NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[kittythehare]

@JennieM thank you for the article.

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness's guess/estimate.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max (some thought up to an hour)...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember, 2 minutes and 43 and seconds. In the actual situation that day, it was a lifetime. I had a gun to my head to boot and felt it against my forehead for years, also not unusual.

Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all. Time stands still.

The video is just the last 4 minutes of the attack..
But as Penny had been trained in blood choke technique, he should have immobilised Neely within approximately 8 seconds, had he applied the technique correctly.
To that end, it makes little difference whether it lasted for 15 minutes, which I doubt, or 5.
DA will have a fair idea by now though because he charged him.

 

[JennieM]

Eyewitness who is an unnamed source. Most riders had departed the car before LE arrived. This eyewitness had to have been there throughout. Neely got on just one stop before, IIRC. 3 minute ride? I think someone here said that.

Car stops, chokehold went on for 12-14 more minutes,according to this eyewitness. Vazquez says the hold began just 3 seconds before the stop. Both witnesses are estimating, obviously.

That’s assuming Penny tackled him immediately after the doors closed, which sounds off.

IMO. Please correct this version with later info, if you have some.

The eyewitness is Vasquez. I followed this up in #111.

 

[Jade]

I'm picturing him testifying in court under cross-examination -

". . . I didn't see, but I think . . .

" . . . And then in like 30 seconds, I don't know . . ."

And then he gives an opinion as if he knows how a survey of 100 people will respond (which sounds like he has been listening to social media and formed an opinion between the time of the incident and the time of this interview) "You ask how many people out of 100 would have dared to do something like that, and I think 98 will say . . .

Mostly, I think he will be a good witness for the defense regarding what he witnessed, not what he didn't witness, and not what his opinion is.

A witness during testimony only tells what they saw or heard not their opinions.

• A lay witness — the most common type — is a person who watched certain events and describes what they saw.

Discovery

The only witness that is allowed an opinion is a “skilled witness”

Why be publicly judgmental of a civilian witness and mocking his interview especially when he has said how devastating the event was and how it had affected his life?

The witness is not charged with a crime.

All imo

 

[kittythehare]

A witness during testimony only tells what they saw or heard not their opinions.

• A lay witness — the most common type — is a person who watched certain events and describes what they saw.

Discovery

The only witness that is allowed an opinion is a “skilled witness”

Why be publicly judgmental of a civilian witness and mocking his interview especially when he has said how devastating the event was and how it had affected his life?

The witness is not charged with a crime.

All imo

Also, English is not his first language.

 

[elevatorific]

I’m sure you’re right that Penny will speak at a convention if he is acquitted, which I figure he will be, the way things are going. As Bob Dylan sang in “Subterranean Homesick Blues”…”You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” Vigilante wannabe (IMO) Kyle Rittenhouse has been a very popular convention speaker, so Penny will be in demand too, if the wind doesn’t change direction.

JMO

Kyle Rittenhouse Gets Standing Ovation at Conservative Conference

A month after his acquittal on murder charges, Kyle Rittenhouse was given a standing ovation at a conservative group’s conference in Phoenix where panelists discussed the 2020 deadly shootings in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

www.nbcchicago.com

Montgomery County-owned venue will host Kyle Rittenhouse rally against censorship

The venue change comes days after a Conroe-based brewery faced threats and harassment for pulling out of the event.

www.texastribune.org

No matter how telegenic a suspect is, as long as the facts of the case warrant a charge, it would be a slippery slope to not charge someone just because a morally bankrupt jury might acquit him. JMO.

 

[Jade]

As @10ofRods pointed out in the last thread the presentation of the large tattoo on DP's chest is interesting.

Since Penny says he enjoys swimming and surfing he has more opportunity to show off his chest than the average non water sports guy.

Some tattoos are representations that have an explanation of the motivation and significance.

Then there are the easily recognizable tattoos that communicate without explanation based on the general knowledge of the viewer of the subject.


Samson is one of the most recognizable of the judges who ruled over Israel before the time of the kings.

Known for violent acts and a bent for revenge, Samson also ends up committing a number of other atrocities. He ties the tails of 300 foxes together, fastens ablaze torches to them, and sets them loose in Philistine fields (Judges 15:4-5).

Later, he kills a thousand men with a donkey’s jawbone (Judges 15:16)

Who Was Samson?

The book of Judges says of the days of Samson and the other judges: “In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (17:6). Later, the book concludes with the sad statement repeated: “In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (21:25). What Moses had urged years earlier had been disregarded: “You shall not do according to all that we are doing here today, everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes” (Deut. 12:8).

The Unexpected Lessons of Samson


So Sampson was a Judge before the Kings in the times when “everyone did what was right in their eyes” The accused relates he does what he thinks is right:

But when asked if he would take action again if he were in a similar situation, Penny nodded.

“You know, I live an authentic and genuine life,” Penny said. “And I would — if there was a threat and danger in the present …”

Does he feel he did anything to be ashamed of?

“I don’t, I mean, I always do what I think is right.”

Daniel Penny, charged in Jordan Neely death, breaks silence: ‘I am not a white supremacist’



Penny thinks, like Sampson, he can be judge, jury and executioner because he thinks he’s right.



All imo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

LOWER MANHATTAN (WABC) -- Nassau County officials are holding a rally in support of Daniel Penny, the marine charged with manslaughter in the subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely.

Nassau County Executive Bruce Blakeman was joined by veterans, first responders, and other elected officials at the rally in support of Penny in Manhattan on Wednesday.

Some counter-protesters arrested after support rally for Daniel Penny

After Blakeman spoke for about 20 minutes, the rally broke up and a couple skirmishes broke out.

abc7ny.com

 

[wary]

No matter how telegenic a suspect is, as long as the facts of the case warrant a charge, it would be a slippery slope to not charge someone just because a morally bankrupt jury might acquit him. JMO.

Or there might be a reason besides moral bankruptcy for acquittal, like seeing all the evidence and hearing the witnesses testify under oath?

 

[MyBelle]

Agree, but I don’t think it will even come to this. This will have to settle before trial for a minor charge. The prosecution is set up to get just demolished here. The DA has to charge, it’s political theater in MOO.

Didn't DA Bragg say he was taking it to a grand jury? It's been over 3 weeks and so far, no indictment. A grand jury is a way to remove it from political theater and put it squarely where it belongs: in a grand jury's hands.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Penny thinks, like Sampson, he can be judge, jury and executioner because he thinks he’s right.

<RSBM>

If you're looking for ways to demonize Daniel Penny regarding his Samson tattoo & use Christian Scripture to justify it, you're going to find exactly what you're looking for. It's pretty easy to take it out of context, actually. If you've ever studied Biblical theology, especially OT (Old Testament) theology, it's even easier.

You could really go a couple of different ways with this. One, like you did, and the other, which conjures up considerations of humility in the face of chaos and trusting in God even when things look or feel impossible, the way Samson trusted God to give him the strength and the ability to defend Israel against it's enemies.

On the other hand, if you don't know Penny, his life, his views on the Scriptures, or what that art from Charles Brock (the depiction of Samuel killing the lion with his bare hands) actually means to him, it's all 100% speculation and most probably inaccurate.

Truth is, Penny might not even be a Christian (I don't know if it's been mentioned at all), and he may know absolutely nothing about who Samson was and what his role was in fighting off the Philistines to defend Israel. He might have just seen the image (maybe some other guy in the service had one) and thought it looked pretty cool, and got the tattoo.

Unless DP himself comes along and tells us, we're never going to know.

jmo

 

[Laughing]

As @10ofRods pointed out in the last thread the presentation of the large tattoo on DP's chest is interesting.

Since Penny says he enjoys swimming and surfing he has more opportunity to show off his chest than the average non water sports guy.

Some tattoos are representations that have an explanation of the motivation and significance.

Then there are the easily recognizable tattoos that communicate without explanation based on the general knowledge of the viewer of the subject.


Samson is one of the most recognizable of the judges who ruled over Israel before the time of the kings.

Known for violent acts and a bent for revenge, Samson also ends up committing a number of other atrocities. He ties the tails of 300 foxes together, fastens ablaze torches to them, and sets them loose in Philistine fields (Judges 15:4-5).

Later, he kills a thousand men with a donkey’s jawbone (Judges 15:16)

Who Was Samson?

The book of Judges says of the days of Samson and the other judges: “In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (17:6). Later, the book concludes with the sad statement repeated: “In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (21:25). What Moses had urged years earlier had been disregarded: “You shall not do according to all that we are doing here today, everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes” (Deut. 12:8).

The Unexpected Lessons of Samson


So Sampson was a Judge before the Kings in the times when “everyone did what was right in their eyes” The accused relates he does what he thinks is right:

But when asked if he would take action again if he were in a similar situation, Penny nodded.

“You know, I live an authentic and genuine life,” Penny said. “And I would — if there was a threat and danger in the present …”

Does he feel he did anything to be ashamed of?

“I don’t, I mean, I always do what I think is right.”

Daniel Penny, charged in Jordan Neely death, breaks silence: ‘I am not a white supremacist’



Penny thinks, like Sampson, he can be judge, jury and executioner because he thinks he’s right.



All imo

Link, please?

Do we know why DP selected this image for a tattoo?

Do we know this is NOT Hercules wrestling with a lion?

Do we know that the lion is not a part of the tradition of DP's Marine Corp unit, or a symbol of a specific campaign?

I know a combat veteran who proudly wears a Black Lion tattoo as a Black Lion:

Military Graphics

U.S. Army Center of Military History - Lineage and Honors Information

 

[elevatorific]

Or there might be some other reason for acquittal, like seeing all the evidence, hearing the witnesses testify under oath, that sort of thing?

Of course. But we haven't seen any of that as of now. So to assume that he will be acquitted based only on what we know is to assume a morally bankrupt jury that is judging as marine=good homeless=bad.
imo

 

[Laughing]

No matter how telegenic a suspect is, as long as the facts of the case warrant a charge, it would be a slippery slope to not charge someone just because a morally bankrupt jury might acquit him. JMO.

Quite an indictment of the citizens of New York, imho.

jmho

 

[Sundog]

Quite an indictment of the citizens of New York, imho.

jmho

And our jury system, when we don't agree with the outcome of their verdicts.

 

[elevatorific]

Quite an indictment of the citizens of New York, imho.

jmho

I'm not the one assuming that. Those assuming an acquittal at this point are.

 

[MyBelle]

Or there might be a reason besides moral bankruptcy for acquittal, like seeing all the evidence and hearing the witnesses testify under oath?

Exactly. I still have faith in our jury system.

JMO

 

[elevatorific]

dbm

 

[wary]

Of course. But we haven't seen any of that as of now. So to assume that he will be acquitted based only on what we know is to assume a morally bankrupt jury that is judging as marine=good homeless=bad.
imo

I don’t think anyone is thinking that ‘homeless = bad.’ Maybe ‘violent attacker of elderly people = bad.’

 

[shotgun09]

LOWER MANHATTAN (WABC) -- Nassau County officials are holding a rally in support of Daniel Penny, the marine charged with manslaughter in the subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely.

Nassau County Executive Bruce Blakeman was joined by veterans, first responders, and other elected officials at the rally in support of Penny in Manhattan on Wednesday.

Some counter-protesters arrested after support rally for Daniel Penny

After Blakeman spoke for about 20 minutes, the rally broke up and a couple skirmishes broke out.

abc7ny.com

From your link:

"Blakeman was flanked by a crowd of flag waving veterans and first responders in support of Penny, according to his press release.

He was forced to yell over a vocal, albeit smaller, group of counter-demonstrators carrying signs reading "Justice for Jordan Neely" and yelling for Blakeman to "go back to Long Island."

After Blakeman spoke for about 20 minutes, the rally broke up and a couple skirmishes broke out.

A couple of the Neely supporters were detained by the large number of police and court officers standing by outside of 100 Centre Street, where Penny case will be prosecuted."

 

[Laughing]

I'm not the one assuming that. Those assuming an acquittal at this point are.

beg to differ....