Timeline based on Police Chiefs Reddit AMAA

[Zodiac_Speaking]

Hello all, I'm new and will get right to it....

First of all, NO, I am not the Zodiac. I was born in 1972 - The handle is just easy to remember.
Second of all, this will be long and I'm sorry about that, reading through it, you may say you know all of this, but I did not...at least the actual particulars coming straight from two different police chiefs) The "pineapple theory" has been in the known for years, even to me, but I'm still going to mention it - But I realize that part is nothing new... at the very end I have several questions that others here may know - and that's what I'm hoping for....

Ok, So, last night I spent a great deal of time reading through TWO police chiefs AMAA on Reddit, of Boulder, who were in charge of the case at one point. Mark Beckner and another fella whose name I cannot recall at the moment. Anyway, I discovered things that I actually never knew or saw on anywhere else... (a few things I might mention might have been covered on TV shows - so don't torch me on this)

I've always wondered about the timeline - and I've always wondered about which came first, the blow to the head or the strangulation. If you want to double check me on WHAT THEY SAID on the AMAA you can look it up yourself as I am too lazy to go and copy and paste everything....(sorry, but I will not lie or make things up)

TIMELINE:
Ramseys say they got home @ 9:30 - 10pm Christmas night - generally accepted as true by everyone (but why accepted??)
AMAA question: What time was the actual "time of death" ?
Answer: 1:00 am

AMAA question: Which came first - the blow to the head or the strangulation?
Answer: (paraphrasing) - We believe she was hit over the head first, and then strangled.

AMAA question: How long was JonBenet alive after the blow to the head?
Answer: (there were 2 answer to this)
Answer 1: Approximately 2 hours after the blow to the head (SHE WAS ALIVE FOR NEARLY 2 hours and THEN Strangled)
Answer 2: 45-90 minutes

So, doing some quick math - They got home at (let's say) 10pm (for ease of math) - If she died by strangulation at 1 am but was alive for approximately 2 hours prior to that - that means she was struck in the head around 11 pm... just 1 hour after arriving home.

Why is this important? It's not, necessarily - but I never knew that specific time line from 2 different police chiefs, and it allows me to speculate better and understand better what probably happened that night...

As a side note - that I concluded last night - Let's take the theory that this was an "accident / fit of rage / moment of anger" thing....
To hit your child (Patsy) on the head in a fit of rage actually makes sense - and is almost forgivable if you are a parent and have ever had kids. They tick you off sometimes. I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying it makes sense and is at least understandable..... what DOES NOT MAKE SENSE in that scenario is that your "rage" continues on for approximately 2 full hours of essentially abusing the heck out of your kid.... even for a ticked off mother / father..... I'm just having a hard time making that part "fit" - even if you're doing it to create the appearance of another crime...(staging, which is what everyone in the police and FBI thought)

What makes more sense to me, and explains the rage - is simply this:
They get home, the kids are tired and cranky, John actually does go to bed, (or somewhere), to leave Patsy to deal with the getting the kids to bed....

They wanted a snack, or Burke did, and Patsy takes Burke to the kitchen area and serves him pineapple and a glass of tea....that explains Paty's fingerprints on the bowl of pineapple and Burkes prints on the bowl and the glass of tea. A very simple explanation.
JonBenet either came down stairs or was already with them, she took a piece of Burkes pineapple and he snapped..... hit her over the head .... Is it really difficult to believe that Patsy may not have even been in the kitchen at that time??? I can easily see her (Patsy) serving the pineapple and going upstairs to "get ready for bed" - leaving the kids alone in the kitchen .... maybe she laid down on the bed with John for a brief moment to "relax" after a hectic day and maybe she fell asleep for a little while.... we all know she never changed clothes....but she could have gone upstairs TO CHANGE AND GET READY FOR BED, but maybe laid down for a minute and accidentally zonked out. When she woke up, she remembered the kids and went back downstairs and "found" everything and the staging began.... that actually makes some sense to me.

Burke, still in a rage - somehow gets JonBenet down to the train room (or thereabouts) to finish her off, torture her even more... but even I admit, THAT is where that theory starts to fall apart. That theory, glossing over it quickly, sounds "plausible" - but I don't think so. In other words, Patsy didn't know what Burke and JB were up to as she wasn't even in the kitchen....

AMAA question: Where do you think the blow to the head happened? In what room?
Answer: (paraphrasing) I / we think it happened somewhere in the kitchen area...

That means someone took JB downstairs to finish her off. Burke? Patsy? John? We'll never know --- but I do think that it was one continuous murder - committed by the same person - (the blow to the head and the strangulation) and the Police Chiefs (at least one of them) said as much.....

AMAA question: Who hit her over the head and who strangled her? (essentially the question)
Answer: Can't say for sure, but we believe it was one and the same person... (Ie: a continuous act by the same person)

To assume it was Patsy is a little hard to swallow for me.
To assume it was Burke is not as hard to swallow for me, but him getting her downstairs is where I start to have my doubts....

Another interesting AMAA thing I never knew:
AMAA question: Did you test the cellar door where JB was found for prints?
Answer: Yes. Palm prints of 2 people were on the door. Patsy and John Andrew Ramsey

So..... understanding the implications of that, and knowing from the case that, by all accounts, JAR was not there that night and could not have been involved, I googled : "How long do fingerprints last?"

The answer was rather simple and surprised me: It was essentially this: If the prints are inside and not subject to weather - prints can last virtually forever. So, JAR palm print on that door is really nothing... but Patsy on the other hand.... ???? (Starting to see why the preponderance of evidence points to Patsy)

My questions:
Not really a question but I do find it interesting that it's generally accepted they arrived home at roughly 10pm... seems the police just took them at their word on that. I'm sure they actually did investigate that claim by the Ramseys, but still....

Everyone knows John "disappeared" that morning at around 10 am when Linda Arndt lost track of him..... and Melinda's boyfriend told police that John had told him that he found JB at around 11 am..... this was actually in the AMAA - and they asked him if he thought John meant Mountain Time or some other time (like Eastern time?) - and the boyfriend answered that since they lived in Mountain Time he assumed John meant Mountain Time...

So my question: Fleet White said he opened that door but it was dark and he didn't see JB. Then John disappears, and I think it's possible he went down there and literally MOVED JB's body from wherever it was to the Cellar room.... which explains why Fleet didn't see it, and then later, around 1pm, they both go back down there and John "finds" her in that very room.....

What do you think about this??? At least one of the police chiefs alluded to the fact that *HE* believes John actually found JB at around 11 am, just like he told the boyfriend of Melinda, NOT 1 pm as the official story goes. Help me out here with this...thoughts??

The other question I have is: Can anyone say or list what we *KNOW* has not been released to the public yet??? And why??? Everyone agrees at this point that the case will never be solved and no one will ever prosecuted - so why hold back the remaining evidence???
And what is that evidence???

Interesting tid bits - Neither chief, if I recall correctly, gives much weight at all to the DNA. One of them even said outright that if we go by the DNA - there were 6 individuals who committed this crime - not 1. That is almost impossible to believe - which is why they don't believe the unknown DNA is really earth shattering info.

I always wondered if the "DNA under her fingernails" was a sign of struggle - IE: she was scratching and clawing at whoever was strangling her - which makes sense - until I found out she was unconscious - (and thus it's impossible) - and not only was she unconscious , she was strangled from behind....meaning even if she was conscious, she would have been clawing at air....

Police believe everything about the strangulation (except for the actual cause of death) , and even the paint brush, the vaginal "wounds" , all of it, was nothing more than staging.

I'm sorry for the long post. Sorry if I rambled. I've been down this rabbit hole for the past week and I wanted to come here and get info and I probably will not post anything else as I too believe it will never be solved and no one will be prosecuted. So.. it's a waste of time of sorts but I am curious about everything I posted and welcome any thoughts on it.

AMAA question: If the case is solved, how do you think it will be solved?
Answer: Confession.

I concur. Sadly.

 

[elainebrussels]

The time of 11h00 point is not convincing to me re JR actually discovered the body at 11h00 rather than 13h00. The person just assumed JR was talking Mountain time. However I think it would be quite normal for JR to explain in their time, ie eastern.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The time of 11h00 point is not convincing to me re JR actually discovered the body at 11h00 rather than 13h00. The person just assumed JR was talking Mountain time. However I think it would be quite normal for JR to explain in their time, ie eastern.

Wouldn't that be the opposite? 13 mountain time is 15 eastern. Either way, I've never seen this as important. We're (as usual) relying on a second hand statement that could have been misheard or misunderstood or misstated (by John). Why would John tell his daughter's boyfriend about finding JonBenet two hours before he did? What would he gain from it?

 

[Ponytale]

As I understand that statement by John was made in the car while they were driving to the Fernie's house. There other people in the car as well not just Melinda's boyfriend. There were John, John Andrew, Patsy, Melinda and her boyfriend Stewart and the Fernie's. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

It is all assumptive, but the statement itself can be found in Thomas' book:

"In a telephone interview, Stewart Long, the boyfriend of John Ramsey's daughter Melinda, recounted for me the sudden rush to reach Colorado that he, Melinda, and her brother, John Andrew, had made on the morning of Dec. 26. When they arrived at the Ramsey home shortly before 1 P.M., they were unaware of anything more than that JonBenet had been kidnapped.
Long said that John Ramsey had climbed into the van with him and John Andrew and told them that JonBenet "was with Beth now." The father and son broke down in tears as John Ramsey described how he had discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning.
I almost dropped the telephone as I reached to make sure the "record" button was pressec on my tape recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"
"I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said eleven o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking of his own time reference."

 

[elainebrussels]

Wouldn't that be the opposite? 13 mountain time is 15 eastern. Either way, I've never seen this as important. We're (as usual) relying on a second hand statement that could have been misheard or misunderstood or misstated (by John). Why would John tell his daughter's boyfriend about finding JonBenet two hours before he did? What would he gain from it?

True in that case maybe his brain got confused like mine . so indeed in the opposite case the 'mix-up' could have been: JR was used to deducting two hours to bring their EST time into his time when having conversations with them; as a result, he referred to 11h00 instead of 13h00. The problem of course was that it was always his time and there was no 'their' time (so should not have 'deducted').

For me also possible also to confuse in this way. One could say less likely for JR reasons such as that he traveled alot, etc....but I think time zone issues can just bring confusion and mistatements in general and this seems more likely on some level for people who are used to doing 'time translations' (for those who are not, seems they will have more general 'alignment' with their usual time IMHO). At the same time; if JR was distraught at the time of making the statement, would say a specific "factor' to contribute to a wrong 'time translation' when speaking (all other things being equal). Otherwise I happen to live in a different time zone than my family so I also speak from that perspective

But hopefully this time makes sense

 

[Zodiac_Speaking]

As I understand that statement by John was made in the car while they were driving to the Fernie's house. There other people in the car as well not just Melinda's boyfriend. There were John, John Andrew, Patsy, Melinda and her boyfriend Stewart and the Fernie's. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

It is all assumptive, but the statement itself can be found in Thomas' book:

"In a telephone interview, Stewart Long, the boyfriend of John Ramsey's daughter Melinda, recounted for me the sudden rush to reach Colorado that he, Melinda, and her brother, John Andrew, had made on the morning of Dec. 26. When they arrived at the Ramsey home shortly before 1 P.M., they were unaware of anything more than that JonBenet had been kidnapped.
Long said that John Ramsey had climbed into the van with him and John Andrew and told them that JonBenet "was with Beth now." The father and son broke down in tears as John Ramsey described how he had discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning.
I almost dropped the telephone as I reached to make sure the "record" button was pressec on my tape recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"
"I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said eleven o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking of his own time reference."

As I understand that statement by John was made in the car while they were driving to the Fernie's house. There other people in the car as well not just Melinda's boyfriend. There were John, John Andrew, Patsy, Melinda and her boyfriend Stewart and the Fernie's. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

It is all assumptive, but the statement itself can be found in Thomas' book:

"In a telephone interview, Stewart Long, the boyfriend of John Ramsey's daughter Melinda, recounted for me the sudden rush to reach Colorado that he, Melinda, and her brother, John Andrew, had made on the morning of Dec. 26. When they arrived at the Ramsey home shortly before 1 P.M., they were unaware of anything more than that JonBenet had been kidnapped.
Long said that John Ramsey had climbed into the van with him and John Andrew and told them that JonBenet "was with Beth now." The father and son broke down in tears as John Ramsey described how he had discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning.
I almost dropped the telephone as I reached to make sure the "record" button was pressec on my tape recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"
"I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said eleven o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking of his own time reference."

Thank you for the reference

 

[risoy60576]

True in that case maybe his brain got confused like mine . so indeed in the opposite case the 'mix-up' could have been: JR was used to deducting two hours to bring their EST time into his time when having conversations with them; as a result, he referred to 11h00 instead of 13h00. The problem of course was that it was always his time and there was no 'their' time (so should not have 'deducted').

For me also possible also to confuse in this way. One could say less likely for JR reasons such as that he traveled alot, etc....but I think time zone issues can just bring confusion and mistatements in general and this seems more likely on some level for people who are used to doing 'time translations' (for those who are not, seems they will have more general 'alignment' with their usual time IMHO). At the same time; if JR was distraught at the time of making the statement, would say a specific "factor' to contribute to a wrong 'time translation' when speaking (all other things being equal). Otherwise I happen to live in a different time zone than my family so I also speak from that perspective










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