MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Spyralflare]

The drawing was such a cry for help and it was disregarded. It’s like a little part of Ethan’s mind was still fighting and didn’t want this to happen. The teacher tried to help. The school tried to help. The parents completely failed their son by refusing to take him home. You can get into a nature vs. nurture argument here, but honestly, it seems like there would have been a chance for this kid to get help if the parents didn’t just let this slide.

However, if I were that school principal, I would have suspended him for the day and sent him home for his own safety.
Hindsight being 20/20, of course.

How many other kids out there are on the verge of cracking right now and no one is paying attention?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The parents claim they were not fleeing.

Turned-off phones and a $4000 cash withdrawal say otherwise.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They didn't give him a gun. They purchased a gift for Christmas, and it sounds like his mother intended to supervise him using the gun.

If the shooters mother intended to control or supervise his use of the gun she failed. JMO.

 

[Snoopster]

They didn't give him a gun. They purchased a gift for Christmas, and it sounds like his mother intended to supervise him using the gun.

Where did it sound like his mother 'intended to supervise him'? Yes, they went to the practice range to bond together over the gun. But that doesn't imply that she planned to supervise him in the future. Maybe I missed something?

 

[Estelle]

The drawing was such a cry for help and it was disregarded. It’s like a little part of Ethan’s mind was still fighting and didn’t want this to happen. The teacher tried to help. The school tried to help. The parents completely failed their son by refusing to take him home. You can get into a nature vs. nurture argument here, but honestly, it seems like there would have been a chance for this kid to get help if the parents didn’t just let this slide.

However, if I were that school principal, I would have suspended him for the day and sent him home for his own safety.
Hindsight being 20/20, of course.

How many other kids out there are on the verge of cracking right now and no one is paying attention?

Yes it appears that the parents went straight back to work. However, at 15yo, surely their son could have been taken to one of their offices or taken home. But maybe they didn't trust him at home alone or in their offices and one of the parents was not prepared to stay at home with him. IMO

 

[everybodhi]

They didn't give him a gun. They purchased a gift for Christmas, and it sounds like his mother intended to supervise him using the gun.

It is illegal to give a 15 year old child a 9 millimeter, no matter the intention.

 

[CrimeAway]

Their school counselors are probably not trained to identify psychopathy but they should be.

Hare Psychopathy Checklist (Original) (PCL-22)

Psychopath vs. sociopath: How do they differ?

The Differences Between Psychopaths and Sociopaths

 

[Estelle]

It is illegal to give a 15 year old child a 9 millimeter, no matter the intention.

The parents can't say it was their gun now in their defence as it was to be gifted to him for Christmas.

 

[InstantProof]

School shooting suspect told counselors alarming drawings were for video game, superintendent says

... "When the parents were asked to take their son home for the day, they flatly refused and left without their son, apparently to return to work," Throne said. ...

This, plus their fugitive flight to Detroit, leaving their son on his own - almost sounds like they didn't / don't even want him. They specifically purchased and gifted him a gun ... were they hoping he would harm himself and/or others and they'd be rid of him? Really gotta wonder. JMO

He can be someone else's problem is the parental vibe I am getting, which is why I'm glad the law has stepped in to make it their problem.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Haven't seen anything on this - did the parents have weapons on them (or in their vehicle) when they were arrested?

 

[everybodhi]

The parents can't say it was their gun now in their defence as it was to be gifted to him for Christmas.

They didn’t “learn how to not get caught”.

 

[bestill]

Haven't seen anything on this - did the parents have weapons on them (or in their vehicle) when they were arrested?

They weren't armed, my recall from the presser this afternoon.

 

[everybodhi]

Haven't seen anything on this - did the parents have weapons on them (or in their vehicle) when they were arrested?

No they did not.
I believe all their weapons were confiscated during the search warrant.

 

[otto]

It is illegal to give a 15 year old child a 9 millimeter, no matter the intention.

What is the evidence that someone gave control of the gun to the child?

I understand that parents buy guns for their children, but the gun licence is in the parent's name. The child uses the gun under supervision to practice handling and aim. Isn't that how it works?

Isn't that what happened here? One of the parents bought the gun as a gift for the son, but the son did not have permission to put the gun in his back pocket or take the gun out of the home. He practiced with his mother.

It has to be proven that the gun was unlawfully stored. How was the gun stored?

"While Michigan has criminal laws in place that could be applied if a parent were to negligently allow their child to access their firearm, there is no law specifically mandating they lock their guns away and separate the weapons from the ammunition.

According to Michigan state police: “You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored. As such, a trigger lock, gun case or other device designed to prevent unauthorized access to a firearm is strongly recommended.”
​

Stricter gun laws? The question looms over Michigan politics in wake of deadly school shooting

 

[otto]

The parents can't say it was their gun now in their defence as it was to be gifted to him for Christmas.

How do so many children know how to handle guns by the time they are adults if they are not practicing before they can legally walk around with a gun? Couldn't it be a gift for him to use to learn how to shoot, and in his control when legal?

 

[everybodhi]

What is the evidence that someone gave control of the gun to the child?

I understand that parents buy guns for their children, but the gun licence is in the parent's name. The child uses the gun under supervision to practice handling and aim. Isn't that how it works?

Isn't that what happened here? One of the parents bought the gun as a gift for the son, but the son did not have permission to put the gun in his back pocket or take the gun out of the home. He practiced with his mother.

It has to be proven that the gun was unlawfully stored. How was the gun stored?

"While Michigan has criminal laws in place that could be applied if a parent were to negligently allow their child to access their firearm, there is no law specifically mandating they lock their guns away and separate the weapons from the ammunition.

According to Michigan state police: “You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored. As such, a trigger lock, gun case or other device designed to prevent unauthorized access to a firearm is strongly recommended.”
​

Stricter gun laws? The question looms over Michigan politics in wake of deadly school shooting

Is it not obvious from the dead and injured classmates and a teacher that the gun was not properly secured from the boy?

 

[katydid23]

New details released on deadly Oxford HS shooting | wzzm13.com

"Throne said Crumbley was immediately removed from the classroom and brought to the counselor's office again. He told school authorities that the drawing was part of a video game he was designing and that he planned to pursue video game design as a career.

His parents were called in to school. Throne said it was difficult to reach them. They waited an hour and a half with Crumbley, analyzing and observing his behavior.

Crumbley said he was worried about missing assignments while waiting. Staff retrieved his science homework, which he worked on in the office.

Throne said school officials believed Crumbley did not pose any threat to others and that his demeanor "appeared calm."

When both of his parents arrived, counselors asked Crumbley questions surrounding the potential to harm himself or others. Counselors concluded he did not pose a threat.

Throne says his parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, did not inform the school that their son had access to a firearm or that he had one with him.

The school told the Crumbleys they had 48 hours to seek counseling for their son or the school would contact Child Protective Services."

Didn't the school search him and his backpack? My kids high school would search for weapons in cases like that, ---if someone was being aggressive or made threats in writing or on social media---IMMEDIATELY SEARCHED and their LOCKER SEARCHED and their vehicle as well.

Did he have the weapon in his possession that day and he was able to walk away and use it?

 

[katydid23]

That's my understanding as well. The parents and the school did not consider the possibility that the child had taken a gun to school and intended to shoot children, therefore they did not ask the important questions.

He should not have had free access to it in the 1st place. It should have been locked away and only used with supervision, as he was too young and hot headed and emotional.

 

[Arkay]

What is the evidence that someone gave control of the gun to the child?

Um….he freely took it to his school and slaughtered his schoolmates?

 

[borndem]

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