 117884]

That seems a little odd, almost deliberate. IMO

To me, it sounds like it was inadvertently stepped on hard, like during the exertion of dragging a dead body and branches.

jmo