Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - 12 Boys And Coach Still Trapped In Cave , 23 June 2018 #2

[rosesfromangels]

I hope those UK dive experts aren't as buffed as they look in the pics or they might not fit through those narrow passages?

 

[margarita25]

"Ben Reymenants, a Belgian cave diver who operates a dive shop in Thailand, was part of the group that first found the boys on Monday, after more than a week of searching. He said the muddy current pushing against him on his initial dive felt as powerful as the Colorado River’s.

“You’re literally pulling yourself, hand over hand, in zero visibility,” Mr. Reymenants, 45, recalled in a telephone interview. “You can’t read your depth gauge, you can’t read the time, so you’re basically flying blind in a direction you don’t know.”

Mr. Reymenants said he and other experienced cave divers initially thought finding the group would be impossible under such terrible conditions.

But after it was clear that Thai Navy commanders would continue sending their SEAL members in, Mr. Reymenants said he had volunteered to dive a second time.

“Those kids were at the age that they could have been my son,” he said. “A Navy SEAL can’t just sit there while these kids die in the cave. They have to show some activity — and if you’re a Navy SEAL, yes, you’ll sacrifice yourself.”"

Thai Cave Rescue Will Be a Murky and Desperate Ordeal, Divers Say

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I don't understand the bolded part at all. It makes no sense to me. They aren't going to bring the boys out, while there is no rain, and the water is lower than usual.

But IF they face heavy rains, they will. How can they bring them out if the rains are ongoing and the waters is rising?

And how can they wait long enough to know if the situation is stable? once they realize it is not stable, wouldn't it be too late to bring them out safely?

I really do not understand the statement above. :sigh:

Actually, i think you understand it perfectly.

I'm beginning to think they don't believe it's going to be possible.

 

[Spellbound]

Weather for Chiang Rai, Thailand
Weather in Chiang Rai, Thailand
Hour-by-Hour Forecast 14 Day Forecast

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

It probably means that the risk is still higher to make them dive in their weakened state than take a chance with the weather. Imo

And the possibility for a safer rescue still exists. Someone may finds a chimney entrance into the cave. Drilling and boring companies are now offering their services for free.

 

[*Verdigris]

Its too difficult to get the supplies in and nowhere to put it. what about the waste produced too???

I really fear the outcome of this mess.

I wonder about this, too -- as they don't address the more "delicate" subject matter. But they can use something like a pilot's Little John for inside the cockpit urinal -- or just pee in an empty coke bottle and close the lid.
I have poop-bags for my doggy pee pads, and his poop...
doesn't stink! (when tied closed) I even left a few bags for about a month...
still no smell! They're great! Anyway, there are emergency pottys made of the same absorbing stuff as disposable diapers, etc... in a plastic bag. and tie closed...
probably a bunch of other things, too.

 

[Elainera]

More pumps aren't going to help at this time.

In the meantime, crews continued drilling into the south side of the cave complex on Friday to reduce the water level. It’s estimated to take an additional 12 to 18 hours to penetrate approximately 200 meters of rock. Drilling on the north side was suspended, as engineers and geologists work to find an alternate location closer to the stranded group.
According to the document, pumping operations have not been able to significantly lower the water level deep within the cave network. Rescue crews have assessed that the ongoing effort to pump water out from the main entrance of the cave has reached a point where it’s becoming less and less effective, and placing pumps further inside the cave -- beyond the 800 meter mark, where they currently are -- does not seem possible.
Proposed ‘buddy dive’ plan to rescue boys in Thai cave could launch this weekend

Someone on twitter offered to send submercible pumps, they might help.

Parts of the cave are below the normal water table.

It seems to be limestone, you can think about it sort of like a sponge under the topsoil. Even after the rain stops the water that is in the soil and the stone continues to seep through into the caverns and eventually through small seep holes in the bottom of the caverns.

So like if the rains seem minor, that water can show up hours later since it has to go somewhere and down is what gravity dictates.

**sources geology classes and a house with a flood prone basement in limestone land for 15 years**

Thank for explaining!

 

[margarita25]

Thai Cave Rescue Will Be a Murky and Desperate Ordeal, Divers Say

"More than 110 of the divers are Thai SEAL members, and they have set up a command center in a dry area of the cave known as Chamber Three, where crews are based around the clock. It is about a mile from there to the boys, but it is the hardest mile. Most of it is underwater with few air pockets."

 

[keeleydoll]

To clarify, the reason that the parts under the water table were clear when the boys went in was that it was the dry season and any water from previous rains had already seeped through the cavern floors.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Actually, i think you understand it perfectly.

I'm beginning to think they don't believe it's going to be possible.

But help is on the way! Diving out isn't the only option.

A drilling company owner from PA who assisted in the Chilean mine rescue (33 men rescued from 2400 feet below the ground) has offered to bring 50 men (who have experience with the Chilean mine rescue) and all the needed equipment to bring out the boys.

Elon Musk is sending his engineers and is already working on kevlar tubing to inflate with air like a bouncy castle through the tortuous tunnel. Read his twitter account where he briefly discusses what is currently being created to help the rescue.

 

[Spellbound]

Thailand cave rescue: Why can't they drill from above, other questions you want answered

Thailand cave rescue: Why can't they drill from above, other questions you want answered



Isn't there a way, using modern technology, that rescuers could get a more accurate fix from above on where the boys are?
Yes, there is. It's called a radio cave locator and it's basically a beacon that transmits a radio wave from within the cave and lets people on the outside know precisely where the beacon – and the trapped people – are located.

It's unclear if authorities in Thailand are using such a beacon — or if it is making any difference to the rescue effort. Since drilling through such heavy rock would take weeks, having a precise location is probably a moot point.


If rescuers know where the boys are, can't a drill be used to open a hole from above and hoist the boys out?

That's a big cave. Why are rescuers so worried about oxygen?

Can't the water from the cave simply be pumped out?

So, what is the best chance to get the trapped people out?

Can't the boys just swim out with the help of expert divers?

How often do people get trapped like this in caves in the U.S. and other countries? Is this rescue more difficult than others?

Is there any way to prevent these kinds of cave incidents from happening?

 

[margarita25]

"“All is water and dark,” Admiral Arpakorn said. “There are many alleys, up and down. We can say this mission is very brutal.”

One American cave diver, an Air Force rescue specialist who is part of a team sent to help from Okinawa, Japan, said that bringing the boys out now would require shepherding them through underwater passageways as much as a quarter-mile long without air pockets above.

The cave complex, which has never been fully mapped, has many different formations, said the American, who could not be identified by name for security reasons.

It is not a single river running through the cave, he said, and not all of the waterways appear to be directly connected. Pumping water from spots near the cave entrance does not necessarily reduce the level in more distant parts of the network, like where the boys and their coach are."

Thai Cave Rescue Will Be a Murky and Desperate Ordeal, Divers Say

 

[JDG]

Thai navy Seals pay tribute to diver who died in cave rescue

*****
NYT article:
Thai Cave Rescue Will Be a Murky and Desperate Ordeal, Divers Say

"Interviews with the most experienced of the 140 or so cave divers from Thailand and around the world who are here to help have centered on a stark fact: This was already one of the most difficult cave-diving challenges in the world, and now they must somehow keep the weakened boys reasonably healthy in oxygen-depleted air while trying to teach them to attempt an underwater escape. One cave diver called it the underground equivalent of climbing Mount Everest — but with no guides to make things easier.

[Get the latest updates on the rescue in The Times’s briefing.]

Image: "More water pumps arrived Friday at the cave complex."
Credit Lauren Decicca/Getty Images

Please read the NYT article.

I am reposting it to show just how dire a situation these kids and rescuers are in......

This is 'one of the most difficult cave-diving challenges in the world.'.

That was before they had assessed the physical capacity of the boys. Things have only gotten worse over the week.

Please read it and thanks to OP for posting it.

 

[margarita25]

(I wonder how many people are in this thread right now...feels like it might be a lot...)

 

[JDG]

The weather forecast I quoted earlier said Spotty rains possible, its not sure it will rain and if it does it might not be over the cave. Where do you get your times from? In my experience rain is rarely on time.

I googled the weather forecast for that nearby town and then used the hourly report for thunderstorms.
Its been googled so much, it just pops right up.
I agree its 'just' a weather forecast but did you see the pictures of the clouds?? wow.

 

[Spellbound]

Proposed ‘buddy dive’ plan to rescue boys in Thai cave could launch this weekend

According to an internal U.S. government report obtained by ABC News, the Royal Thai Navy, supported by divers from the United Kingdom, the United States and other nations, has briefed Thai military leadership, interior ministry officials and the provincial governor on a proposed operation to evacuate the 12 boys and their coach from the miles-long cave in Chiang Rai province, alongside experienced divers in what is being called a “buddy dive.” Thailand’s prime minister will be briefed on the proposal Saturday morning local time.

Despite the risks, the accelerated timeline would take advantage of the children still having high oxygen levels within the cave complex, their relatively good health and also the fact that this would occur before the heavy rains are forecast to hit the region Sunday, which could raise water levels inside the cave and make a rescue mission even more precarious, according to the document.

A decision timeline was unknown.

If approved, the first phase of the plan -- which involves the ongoing process of staging equipment and clearing obstacles in the cave -- could be completed by 6 p.m. local time Saturday. The second phase – which calls for dangerous and risky “buddy diving” of the soccer team out of the cave network – could start as early as Sunday morning local time.

U.S. dive and medical personnel will support the proposed operation by staging equipment and setting up triage stations, but will not go beyond the third chamber inside the cave, according to the document.


A planned operation to potentially “buddy dive” the group out of the cave, which the United States was going to support by pre-positioning air tanks in the seventh chamber, was cancelled due to the Gunan’s death and the associated risks, according to the internal U.S. government report.

A plan to install an oxygen cable in the chamber also had to be abandoned due to difficulties in routing the cable through the cave’s labyrinth of chambers and narrow passageways.

<modsnip: snipped to comply with 10% copyright rule>

 

[JDG]

Actually, i think you understand it perfectly.

I'm beginning to think they don't believe it's going to be possible.

The government probably has forbidden them from saying so, though.

If you read the NYT article, it always was almost impossible to get these kids out, dead or alive.

Very upsetting indeed.

 

[Elainera]

<modsnip: snipped quoted post>
72cm wide is the narrowest and I think it was about 40cm high. You have to be slim!

 

[margarita25]

I’m afraid if something drastic doesn’t happen now those boys will never leave that cave alive.

Drastic situations require drastic measures...

Ok what about this. A laser beam. Can they shoot a precise hole r whatever. I know there are military ships that can fire these laser beams. I remember posting about it in another thread many years ago.

I mean and even if that’s a possibility how do they get word of the idea? Maybe they’ve thought of that and it won’t work for whatever reason.

Really discouraged and feeling more desperate than ever.

I’m afraid once those rains come...

 

[Spellbound]

view of the Tham Luang cave system.