GUILTY PA - Christina Regusters for kidnap, rape of 5yo girl, Philadelphia, 14 Jan 2013 - #2

[O'Really]

As a resident of another large city where crime is prevalent, such expressions as we've heard from Mayor Nutter, Senator Williams, and Captain Darby are rare occurrences, and that's alarming. I'd be interested to hear from locals who can tell us if they recall similar declarations from this mayor and police department in response to other violent crimes.

'Heinous crime" has been heard around here many many times before.
Kensington Strangler, child rapist Jose Carrasquillo, Sabina rose O'donnell, just a few off the top of my head.

Regarding this kidnapping: the handful of people on the bus talking about this crime had me pretty let down... To sum up: They got their baby back home, so what else do they want?

 

[Flutterflies]

I have wondered from the beginning with the reports of cuts on lips of N if she had to endure oral assault. Those injuries may not have been apparent immediately if N would not open her mouth for examination. Maybe she could not eat, had oral injuries, even back of throat, subsequent infection and concern by her mom of not eating. She probably had trouble sleeping as well. Thus the return trip to the hospital.

I wish we could get an update on how little N is doing. Just a general update.
Is she still hospitalized? She is such a precious child. May justice be coming this week for N and her mother. No person or family should have to experience what N and her mother has.

 

[tlcya]

The possibly white male wearing sweat pants etc (accomplice) does not seem to fit into this picture tho. If she were taken for traditional cultural FMG, indoctrination type reasons, he doesn't fit the picture I have in my mind of who that person looks like.

I am trying to say this without getting tomatoes thrown at me or sound as culturally ignorant as I obviously am on this subject, but a woman garbed head to toe in traditional Muslim garb with this seeming young white male who sounds by his description very Americanized and casual. Do the two tend to go together?

:truce:

So maybe we are talking about an assault for sexual reasons?

I don't know, I just know the female and male primary suspects have felt very disparate to me. Trying to figure out how they fit together into this whole situation

 

[matou]

Capt. Darby's news conference audio file here from Jan 15th. I haven't listened to it yet. I want to know whether he mentioned the victim being restrained and someone enjoying themselves. Scroll further down past Mr. Myers interview file.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/kidnapped-girl-found-in-upper-darby/

 

[tlcya]

thanks Matou, will give it a listen in sec but while scrolling down found one of the references to cuts on N's lip that I had been ruminating on earlier.


Chitwood say the child was found crying, shivering and wearing only a t-shirt. He asked the Good Samaritan if the girl seemed injured and the man told him it looked like the young girl had cuts on her lip.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/kidnapped-girl-found-in-upper-darby/

poor lil punkin.

It just occurred to me about the lip cuts thing. How long does it take for dehydration to cause your lips to dry and begin cracking? My household had a recent bout with a nasty norovirus that severely and quickly dehydrated my son. I could tell it was happening because his poor little lips got very red, dry and began to crack and bleed around the edges.

Reports said she was fed, but how long was the poor baby hidden under that bed, did she receive anything to drink in that time.

 

[matou]

thanks Matou, will give it a listen in sec but while scrolling down found one of the references to cuts on N's lip that I had been ruminating on earlier.


Chitwood say the child was found crying, shivering and wearing only a t-shirt. He asked the Good Samaritan if the girl seemed injured and the man told him it looked like the young girl had cuts on her lip.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/kidnapped-girl-found-in-upper-darby/

poor lil punkin.

It just occurred to me about the lip cuts thing. How long does it take for dehydration to cause your lips to dry and begin cracking? My household had a recent bout with a nasty norovirus that severely and quickly dehydrated my son. I could tell it was happening because his poor little lips got very red, dry and began to crack and bleed around the edges.

Reports said she was fed, but how long was the poor baby hidden under that bed, did she receive anything to drink in that time.

Yes, in print it states the cut is on her lip but in the audio file, Myers calls it a scar under her lip that appeared to have recently been bleeding. That is the only injury he says that he saw and he claimed to have checked her up and down. I don't know if that means he saw anything under her shirt. I'm guessing he was looking for massive injures and wounds and cuts.

 

[belimom]

So this is what I just don't get. There are conflicting reports about whether or not she escaped or was let go - whether she was taken to the playground and left there or if someone was chasing her. Given that we really don't know exactly what happened in that regard, I'm just wondering why would someone go through all that risk to take this specific child in order to sexually assault her for a few hours and then let her go? That's what I can't wrap my mind around and what makes no sense to me.

Only two things would make sense:
1) to make child
2) FGM

There was something big at stake with taking this child - in other words, something very important. I think if it was sexual assault and nothing else, then any child that could be grabbed off the street or from a playground would be targeted. But this particular child was the target and someone went inside a school to get her - and in broad daylight walked down the street with her.

It makes no sense to go through all of this trouble for a specific child, unless getting to that one child had its benefit. I'm not even sure that child would be a reason for going into a school to get someone, kwim? I just am really confused by this case and the boldness of the abductors.

 

[tlcya]

Nelson Mandela Meyers has a daughter, also age 5, he said he would hope someone would do the same for his child. She was wearing long black tee shirt and nothing else, hair was frizzy and messy, under her lip she had a "scar" like it had recently been bleeding. {this confuses me} She shivered so badly I had trouble making out the name she was telling was hers. 69th street towards Walnut is the park where he found her.

as a dad, he is glad he was there at the right time for her.

 

[amberdawn723]

Here's the Jan 16th press conference video. Nothing about "enjoying the victim".

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/20...ct-identified-in-west-philadelphia-kidnapping

Thanks for the link! I went and relistened to it and I heard it wrong originally. He did NOT say "enjoying this victim".....he actually said "and joined this female abductor in restraining this child through the night until the next day". Sorry to have mislead anyone with that....:blushing:

 

[tlcya]

Also at the end of Mr. Meyer's statement the LE from Upper Darby said that for now this is a Philly case, if it turns out there is an upper Darby connection or if she was sexually assaulted in UD then their agency would be getting involved.

{wish I knew the geography better, guess I will be back to the maps}

 

[tlcya]

I think the use of the word scar by Mr Meyers is what is confusing to me. If a wound has recently been bleeding, it is not a scar, if it was not bleeding at the time it is a wound that has scabbed but it is not a scar.

I think Mr. Meyers simply was nervous during his interview and could not find the word he was looking for to describe what he saw near her lip (singular, not plural)

As to Dabry's statement things that stood out:

We did receive some tips through the night (unproductive) until 4:30 this morning via pedestrian (Mr. Meyers) who had found a child in the area of 69th and Marshall Road in upper Darby.

Given conditions she was found in (wet cold tee shirt) transported immediately to hospital. No OVERT or immediately visible injuries to her. She was given, is still undergoing sexual assault screening simply due to the conditions which she was recovered.

Preliminary interview of 5 year old has been done but keep in mind this child's world has been clearly turned upside down in the last 24 hours. We have a fragile victim at sensitive age. preliminary interviews but after release from hospital we intend to have her interviewed by certified forensic interviewer.

try to determine just what occurred to this child in the overnight hours.

{Interesting comment from Darby (paraphrased) IMO} Cannot release any details. This is preliminary info, anything said in the ER environment with a lot of strange people around, I'd be negligent to put that out {wondering if there was a concern from LE about info that was coming out during initial exam at ER and Darby was concerned about loose lips sinking ships and that is why all the emphasis on waiting to release more info til she'd been examined by certified forensic interviewer, probably expert in dealing with questioning a traumatized child}

Female was absolutely unknown to this child.

Several scenes we have been processing, video surveillance, good cooperation from school, that search continues trough the entire area. No vehicle used.

None of this is factual until we can get this child into a controlled environment and get a timeline as best we can from the child.

Reiterates that the abductor was not known to N.

Again reiterates that we don't have child's formal interview yet and info given now is not really reliable at this point.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/15/kidnapped-girl-found-in-upper-darby/

Thank you Matou, it was really helpful to go back to the initial presser after N was found and hear it again.

 

[amberdawn723]

N was found in Upper Darby....it is very close to the Philly area where her school is.
On my map the bright green pin is where she was found, and the area outlined in blue is the search grid (completely confined to Philly). I wish Upper Darby would get involved and also search the homes around the park......but I think the home of the perp is in Philly based on the direction they were walking JMO.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204150161293193815171.0004d36c27fb975e3cf0a&msa=0&ll=39.952056,-75.246563&spn=0.023029,0.052314

 

[tlcya]

Still hung up on the use of the word scar in regards to N's lip. I am thinking, if she was out ill Thursday and Friday from school, is it possible she had a small healing wound on her lip caused by dehydration?

Say she was ill late in the week before and over the weekend recovering. If her lips had cracked and bled during that time, and were somewhat healing. Then she returns to school only to be kidnapped minutes later.

She is held captive, hidden under a bed, without enough liquid. For a child who has recently been dehydrated by illness, it may not take long for her lips to dry up again and begin to crack in an area already tender and sore from the recent illness.

I am thinking that must be the lip "scar" "wound" explaination

 

[Hexe]

The possibly white male wearing sweat pants etc (accomplice) does not seem to fit into this picture tho. If she were taken for traditional cultural FMG, indoctrination type reasons, he doesn't fit the picture I have in my mind of who that person looks like.

I am trying to say this without getting tomatoes thrown at me or sound as culturally ignorant as I obviously am on this subject, but a woman garbed head to toe in traditional Muslim garb with this seeming young white male who sounds by his description very Americanized and casual. Do the two tend to go together?

Well, if someone plans to kidnap a Muslim girl from the school in an area inhabited by Muslims, traditional Muslim garb would be a most convenient outfit to do that. Female dressed like that is unrecognisable, yet can go anywhere without drawing attention, what would be impossible with any other kind of a masking outfit. She wouldn't be allowed into the school, wearing a ski mask for example. So I think it's quite possible the female perp wore the Muslim garb out of convenience, not for any religious reasons.

 

[tlcya]

That is exactly the point I am hung up on Hexe.

If the garb was for convenience (disguise) then I would think the perp was a non traditional Muslim or non Muslim. Which suggest that this crime has nothing to do with religion, culture, etc and makes it much less likely that this was for FGM or revenge/message regarding grandfather.

But then that would make the whole if she was released purposefully thing extremely unlikely IMO.

Which then leaves us with what? Sexual assault purposes with her escaping their clutches or being assisted in escape? Which then begs the question why THIS child was targeted? Which then returns to the facts which seem to suggest the perps are familiar with the family and its routine or at the very least N and the school's routine? Who goes to these crazy risky lengths to kidnap a specific child for some nefariousness unknown reason but is completely unknown to the child?

and around and around I go. Somebody stop this merry go round, my head hurts. :dizzy:

 

[belimom]

Here is the documentary FyreEyes by Soraya Mire mentioned in the link by Belimom if anyone wants to see it..(very graphic)

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/1554/Fire-Eyes

I just finished watching the entire documentary. Wow. Just... horrific.

Since we're unsure if this is what has happened to N, I've started a thread in the basement (I didn't know where else to put it?) about FGM. Maybe we should move that discussion down there:

Female Genital Mutilation (FGM, aka 'female circumcision')

 

[tlcya]

Thanks belimom. I agree about moving the in depth conversation regarding the practice downstairs.

While, based upon what has been said and not said about N's case, this may be a factor, and mods have okayed us discussing it here, I am slightly uncomfortable with the way it has dominated the thread at this point.

So I think it is good to carry the more indepth discussion about this particular angle downstairs and keep references to this angle up here more general and using FGM as the term when discussing it in this more open area of WS.

Great Idea.

 

[The Cheese]

Still hung up on the use of the word scar in regards to N's lip. I am thinking, if she was out ill Thursday and Friday from school, is it possible she had a small healing wound on her lip caused by dehydration?

Say she was ill late in the week before and over the weekend recovering. If her lips had cracked and bled during that time, and were somewhat healing. Then she returns to school only to be kidnapped minutes later.

She is held captive, hidden under a bed, without enough liquid. For a child who has recently been dehydrated by illness, it may not take long for her lips to dry up again and begin to crack in an area already tender and sore from the recent illness.

I am thinking that must be the lip "scar" "wound" explaination

I think maybe the gentleman meant to say scab, but in his nervousness of what was likely the first press conference of his life, misspoke and said scar.

I recently read a book about a teenage girl named Sylvia (can't remember her last name) who was kept in a basement and tortured horribly for months. When they found her, deceased, she had chewed through her lips. The book explained that is the natural human response to extreme pain - we bite our lips. I've wondered if that's what the wound on this baby's lip was.

 

[jjenny]

If we are on the right track on what was done to the child, then she could have bit her lip during the procedure. Would these people even use anesthesia?

 

[belimom]

If we are on the right track on what was done to the child, then she could have bit her lip during the procedure. Would these people even use anesthesia?

*IF* that is what was done, most of the procedures are done without it, from what I've learned just in less than 24 hrs. Some folks use a local anesthetic, but I'm sure that does little to curb the pain, depending on how extensive the procedure was.

I'm on the fence about whether or not this happened to N. But this case is just so atypical... it's hard to really get a handle on what LE is saying as well as no arrests.

ETA - We also know that child rape can cause extensive internal physical damage, so this could be what was done as well. I just don't see why they would target that one child for that - considering they had to take quite a risk to get her.