RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[DeeDee249]

Some psychotics function very well socially. Depends on the psychosis.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Some psychotics function very well socially. Depends on the psychosis.

Well I would think once a person crosses over the line, like in blue bottles scenario...we are talking full out psychotic break.

I just don't agree with that.


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[MissJ]

Some psychotics function very well socially. Depends on the psychosis.

Heavily medicated yes. Otherwise no. JMO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

PR could've had a Personality Disorder like Dissociative Disorder (and probably a few concurrent other ones too) which would make her "split" and have more than one personality....if you will.
There could've been the more "evil" PR, and then the southern-belle charmer PR.
It would've developed out of abuse and putting on appearances during childhood as a coping mechanism (imo, and that probably fits PR).

And perhaps PR was trying to "re-work" her youth and make it better (prettier) through JBR. And we all know that is not possible or healthy to revisit the path to create a better scenario. Perhaps PR found that out too?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Mean behaviour doesn't spell psychosis.

Whoever staged that night, was not psychotic. It was too controlled and rational.

Neither JR nor PR showed any signs of psychosis, before or after, nor any medical history indicating such events.

Some say you have to be mad to rape and murder a child. Death Row tells us this isn't so...they'd all be in a psych ward not waiting for the needle.

Sane people do awful, awful things, without having a "psychosis" excuse to hide behind.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

psy·cho·sis (s-kss)
n. pl. psy·cho·ses (-sz)
A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/psychosis


PR functioned just fine socially.

She was not "psychotic".

Yes she was.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

PR could've had a Personality Disorder like Dissociative Disorder (and probably a few concurrent other ones too) which would make her "split" and have more than one personality....if you will.
There could've been the more "evil" PR, and then the southern-belle charmer PR.
It would've developed out of abuse and putting on appearances during childhood as a coping mechanism (imo, and that probably fits PR).

And perhaps PR was trying to "re-work" her youth and make it better (prettier) through JBR. And we all know that is not possible or healthy to revisit the path to create a better scenario. Perhaps PR found that out too?

Yes Patsy was dissociative.

 

[Venom]

I was just doing some googling and found this:

Psychosis (or psychotic symptoms) may also be found in:

Most people with schizophrenia
Some people with bipolar disorder (manic-depressive) or severe depression
Some personality disorders

from here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/#adam_001553.disease.symptoms

Just throwing some ideas around. Wouldn't you think that PR's family would have noticed something being off with her? Is there any links to any interviews with her friends/family in regards to how she was?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Throughout the day, Patsy's manner would change abruptly depending on the question. Inquieries about Access Graphics and John's bonus were met with "I really just don't know much about what goes on at work. ... I wasn't aware he got a bonus." Soft words, big doe eyes. All America knew that $118,000 figure, and she didn't? Asked about the ransom note being written on a pad from her home, the little-girl persona emerged. "It was? I didn't know that". She denied knowing anything about the "small foreign faction" mentioned in the note and said she "didn't have a clue" about the sign-off acronym, S.B.T.C. The woman was a chameleon.

That is SteveThomas encountering her dissociative behavior.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I was just doing some googling and found this:

Psychosis (or psychotic symptoms) may also be found in:

Most people with schizophrenia
Some people with bipolar disorder (manic-depressive) or severe depression
Some personality disorders

from here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/#adam_001553.disease.symptoms

Just throwing some ideas around. Wouldn't you think that PR's family would have noticed something being off with her? Is there any links to any interviews with her friends/family in regards to how she was?

There really aren't that many accounts published. I think more would come out if it ever became accepted that she did the whole thing and did it deliberately.

Many of the behaviors of disturbed people are seen as merely problematic and not pathological: they cause social difficulties not social breakdowns.

And all you have to do is read accounts of DID and there will be example after example of people suffering the disorder while having jobs and relationships however troubled, short lived and disfunctional they may be.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Well I would think once a person crosses over the line, like in blue bottles scenario...we are talking full out psychotic break.

That is not my scenario, that is your understanding of psychosis.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

PR functioned just fine socially.

And you know that how?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Heavily medicated yes. Otherwise no. JMO

Most people make the mistake of thinking a psychosis is only overt; a complete withdrawl from reality when psychoses occur in degrees of depth from shallow to deep.

A person can enter a shallow psychosis and return to function in society.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

But not psychotic...they hear voices, see things,

As did many of the Old Testament prophets (Islamic as well).

 

[midwest mama]

There really aren't that many accounts published. I think more would come out if it ever became accepted that she did the whole thing and did it deliberately.

Many of the behaviors of disturbed people are seen as merely problematic and not pathological: they cause social difficulties not social breakdowns.

And all you have to do is read accounts of DID and there will be example after example of people suffering the disorder while having jobs and relationships however troubled, short lived and disfunctional they may be.

Your theory and opinion of Patsy having a psychotic personality are interesting, and because I have had a relationship with a person I believe has Borderline Personality Disorder, I can see attributes of Patsy's that support your thoughts.

Before I can begin to totally consider Patsy planning JB's death deliberately for that Christmas season, though there are some clues that bear that possibility with regard to Patsy's Christmas preparations, I have a question. If Patsy was intending to send JB to heaven, why would she have had her entered in another pageant soon after Christmas? There was also the planned trip on the Disney cruise.

With such a dramatic end to JB's life planned out, why would she have set up some major events which would have included a living JB? And I am truly interested in knowing how a psychotic mind might be able to think about "business as usual" and plan for it also, when they have totally different intentions that will only ultimately sabotage those plans.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Your theory and opinion of Patsy having a psychotic personality are interesting, and because I have had a relationship with a person I believe has Borderline Personality Disorder, I can see attributes of Patsy's that support your thoughts.

Before I can begin to totally consider Patsy planning JB's death deliberately for that Christmas season, though there are some clues that bear that possibility with regard to Patsy's Christmas preparations, I have a question. (1) If Patsy was intending to send JB to heaven, why would she have had her entered in another pageant soon after Christmas? There was also the planned trip on the Disney cruise.

With such a dramatic end to JB's life planned out, (2) why would she have set up some major events which would have included a living JB? And I am truly interested in knowing how a psychotic mind might be able to think about "business as usual" and plan for it also, when they have totally different intentions that will only ultimately sabotage those plans.

First, good luck with your borderline person. It is difficult, I know.

Second (1) is answered by the fact that we have a social persona and a private persona. Patsy's social had JB going forward, her private had her going elswhere.

In order to understand what Patsy did you have to remove JonBenet from the equation. JB was an object that carried the projection of Patsy's mind. Patsy did things to the object in order to participate with what was going on in her mind. And that was a fantasy.

(2) One is a dream the other a fantasy. Normally adapted people (Patsy's social persona) work over time constructively to bring a dream (idea) into fruition. A psychotic convinces themselves that a destructive act is creative and takes a shortcut to bring a fantasy to fruition.

Fantasies can't cross the boundary to reality. But that doesn't stop some people from trying.

 

[midwest mama]

First, good luck with your borderline person. It is difficult, I know.

Second (1) is answered by the fact that we have a social persona and a private persona. Patsy's social had JB going forward, her private had her going elswhere.

In order to understand what Patsy did you have to remove JonBenet from the equation. JB was an object that carried the projection of Patsy's mind. Patsy did things to the object in order to participate with what was going on in her mind. And that was a fantasy.

(2) One is a dream the other a fantasy. Normally adapted people (Patsy's social persona) work over time constructively to bring a dream (idea) into fruition. A psychotic convinces themselves that a destructive act is creative and takes a shortcut to bring a fantasy to fruition.

I made a choice to sever from the Borderline. It will be a while before the resulting chaos (which will at least now have a conclusion) will be sorted through. Light at the end of the tunnel is at least something to move towards, rather than wandering around in the maze of chaos that a Borderline can put into every day life. Thanks for your empathy...it is appreciated.

So, why was the fantasy of Patsy's personal persona more important to her as a successful venture than the obvious rewards that carrying out the agenda of her social persona would have provided? Patsy seemed to thrive off of public and family recognition.

Would she have been able to believe that she would never have been suspected JB's killer? If she had any fear she might be found out, why would the threat of consequences not been enough to stop her actions?

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I made a choice to sever from the Borderline. It will be a while before the resulting chaos (which will at least now have a conclusion) will be sorted through. Light at the end of the tunnel is at least something to move towards, rather than wandering around in the maze of chaos that a Borderline can put into every day life. Thanks for your empathy...it is appreciated.

(1) So, why was the fantasy of Patsy's personal persona more important to her as a successful venture than the obvious rewards that carrying out the agenda of her social persona would have provided? Patsy seemed to thrive off of public and family recognition.

(2) Would she have been able to believe that she would never have been suspected JB's killer? If she had any fear she might be found out, why would the threat of consequences not been enough to stop her actions?

There are more and more accounts being recorded and published concerning borderlines. These are heroic acts.

(1) Because the former had to do with death and the later life. Also, she gave way to the unconscious.

(2) Oddly, she wanted to be recognized. She pleaded for police investigators to "find who did this to my baby." The threat of consequences aren't seen the same way to a psychotic who wanders in a moral vacuum as a moral person sees the threat.

The regressed narcissistic mind has things figured out and determines it's own consequences. The supressed or lost moral mind gives way.

This is why the ransom note is a declaration not a diversion.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

So, why was the fantasy of Patsy's personal persona more important to her as a successful venture than the obvious rewards that carrying out the agenda of her social persona would have provided?

Adapted, moral adults self sacrifice for a greater good. Infantile narcissistic adults find other things to be sacrificed for their self interest.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That is not my scenario, that is your understanding of psychosis.

I'm incredibly interested in your scenario as i too have considered it a strong possibility Patsy acted alone, all alone.

I once considered Patsy wanted JonBenet there waiting for her arrival in heaven. Patsy didn't want to "go" alone.

The note .... I do believe it was staging, Patsy didn't want to go to prison.


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