Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #7 *Arrests*

[windrower]

I gathered that there may be a question of TC's involvement in killing JK. We know she was incapacitated at some level before Grice reached her, but was she already dead? TC's attorney is arguing that Grice inflicted the mortal wounds. At this point, I think there's going to be enough doubt created to take DP off the table for TC if he goes to trial. What a jury will decide is anyone's guess, though.

Bbm

I understand the legal finagling regarding the “who.”

But in my mind, there’s no difference between any of them. All are guilty of killing/murdering/torturing JK and VB.

Apparently, TC broke JK’s neck, paralyzing her. He certainly intended to kill her at that time, whether she died then or after laying there helpless while PG stabbed her.

 

[VeraVa]

Cole Twombly has accepted a plea deal -- max of life, suspended all but 30 years.

OSCN Case Details

View attachment 552723

No surprise there.

 

[legomonster]

Bbm

I understand the legal finagling regarding the “who.”

But in my mind, there’s no difference between any of them. All are guilty of killing/murdering/torturing JK and VB.

Apparently, TC broke JK’s neck, paralyzing her. He certainly intended to kill her at that time, whether she died then or after laying there helpless while PG stabbed her.

There is a huge difference between the killers. I can't think of another woman who convinced non-blood relatives to give up their entire lives and their own childrens' (even involving them) to murder two innocent people for her. One of the women wasn't involved at all, apart from being court appointed and losing her life to help Veronica. Tifany Adams is a female cult leader, (so incredibly rare) and in my eyes as dangerous as other previous cult leaders.

 

[VeraVa]

12/18/24

Hearing ends for suspect in Kansas murdered mothers case​

So, did I hear it correctly that Grice told his wife what he had done, but her facing charges was not a part of his plea deal? So he is willing to throw his wife under the bus now?

 

[Berrybell]

There is a huge difference between the killers. I can't think of another woman who convinced non-blood relatives to give up their entire lives and their own childrens' (even involving them) to murder two innocent people for her. One of the women wasn't involved at all, apart from being court appointed and losing her life to help Veronica. Tifany Adams is a female cult leader, (so incredibly rare) and in my eyes as dangerous as other previous cult leaders.

I honestly had not thought of TA as a cult leader before; however, I agree. She used their extremist church and twisted scriptures, according to Grice. I would be interested to know how many members the God's Misfits church had in regular attendance, and their thoughts on what has happened.

 

[Seattle1]

So, did I hear it correctly that Grice told his wife what he had done, but her facing charges was not a part of his plea deal? So he is willing to throw his wife under the bus now?

While most will probably agree it's morally wrong to remain silent, the wife not talking or contacting LE is not illegal so PG's not exactly throwing her under the bus. What is an actionable offense would be if the wife was questioned by LE and she lied to police. JMO

 

[VeraVa]

While most will probably agree it's morally wrong to remain silent, the wife not talking or contacting LE is not illegal so PG's not exactly throwing her under the bus. What is an actionable offense would be if the wife was questioned by LE and she lied to police. JMO

That is what I thought. The reporting left it unclear, as usual. I can understand if her not speaking out was done out of fear for her own life and that of the children. We can gather from his testimony that he is obviously “off”. No telling what he would be capable of doing to his own if he felt betrayed.

 

[Muddy K]

Did Grice actually say this, that Jilian didn't put up much of a fight? That would have been in the trailer on the way to the burial site, after Jilian had already been brutally stabbed by (probably) Tad Cullum, which the autopsy showed had the effect of causing her to be paralyzed from the neck down. Hard to put up much of a fight when you cannot move due to paralysis. Disgusting of him to say this, if so.

Oklahoman Report Dec 18 2024

@sunspun the appalling comment about JK not having "put up much of a fight" appears in the article I've linked here. Grice claimed Cullum told him this.

BTW, of all the articles I've read about the preliminary hearings, plea deals, waivers, etc., this one stands out for being well written and thorough.

It appears that Cullum strangled JK, likely breaking her neck and paralyzing her in the process, but he'll attempt to pin her "actual" death on Grice, who admitted to stabbing her after seeing her eyelids fluttering.

I'll get off my soap box eventually, but IMO every one of these adults is guilty of double homicide. All of them, even the vicious and delusional narcissist TA, had a week to snap out of it and abandon the plan. Four of them had a week to pull out of the plan and tip off LE, if not VB herself. There is no excuse for doing otherwise, none.

 

[vls12345]

Oklahoman Report Dec 18 2024

I'll get off my soap box eventually, but IMO every one of these adults is guilty of double homicide. All of them, even the vicious and delusional narcissist TA, had a week to snap out of it and abandon the plan. Four of them had a week to pull out of the plan and tip off LE, if not VB herself. There is no excuse for doing otherwise, none.

RSBM.

Exactly. And it wasn't a week to snap out of it & abandon their plan. They had an earlier, previous plan (in February) to kill VB by throwing an anvil off the back of a truck onto her car.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/21/us/oklahoma-double-murder-plot/index.html

In February, Adams, her boyfriend and the couple traveled to Butler’s home near Hugoton, Kansas, intending to kill her, a witness told investigators.
They planned to throw an anvil through Butler’s windshield while she was driving, reasoning that it would look like an accident, as anvils regularly fall off work vehicles, the witness added.

Also, has Grice's wife filed for divorce?

 

[LeahBee]

I thought the broken vertebrae and severed spinal cord were from a knife wound? That's what I remember from the autopsy report

 

[NewMommy09]

I thought the broken vertebrae and severed spinal cord were from a knife wound? That's what I remember from the autopsy report

That's what I remember reading too.

 

[Seattle1]

PG allegedly told some huge whoppers during his recorded interviews with OSBI including that JK had attacked him in the trailer and why he stabbed her! PG alleges he'd become paranoid that he was going to be used as the 'fall guy' for the murders, and blamed by TC and TA, who PG testified during the prelim hearing were also inside the trailer killing JK when he attacked VB at the entrance to the horse trailer but she escaped -- causing PG to tackle her outside the trailer near her vehicle. PG told the Court he lied during OSBI questioning but was being honest in Court because he raised his hand to God under the Oath in Court.

I don't think anything will save Tad from a jury believing he was deaf and blind to the atrocities of March 30! Seems to me Tad's defense is hoping to spare him the death penalty by blaming PG for JK's death but I think the family of the victims have already expressed mercy for the defendants to serve life sentences so not necessary to take up this pointless version that Tad just waited outside taking in fresh air. MOO

Defense attorney Joi Miskel pressed him over and over on Wednesday to just admit he "brutally murdered" both women himself instead of pointing the finger at others.

Grice each time said he didn't know if Kelley was dead or not when he stabbed her in the trailer while he said he was having a panic attack.

Grice also admitted under the defense questioning that he had lied twice to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation about his involvement.

In a legal filing in September, prosecutors had alleged Cullum stabbed the second woman. Prosecutors may back away from that allegation at trial but still say Cullum is responsible.

Grandmother accused of orchestrating two murders laughed after ambush, key witness says

Three murder defendants now face trial in the Oklahoma Panhandle double murder case. Two others have deals.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[Rixey]

Yikes @Seattle1 ….. and this one element stopped me in my tracks cold just now when I read it….

RSBMFF: “Cora testified that TA said Wrangler had turned on her and was coming to get the kids and take them away from TA, and…..”

Now that starts me to thinking that maybe TA also did this in spite of the son? If so, utter depravity. And renewing the call IMO that TA (and no one else involved) should be given a plea deal. MOO

I think Wrangler was likely quite lucky to be in jail and/or residential rehab when all this was going on. I can easily believe that TA would have been very willing to either find a way to get rid of him ("accidental OD" seems most likely) and/or she could have pinned the blame for VBs murder or disappearance on him if anyone got too close. I don't think there is much that TA wouldn't have done in her quest to be the 'sole owner' of her grandkids and she was already laying the groundwork for taking care of Wrangler if he got in the way of that goal.

 

[Rixey]

That is what I thought. The reporting left it unclear, as usual. I can understand if her not speaking out was done out of fear for her own life and that of the children. We can gather from his testimony that he is obviously “off”. No telling what he would be capable of doing to his own if he felt betrayed.

In most states you are not legally required to alert authorities if you know someone has committed a crime, however, if you do anything to help them hide or get away, then you can be charged as an accessory after the fact. It doesn't sound as if she did anything to help him, so she likely wouldn't be charged.

I think PGs statement in response to TCs attorney's questioning was more to show that he didn't make a deal to testify just to protect his wife from prosecution. The attorney was doing everything they could to discredit PGs testimony and that was just one angle they were trying to use. It likely would not sway the judge since it's a preliminary hearing & his deal makes no mention of the wife, but when they get in front of a jury they may try again just to try to sow seeds of doubt -- plus now they know how he will react/respond which is always useful.

 

[VeraVa]

In most states you are not legally required to alert authorities if you know someone has committed a crime, however, if you do anything to help them hide or get away, then you can be charged as an accessory after the fact. It doesn't sound as if she did anything to help him, so she likely wouldn't be charged.

I think PGs statement in response to TCs attorney's questioning was more to show that he didn't make a deal to testify just to protect his wife from prosecution. The attorney was doing everything they could to discredit PGs testimony and that was just one angle they were trying to use. It likely would not sway the judge since it's a preliminary hearing & his deal makes no mention of the wife, but when they get in front of a jury they may try again just to try to sow seeds of doubt -- plus now they know how he will react/respond which is always useful.

Yes, he is all over the place. They shouldn’t have a hard time pushing his buttons. TA knew how to do it. It will not be hard for TCs attorneys to do the same.

 

[PommyMommy]

DEC 20, 2024

New details on Oklahoma Panhandle killings

Court testimony revealed new information about the killings of two mothers thought to have been committed by members of “God’s Misfits.”

www.koco.com

The aunt of Veronica Butler, one of the victims, just got back to the Oklahoma City metro on Wednesday after a preliminary hearing wrapped up this week. One of the suspects, Paul Grice, gave substantial testimony on what led up to the deaths of Butler and Jilian Kelley and from the stand, also detailed his involvement with God’s Misfits.

“He cried on the stand, like, he was the only one of five that was remorseful,” said Ladonna Thompson, Butler’s aunt.

 

[PommyMommy]

DEC 20, 2024

One defendant in Kansas moms' murder bound for trial after others waive prelims

GUYMON – Only one of five defendants in the Easter weekend murders of Kansas moms Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley has been bound over for a trial in the case.

www.woodwardnews.net

For her part, Miskel's line of questioning of Twombly and Grice on both days seemed to be aimed at proving that no one saw Tad Cullum kill or attempt to kill anyone. ...

In her continued testimony on Tuesday afternoon, Twombly told the court she never saw Cullum until she had gone to the back of the flatbed pickup that was hauling the stock trailer to crush the two women's cell phones, wrap them in foil and place them in an ammo can. She said the only thing she saw Cullum doing was helping Grice place Butler's body into a freezer that was at the back of the trailer.

Twombly also told the court that later, after the murders, she and her daughter, who at that point did not know the plan had been executed, attended an Easter pageant.

!!!

 

[Muddy K]

RSBM.

Exactly. And it wasn't a week to snap out of it & abandon their plan. They had an earlier, previous plan (in February) to kill VB by throwing an anvil off the back of a truck onto her car.

@vls12345 just replying to clarify, I focused on there having been a week to abandon their depraved scheme because of Cora Twombly's testimony that Tad Cullum had been added to the murder team only a week prior to the killings. She testified they were worried he might drunkenly blab something, so he was kept in the dark until then.

 

[vls12345]

@vls12345 just replying to clarify, I focused on there having been a week to abandon their depraved scheme because of Cora Twombly's testimony that Tad Cullum had been added to the murder team only a week prior to the killings. She testified they were worried he might drunkenly blab something, so he was kept in the dark until then.

Yes. Understood. Sorry for any confusion. I was just mentioning the earlier plans to emphasize how depraved they are, planning at least two different scenarios in the pursuit of executing VB.

 

[GRT]

I honestly had not thought of TA as a cult leader before; however, I agree. She used their extremist church and twisted scriptures, according to Grice. I would be interested to know how many members the God's Misfits church had in regular attendance, and their thoughts on what has happened.

I agree with the idea that TA was a cult leader. And there was another decisive anti-government factor to the God's Misfits group. I think the two aspects combined created the cult atmosphere.

To what extent did the Misfits believe TA's story about her grandchild(ren) being sexually assaulted by Veronica's brother?

It sounds to me as though that's going to factor into each of their defenses because it's already coming up. Will the Defense try to get the jury to believe that the killers truly believed the child(ren) were being assaulted--and that legal channels to protect them had been exhausted, which led them to think there was only one way left to protect the children?

Did TA make them think they were risking their freedom to protect children? The number of stab wounds seems to suggest Grice was in a frenzy to finish it. Did she make them believe they were heroes and protectors of children?

As soon as they were arrested, TA spilled the beans--as though LE would also believe the killing was justified.

MOO -- that will be the defense during the trials -- is it justifiable to kill someone to save children from being assaulted?

The other thing I'm thinking is that they should probably move the trial's location. TA had a lot of influence in that sparsely populated community.