PLEA DEAL REACHED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #109

[SteveP]

O/T, but if you have not heard, there is a situation going on in Coeur d'Alene, (Maddie's home town, about 80 miles from Moscow). Active shooter(s) in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, firefighters responded to brush fire on Canfield Mountain, and were ambushed. 2 confirmed dead from sniper fire. Several others shot, one news source says as many as nine Still active scene. You can follow it on the scanner thread, in the basement, but cannot bring the convo here. Also, poster @Gemmie has a link to a thread that has been made here.

 

[Gemmie]

O/T, but just wanted to let you know, if you had not heard, there is a situation going on in Coeur d'Alene, (Maddie's home town, about 80 miles from Moscow). Active shooter(s) in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, firefighters responded to brush fire and were ambushed. 2 confirmed dead. Several others shot, one news source says as many as nine Still active scene. You can follow it on the scanner thread, in the basement, but cannot bring the convo here.

(Here's the WS thread: ID -Multiple firefighters reportedly shot while responding to fire near Coeur d’Alene )

 

[SteveP]

(Here's the WS thread: ID -Multiple firefighters reportedly shot while responding to fire near Coeur d’Alene )

Thank you!

 

[Arkay]

DM is the sole witness to the INTRUDER. The person in the house. The DD driver could be a witness to someone she saw outside. Seeing someone outside of a house does not = "intruder", though they could be the same person.

Even if the DD driver only saw BK’s car and has a good description, that would be fantastic!

I doubt she would be able to identify the driver as being BK himself.

But I do think she might be able to testify that she saw a white male with dark hair, looked to be in his 20's to 30's.

I do agree that the wording seems to indicate that only one living person saw the intruder. BK was not yet “intruding” when he was parked outside. Once he trespassed into the house, he then became the intruder and as far as we know, only DM actually saw him and is alive to testify.

I also completely agree that the DD driver, once these murders hit the news, did in fact realize in retrospect that she had seen a car matching the description, at about the same time and place as she was making her delivery.

IMO the DD driver, while unable to substantiate anything more than what she saw outside, remains an important witness. Her testimony adds another nugget to the heap of circumstantial evidence, whereas the testimony of DM adds to the direct evidence.

I also am fine with the DD driver referring to him as “Bryan” when interviewed by police regarding her own situation. IMO it doesn’t suggest any familiarity with him; rather she called him “Bryan” the way we often do here——his name is well-known, unfortunately.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Is your thinking the following:

If the DD driver saw Xana and not DM or BF at the window, this supports the State’s timeline of the murders and refutes the Defense’s possible earlier timeline (and the Defense’s innuendo that perhaps DM and BF are at least complicit in the murders).

Yes, that^^^ is main reason why I want to know if she saw Xana.

I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline.

This would indeed be helpful for the State, but I also want to know if the DD driver saw Xana for another reason:

If the DD driver saw Xana, then BK may have seen her, too, but he entered the house less than 15 minutes later anyway. This would indicate that his mission was, from the start, to murder his target(s) and anyone in the way (unless, of course, Xana was also his target).

IMOO

I hadn't thought of that aspect of it. Interesting.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939634117466886285

"A key hearing is set to play out in a courtroom in Pennsylvania today
to determine whether several major figures from Bryan Kohberger's past life
will be ordered to testify in his capital murder trial.

The accused killer's former boxing coach,
a man who worked at a local auto shop he used,
and a fellow student at a school the suspect once attended
are among a group of five Pennsylvanians summoned to appear in Monroe County Court Monday morning.

They have been called as witnesses for the defense
when Kohberger goes on trial."

 

[Sachi]

Yes, that^^^ is main reason why I want to know if she saw Xana.

I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline.

I hadn't thought of that aspect of it. Interesting.

"I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline. "
WHa?
That there seems like a "Jason Bourne" movie scene.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

"I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline. "
WHa?
That there seems like a "Jason Bourne" movie scene.

"Young TikTok fans" are either probergers, then, or are embroidering the known facts: BK doesn't have friends or accomplices to help him. His DNA is at the heart of the murder scene. If there were others, "accomplices", BK's defense would be accusing them of being the killers. They'd have their SODDI. if the implication is that the roommates did it, a bunch of drunk kids would have left forensic evidence impossible to hide entirely. Do I think either of those kids could have held up under FBI examination if any forensics pointed to them? No. Nope. Nopety nope. Those guys don't play and I've seen that in person.

There is no evidence that either survivor left the house. Other people known to the housemates in general were investigated and cleared. So who would these "accomplices" be? How would they use X's cell without leaving evidence? Why "confuse the timeline"? The longer the timeline, the more likely they, the accomplices, would be implicated? And why bring a potential witness to the house while the main killer, BK, is outside in his car? It's the DoorDash and the video of BK leaving that establish the timeline. This strikes me as just a proberger argument, smearing the survivors.

It's stupid and dangerous to weave conspiracy theories out of whole cloth. And it's grossly unfair to the survivors.

 

[Justice101]

In those horrific few days when the case had first broken in the media, myself and a lot of others had their eye on the frat boys and surrounding residents - close proximity, personal relationships, etc.

Then EVERYTHING else happened. The arrest affidavit, the knife evidence, the DNA evidence, the search warrant, and I felt shocked and ashamed I’d ever imagined this was done by someone in their peer group or surrounding neighbourhood.

AT obviously doesn’t share these sentiments. Haven’t they gone through enough?

MOO

She is a defense lawyer. Her job is to defend her client to the best of her ability even if it means making the victim's families unhappy. That's the way it works and I respect that to a degree.

If the defense goes too far and like tried to blame or shame the victims or witnesses themselves (too drunk, etc.) and poses that to a jury, that is not going to have a good outcome for the defendant. Seems to me that defense lawyer walk a tight line between generating reasonable doubt and (when they have nothing) completely alienating the jury.

Sadly, I think the family of the victim rarely wins: a plea deal: spares the family reliving the nightmare but the perpetrator gets a lighter sentence, and with a jury trial: every thing is out in the open and (I just can't imagine crime scene photos. God that make me want to puke right now).

My wife's father was killed by a serial killer decades ago. The perpetrator was arrested, confessed and was convicted without a trial. To this day, my wife is haunted with what little details she knows. I can't imagine knowing more.

 

[Chloegirl]

Ever just strike up a conversation with some other SODDIs about murdering folks? Yeah, that does not happen.

People who conspire together are thick like thieves, part of a group, family-tied or BFFs. You do not casually decide to commit murder with people. That sort of wipes out all conspiracy theories.

They also tend to turn on each other when pressed. JMOO

 

[Sachi]

"Young TikTok fans" are either probergers, then, or are embroidering the known facts: BK doesn't have friends or accomplices to help him. His DNA is at the heart of the murder scene. If there were others, "accomplices", BK's defense would be accusing them of being the killers. They'd have their SODDI. if the implication is that the roommates did it, a bunch of drunk kids would have left forensic evidence impossible to hide entirely. Do I think either of those kids could have held up under FBI examination if any forensics pointed to them? No. Nope. Nopety nope. Those guys don't play and I've seen that in person.

There is no evidence that either survivor left the house. Other people known to the housemates in general were investigated and cleared. So who would these "accomplices" be? How would they use X's cell without leaving evidence? Why "confuse the timeline"? The longer the timeline, the more likely they, the accomplices, would be implicated? And why bring a potential witness to the house while the main killer, BK, is outside in his car? It's the DoorDash and the video of BK leaving that establish the timeline. This strikes me as just a proberger argument, smearing the survivors.

It's stupid and dangerous to weave conspiracy theories out of whole cloth. And it's grossly unfair to the survivors.

I was responding to that theory not originating. Just making that clear - I didn’t mean to give it wings

 

[PunishThenForgive]

"I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline. "
WHa?
That there seems like a "Jason Bourne" movie scene.

"Young TikTok fans" are either probergers, then, or are embroidering the known facts: BK doesn't have friends or accomplices to help him. His DNA is at the heart of the murder scene. If there were others, "accomplices", BK's defense would be accusing them of being the killers. They'd have their SODDI. if the implication is that the roommates did it, a bunch of drunk kids would have left forensic evidence impossible to hide entirely. Do I think either of those kids could have held up under FBI examination if any forensics pointed to them? No. Nope. Nopety nope. Those guys don't play and I've seen that in person.

There is no evidence that either survivor left the house. Other people known to the housemates in general were investigated and cleared. So who would these "accomplices" be? How would they use X's cell without leaving evidence? Why "confuse the timeline"? The longer the timeline, the more likely they, the accomplices, would be implicated? And why bring a potential witness to the house while the main killer, BK, is outside in his car? It's the DoorDash and the video of BK leaving that establish the timeline. This strikes me as just a proberger argument, smearing the survivors.

It's stupid and dangerous to weave conspiracy theories out of whole cloth. And it's grossly unfair to the survivors.

I agree with you, @Sachi, the proberger TikTok fans whom @katydid23 wishes to refute love nothing more than spinning a good tale at the expense of already deeply traumatized young women.

I’m glad katydid23 is facing what’s out there and at least attempting to counter it. I don’t have the stomach to engage with conspiracy theorists, though I do keep track of one particularly egregious YouTuber’s commenters to see if they turn after yet another round of revelations pointing to BK’s guilt. Unfortunately, they just dig in deeper in their rabbit holes, spurred, of course, by their cynical content creator.

IMOO

 

[Sachi]

I agree with you, @Sachi, the proberger TikTok fans whom @katydid23 wishes to refute love nothing more than spinning a good tale at the expense of already deeply traumatized young women.

I’m glad katydid23 is facing what’s out there and at least attempting to counter it. I don’t have the stomach to engage with conspiracy theorists, though I do keep track of one particularly egregious YouTuber’s commenters to see if they turn after yet another round of revelations pointing to BK’s guilt, but they just dig in deeper in their rabbit holes (spurred, of course, by their cynical content creator).

IMOO

Goodonya Kadydid- I’m impatient and probs not thinking out of the box on this one, too much mental gymnastics.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

"I do personally know a few young TiKTok fans who are convinced that X and EC were killed earlier and then the accomplices used X's cell to order DD and to scroll on the phone to confuse the timeline. "
WHa?
That there seems like a "Jason Bourne" movie scene.

@katydid23 had relied to my post, so when you replied to her post, my original post (which she split into two sections) didn’t appear.

So if one hadn’t read katydid23’s original reply to my post, they may have thought that she found the conspiracy theories interesting, which is not what she said.

I just wanted to point out this glitch that occurs when we reply to a post. And it happens with anything in blue quotation boxes, not just quoted posts. I just noticed it myself recently. It really can lead to people misinterpreting posts.

IMO

 

[MassGuy]

This morning's GMA interview with HJ and EA, who were there during the 911 call.

Friends of Idaho college murder victims speak out

Hunter Johnson and Emily Alandt talk about how they discovered the bodies of their friends Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen in an off-campus home in November 2022.

www.goodmorningamerica.com

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I was responding to that theory not originating. Just making that clear - I didn’t mean to give it wings

Of course. My point was that it's an absurd idea, not even a theory, which would require evidence. But I'm interested in people who seem to need a conspiracy and will spin ridiculous interpretations to support it, e.g., the way the Sandy Hook conspiracists were sure that the zeroed out tax listings were payoffs to families when that was just how the system worked. This one starts with survivors and nearby students and the fast timeline, I suppose, or just a need to make BK less culpable.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Judge says 3 witnesses sought by Kohberger must testify in trial

STROUDSBURG, Pa. — A Pennsylvania judge on Monday ordered that three people whose testimony has been requested by defense attorneys will have to travel to Idaho to appear at the trial of a man accused of stabbing to death four college students in 2022.

The defense subpoenas were granted regarding a boxing trainer who knew Bryan Kohberger as a teenager, a childhood acquaintance of Kohberger's and a third man whose significance was not explained.

A prison official came to court with records from Kohberger's stay in the Monroe County Correctional Facility after he was arrested, although the subpoena hearing was continued because he must still provide a statement attesting to their authenticity.

Common Pleas Judge Arthur Zulick also continued for a week the hearing regarding a subpoena for Ralph Vecchio, who owns a car dealership where Kohberger's parents purchased a Hyundai Elantra in 2019.

A sixth witness' hearing had previously been rescheduled for next week because of a travel conflict, and the seventh person sought by the defense consented last week to travel to Idaho for the trial expected to begin in August.

 

[MassGuy]

Details about today’s hearing in Pennsylvania, dealing with if certain defense witnesses will have to testify.

The judge ruled in favor of the defense in regard to all of the witnesses who appeared today.

There are hearings scheduled for the rest in the near future.

These witnesses include a high school acquaintance of Kohberger, a man who trained Kohberger at a boxing gym, and a third man whose connection was unclear, but didn’t oppose the summons.

Bryan Kohberger to plead guilty to killing 4 University of Idaho students in deal to avoid execution

Bryan Kohberger has agreed to plead guilty to murdering four University of Idaho students as part of a deal with prosecutors to avoid the death penalty.

apnews.com

 

[Megnut]

Judge says 3 witnesses sought by Kohberger must testify in trial

STROUDSBURG, Pa. — A Pennsylvania judge on Monday ordered that three people whose testimony has been requested by defense attorneys will have to travel to Idaho to appear at the trial of a man accused of stabbing to death four college students in 2022.

The defense subpoenas were granted regarding a boxing trainer who knew Bryan Kohberger as a teenager, a childhood acquaintance of Kohberger's and a third man whose significance was not explained.

A prison official came to court with records from Kohberger's stay in the Monroe County Correctional Facility after he was arrested, although the subpoena hearing was continued because he must still provide a statement attesting to their authenticity.

Common Pleas Judge Arthur Zulick also continued for a week the hearing regarding a subpoena for Ralph Vecchio, who owns a car dealership where Kohberger's parents purchased a Hyundai Elantra in 2019.

A sixth witness' hearing had previously been rescheduled for next week because of a travel conflict, and the seventh person sought by the defense consented last week to travel to Idaho for the trial expected to begin in August.

Oh, Boy, AT, a line up of people who aren't -- how can I say -- feeling the love to be called to testify for the defense.

His boxing trainer from high school? To testify to what? Whether BK had velcro closures on his shoes? That he wasn't super coordinated? Or will she swing the other way to elicit testimony that BK was fit, determined, hard-working? Ooooo, what's the word for that?  athletic

How far back does AT have to go to find people who can vouch, either way, for something constructive or something sympathetic? Twenty years?

It'll be interesting to see if she ever actually calls them.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

@katydid23 had relied to my post, so when you replied to her post, my original post (which she split into two sections) didn’t appear.

So if one hadn’t read katydid23’s original reply to my post, they may have thought that she found the conspiracy theories interesting, which is not what she said.

I just wanted to point out this glitch that occurs when we reply to a post. And it happens with anything in blue quotation boxes, not just quoted posts. I just noticed it myself recently. It really can lead to people misinterpreting posts.

IMO

Sorry for that