NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[HmmMysterious]

Okay allow me to re-phrase.

If you were sitting there and JN started screaming about how he doesn't care if he goes to jail, that he'd take a bullet, and he'd kill all the MF'ers... and was looking right at you, or the person sitting next to you, as he yelled those things, then threw his jacket to the floor, (or vice versa) would you consider that violent even if he never physically touched anyone?

You forgot to add that JN also shouted that he was hungry and thirsty. JN was having a mental crisis when he was saying those things btw. Those threats may had been irrational ramblings imo


And all that still didn't warrant a fatal choke-hold being applied to Neely

 

[MyBelle]

At the end of the day, only Mr. Penny knows what was going through his head. Personally, I would cross out the targeting element itself or the race. In my heart of hearts, I wonder if misplaced fear to end up in such a situation could have contributed. Remember how many rent places, or are straddled with high mortgages. But this is just JMO. My question is not why Mr. Penny intervened, but why he applied the chokehold for so long. Give or take, he either was poorly trained, or could not even understand what was happening as the result of his hold; nor was he responding to the advices of the people next to him.

BBM. It is unknown how long the chokehold was applied nor how much pressure was applied. I highly doubt there was zero communication exchanged between Penny and the others who were also restraining JN but were not charged. They were focused on JN, not on the bystanders who didn't bother to call 911.

I think it is laughable that anyone claimed they gave "advice" yet they did absolutely nothing to intervene to help JN with the exception of the guy who walked by and <modsnip - nobody did that>

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

You forgot to add that JN also shouted that he was hungry and thirsty. JN was having a mental crisis when he was saying those things btw. Those threats may had been irrational ramblings imo


And all that still didn't warrant a fatal choke-hold being applied to Neely

I didn't forget, I left those out on purpose because yelling that you're hungry or thirsty isn't something that would normally make people stand up and move away from you, or would generally be considered "violent behavior" which was my point.
It's other stuff he did and said, that caused that.

But since none of us were actually there, how can we possibly know he was having any sort of mental health crisis?
Maybe he was just mad? Maybe he was actually hungry, thirsty, ticked off and feeling like screaming at people and throwing garbage and making threats.

Truth is, we cannot possibly know for sure this was any sort of mental heath crisis or just an angry episode.

It's bizarre it keeps coming back to this, because literally no one on this thread has ever said any of that warranted a fatal chokehold. Nor was a fatal chokehold the intent (hence the lack of murder charges), but to restrain him from making good on any of what he was threatening.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

I find the concept of misplaced fear to be utterly fascinating.

I confess, I'm totally lost on the concept of misplaced fear as it pertains to this case.
Misplaced how? By whom?

 

[mickey2942]

It sounds like Neely is getting a lot of support. His defense fund keeps growing daily.

 

[MissMalowe]

You mean Daniel Penny's defense fund?
It's at 2.8 million I think.

 

[Ontario Mom]

You mean Daniel Penny's defense fund?
It's at 2.8 million I think.

The more the better.
Solid legal defense, pay out for anyone suing, sadly, and anything left to mental health advocacy programs.
It's a win all the way around, more or less.

jmo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You mean Daniel Penny's defense fund?
It's at 2.8 million I think.

Maybe he won’t need it and it can go to taking care of the homeless.

 

[Sundog]

The more the better.
Solid legal defense, pay out for anyone suing, sadly, and anything left to mental health advocacy programs.
It's a win all the way around, more or less.

jmo

Lots of donors just giving $5 or $10, or what they can. It's heartwarming to see this and read their messages of support.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Maybe he won’t need it and it can go to taking care of the homeless.

Except that won't happen since Neely's family apparently intends to sue Penny.
I have not yet seen an amount listed but whatever it is, that money will go to them.

 

[MissMalowe]

Except that won't happen since Neely's family apparently intends to sue Penny.
I have not yet seen an amount listed but whatever it is, that money will go to them.

I guess maybe that's something to consider..... the more that's asked for, the less there is to be donated to the mental health advocacy programs.

Has the family mentioned any organizations they may plan to donate to in memory of Neely?

 

[Ontario Mom]

I guess maybe that's something to consider..... the more that's asked for, the less there is to be donated to the mental health advocacy programs.

Has the family mentioned any organizations they may plan to donate to in memory of Neely?

So far all I've seen in MSM is that they plan to pursue a claim for personal injuries and wrongful death.
No mention of donating anything to any groups.

 

[MyBelle]

Except that won't happen since Neely's family apparently intends to sue Penny.
I have not yet seen an amount listed but whatever it is, that money will go to them.

That will happen a ways down the road, if it happens at all. Here we are nearly a month later and Penny has yet to be indicted.

JMO

 

[darring21]

Except that won't happen since Neely's family apparently intends to sue Penny.
I have not yet seen an amount listed but whatever it is, that money will go to them.

The site says the money will be received by the attorneys and used for legal fees for criminal charges and possible civil lawsuits. Remaining money will be donated to mental health advocacy. If the money is never Penny's asset, would it be available to someone who sued him? I'm thinking maybe not.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The site says the money will be received by the attorneys and used for legal fees for criminal charges and possible civil lawsuits. Remaining money will be donated to mental health advocacy. If the money is never Penny's asset, would it be available to someone who sued him? I'm thinking maybe not.

Good point. I'm not exactly sure how that works.
Fundraised money is for both his legal defense and to be put toward any civil suits, so I read that to mean if he were sued for 2 million (just using that as an example), that money will come from the funds raised. But, I could be completely wrong about that.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Good point. I'm not exactly sure how that works.
Fundraised money is for both his legal defense and to be put toward any civil suits, so I read that to mean if he were sued for 2 million (just using that as an example), that money will come from the funds raised. But, I could be completely wrong about that.

I read it that way too, but thinking about it, lawyers are expensive so fees incurred in a civil suit would make sense.

Is there ever any guarantee of a monetary award in a civil suit? (I realise it's most likely), so if the family sue and the verdict is wrongful death, the jury could choose to award $1 if they saw fit?.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I read it that way too, but thinking about it, lawyers are expensive so fees incurred in a civil suit would make sense.

Is there ever any guarantee of a monetary award in a civil suit? (I realise it's most likely), so if the family sue and the verdict is wrongful death, the jury could choose to award $1 if they saw fit?.

I don't know if a civil suit is decided by a jury or a judge. I've never followed one so I'm pretty much clueless there.
The NY Post also mentions they (Neely's family legal firm) wants Penny's insurance info. I'm not sure what that means either. What kind of insurance coverage kicks in if you're sued for wrongful death as a result of an incident on a subway?

"Now Neely’s aunt, Carolyn Neely, who represents Jordan’s estate, has hired the Manhattan law firm of Mills & Edwards to file a civil action against Penny, according to a letter obtained by The Post. “Please be advised that this office has been retained . . . to pursue a claim for personal injuries and wrongful death. . . . Your action resulted in the death of Jordan Neely,” reads the missive sent to Penny’s attorneys this week. The letter also requests Penny’s insurance information." Jordan Neely’s family to file wrongful death lawsuit against ‘subway vigilante’ Daniel Penny

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I don't know if a civil suit is decided by a jury or a judge. I've never followed one so I'm pretty much clueless there.
The NY Post also mentions they (Neely's family legal firm) wants Penny's insurance info. I'm not sure what that means either. What kind of insurance coverage kicks in if you're sued for wrongful death as a result of an incident on a subway?

"Now Neely’s aunt, Carolyn Neely, who represents Jordan’s estate, has hired the Manhattan law firm of Mills & Edwards to file a civil action against Penny, according to a letter obtained by The Post. “Please be advised that this office has been retained . . . to pursue a claim for personal injuries and wrongful death. . . . Your action resulted in the death of Jordan Neely,” reads the missive sent to Penny’s attorneys this week. The letter also requests Penny’s insurance information." Jordan Neely’s family to file wrongful death lawsuit against ‘subway vigilante’ Daniel Penny

I've only followed one, the Amber Heard show, and that was a jury trial, I've no idea if that's standard though.

Maybe to see if he has personal liability insurance for some reason? I can't think why he would, maybe as he surfs?, no idea.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I've only followed one, the Amber Heard show, and that was a jury trial, I've no idea if that's standard though.

Maybe to see if he has personal liability insurance for some reason? I can't think why he would, maybe as he surfs?, no idea.

Silly me, yes I also followed that one. It was such a flaming spectacle I'd forgot it was a civil case.
Good point about the personal liability insurance. I was thinking that's more of a homeowners policy but I guess some folks do get it as a stand alone, for various reasons.

 

[wary]

I don't know if a civil suit is decided by a jury or a judge. I've never followed one so I'm pretty much clueless there.
The NY Post also mentions they (Neely's family legal firm) wants Penny's insurance info. I'm not sure what that means either. What kind of insurance coverage kicks in if you're sued for wrongful death as a result of an incident on a subway?

"Now Neely’s aunt, Carolyn Neely, who represents Jordan’s estate, has hired the Manhattan law firm of Mills & Edwards to file a civil action against Penny, according to a letter obtained by The Post. “Please be advised that this office has been retained . . . to pursue a claim for personal injuries and wrongful death. . . . Your action resulted in the death of Jordan Neely,” reads the missive sent to Penny’s attorneys this week. The letter also requests Penny’s insurance information." Jordan Neely’s family to file wrongful death lawsuit against ‘subway vigilante’ Daniel Penny

It seems to be a jury trial unless—I think everyone involved—decides on a trial by judge. I’ve gotten the impression of six jurors, with five needed for a decision, but don’t know if that applies to all sorts of cases. And the burden of proof isn’t as great as in a criminal trial.

NY Juror Information - Laws & Rules

All MOO—I am not a lawyer!