UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[Mrs Marple]

I don't know

Cannan is in the frame for Suzy. He's in prison for something else and has been for years (edit since 1988). There has been some interesting discussion on that thread in recent days. I don't think it bears any relation to this case.

 

[Yozzer]

@Mrs Marple I have added to your points...my comments in bold

The thing is her apparently closest friends have denied she behaved that way, the landlord of the pub in Acomb has denied seeing her approaching men, (and was arrested for perverting the course of justice) her family have denied it. (I doubt very much CL would tell her mother anything of that nature; PL is more philosophical). The only ones pointing the finger are from the NH. The NH was her default watering hole and second home. There have been many accounts by other York residents (not just Heworth locals) too numerous to list here and to reference them would take up the rest of my Sunday, of CL's lifestyle in Malton, York & Heworth. Yes this may just be 'village gossip' but when it becomes consistent, and some of it admittedly isn't very nice to read, the police couldn't really ignore it.
Her sister has said she had a habit of picking unsuitable boyfriends, but not that she had multiple affairs and some at the same time. (Her sister knows some of CLs history but since she lives in a different part of the country and has a very different lifestyle I doubt CL would have given her a running account of her love life especially one that did not paint a picture of blissful monogamy). There is an account from a boyfriend, her apparently one serious relationship, who describes someone very different from the Claudia that was painted. Yes, DW. Is it possible her life unravelled somewhat after this period of stability ended?
There is one confirmed affair with Lee Horwell. Do we know that two men went to the police the day she went missing? Like, why would you go right away anyway, panic? a few days later maybe but immediately seems a bit odd. Not sure the exact timing matters here. They went to confess their sins in a timely fashion. The only person saying it is the landlord of the NG.

The secret life of missing chef Claudia Lawrence - and the 'numerous liaisons' with married men | Daily Mail Online

It is clear that the police have known about C’s relationships from the early days of the investigation. The Mail on Sunday has been given the names of two more men, both married, who allegedly had affairs with her. Neither of them could be contacted last week but it is understood that they have been questioned by detectives. Interest in one of the men increased when it emerged that he had sent his Ford Mondeo to a scrapyard. It was later searched by officers and they have still not allowed it to be released.

George F, the 42-year-old landlord, described himself as a close friend of C. He has admitted he had known about two affairs she had had with men from his pub. He said: ‘The day this happened, on the Friday she went missing, two men who’d had - well, who’d known, C - went straight down to the police station and told them about it.’
He added: ‘She’s a close friend of mine, that’s all. I never had a relationship with her other than a friendship. I was questioned by police but they questioned everyone in here.

Personally I think GF protests a little too much in the last paragraph. But he too was married then and had a responsibility as a pub landlord.

 

[Pinkizzy]

The landlord said they never saw anything like that.

The secret life of missing chef Claudia Lawrence - and the 'numerous liaisons' with married men | Daily Mail Online

'One of the pubs that Claudia visited was The Acomb, a vast modern establishment next to a betting shop. Inside it looks rough and down-at-heel. The wallpaper is nicotine-stained and there are fruit machines and a pool table.

The Acomb is mainly used by labourers and bricklayers. Claudia went there to see a friend, Anthony Newby, a kitchen porter who is believed to be in his 40s.

The landlord of The Acomb, Paul Harris, 41, said: ‘She was in here with Ant about three weeks before she went missing. The police came in about a month afterwards and questioned us and they spoke to Ant. They were asking about relationships and if she had any boyfriends.

‘That was obviously their line of inquiry and we thought they must be getting something from The Nag’s Head.

‘We were quite surprised as we’d never seen that side of her. She was never bothering blokes or anything when she was in here.’ '

This is the chap who was arrested in 2014 on suspicion of perverting the course of justice.

It was linked to his wife's necklace or something

 

[MajorLang]

It was linked to his wife's necklace or something

Yes @Pinkizzy. Paul Harris wife had gone to the police station and revealed something about his earlier statement to Police.
She had provided them with some evidence that he had omitted to provide, hence the PCOJ arrest on 23rd July 2014.

This was the detail:

It is reported that his wife went to the Police to provide evidence that was contradictory of Pauls, hence the charge. The information that Paul was alleged to provide that was incorrect has not been revealed.

Mr Harris said his wife went to the police station voluntarily on Wednesday.

He added: “They searched my wife’s car and found a bracelet in it and asked if my wife wore it. She said no, but my girls wear bracelets.”

He also said:” They didn’t question me at all about Claudia’s disappearance. but when I was questioned on Wednesday the police made it clear that all they were questioning me about was a contradiction in one of my statements to another statement I made.”

Was he not then freed from the charge for providing further evidence again to them?

 

[Mrs Marple]

@Yozzer good points well argued - l suppose l feel the need to question some of the assumptions.

If she was having multiple affairs and her friends and family had no idea, then that leads me to believe that either the affairs aren't the motive for her murder, or her 'friends' aren't involved.

It seems that general consensus is that SC was a genuine friend. They regularly met in the NH. Where CL apparently was approaching men left, right and centre. And yet her friend had no idea any of this was going on, right under her nose.

Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

We could probably do with a detailed timeline of the investigation so far.

 

[MajorLang]

@Yozzer good points well argued - l suppose l feel the need to question some of the assumptions.

If she was having multiple affairs and her friends and family had no idea, then that leads me to believe that either the affairs aren't the motive for her murder, or her 'friends' aren't involved.

It seems that general consensus is that SC was a genuine friend. They regularly met in the NH. Where CL apparently was approaching men left, right and centre. And yet her friend had no idea any of this was going on, right under her nose.

Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

We could probably do with a detailed timeline of the investigation so far.

We have a detailed timeline here @Mrs Marple :

Claudia Lawrence-Who Took Her? Who was She?


Happy for you to add to it or critique-Please let me know of any additions or critiques you may have?

 

[MajorLang]

@Yozzer good points well argued - l suppose l feel the need to question some of the assumptions.

If she was having multiple affairs and her friends and family had no idea, then that leads me to believe that either the affairs aren't the motive for her murder, or her 'friends' aren't involved.

It seems that general consensus is that SC was a genuine friend. They regularly met in the NH. Where CL apparently was approaching men left, right and centre. And yet her friend had no idea any of this was going on, right under her nose.

Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

We could probably do with a detailed timeline of the investigation so far.

I will also answer:

"If she was having multiple affairs and her friends and family had no idea, then that leads me to believe that either the affairs aren't the motive for her murder, or her 'friends' aren't involved. "

Or she was having an affair with one of the friends partners and they found out. The partner or friend dealt with this, they were both involved in the cover up and then defended Claudias honour so as not to arouse suspicion?

"It seems that general consensus is that SC was a genuine friend. They regularly met in the NH. Where CL apparently was approaching men left, right and centre. And yet her friend had no idea any of this was going on, right under her nose."

But when Claudia didnt turn up on the planned evening Suzy was not perturbed and thought that she had been "Stood Up"-Suggesting that this had happened at least once before?

Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

 

[Yozzer]

@MajorLang and @Mrs Marple
Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

Yes I think so. Why? Depending on which person's lips are moving....to:

1. Be a genuine friend and defend her honour
2. Conceal a motive for murder
3. Collaborate with police in solving the case by lulling others into a false sense of security

 

[Mrs Marple]

I will also answer:

"If she was having multiple affairs and her friends and family had no idea, then that leads me to believe that either the affairs aren't the motive for her murder, or her 'friends' aren't involved. "

Or she was having an affair with one of the friends partners and they found out. The partner or friend dealt with this, they were both involved in the cover up and then defended Claudias honour so as not to arouse suspicion?

"It seems that general consensus is that SC was a genuine friend. They regularly met in the NH. Where CL apparently was approaching men left, right and centre. And yet her friend had no idea any of this was going on, right under her nose."

But when Claudia didnt turn up on the planned evening Suzy was not perturbed and thought that she had been "Stood Up"-Suggesting that this had happened at least once before?

Or perhaps the denial of knowledge is the lie.

If she found out then why would that result in CL being murdered? For revenge? Yes it happens, but it's far more likely to happen on the spur of the moment. I find it hard to believe this crime wasn't carefully planned or that one person could convince 4 others to off someone for revenge in what was quite a new relationship without any leverage.

In theory, yes, what might make sense is there was an affair, the partner found out, there was an altercation with CL (for example, was she strangled with the cord of the hair straighteners), CL died and they begged their partner to cover it up. Partner roped in mates to help. They stay together as either could give the other one up.

The police are still convinced that she left for work that morning, according to the NYP website. Are they wrong? They surely know more than we do. If she was taken as she left for work, that's back to planning again. Unless the car braking was stopping for a non living person. Bit risky on a main road though. How could someone convince 4 others to help in a murder for revenge or jealousy? Those are very personal things. Wouldn't you tell them to get a grip? Unless those that helped also had something to lose.

 

[Popejohn3]

Cl seemed to like the company of men but not necessarily always sexual.Some relationships start platonic and remain platonic...
It looks like once you meet Claudia you never forget her !
Am I right, friends and family of Claudia ?

 

[Popejohn3]

That breaking car outside Cl house was traveling too fast to my mind, for a planned stop where it did .Unless the driver is not very familiar with the place .

 

[MajorLang]

That breaking car outside Cl house was traveling too fast to my mind, for a planned stop where it did .Unless the driver is not very familiar with the place .

I don't even know why the police showed it as they will have had the Registration information from CCTV and so the ability to trace ownership? It would only be if it had false plates that they would need to appeal.

 

[Kiranerys]

That breaking car outside Cl house was traveling too fast to my mind, for a planned stop where it did .Unless the driver is not very familiar with the place .

Is it possible that the breaking car simply hit her as she crossed the road? Were there eye witnesses to the car or was it just heard breaking?
Apologies as I am not hugely familiar with the thread yet,it has just piqued my interest of late,so I am just trawling through google,reddit etc!

 

[Yozzer]

I don't even know why the police showed it as they will have had the Registration information from CCTV and so the ability to trace ownership? It would only be if it had false plates that they would need to appeal.

Or to jog the memory of a spouse, partner or associate who recognises the car.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I don't even know why the police showed it as they will have had the Registration information from CCTV and so the ability to trace ownership? It would only be if it had false plates that they would need to appeal.

Maybe they don't have the reg. The CCTV quality isn't great. The NYP website suggests they think the driver may be a witness:

Old-style light coloured Ford Focus seen braking

Is it possible that the breaking car simply hit her as she crossed the road? Were there eye witnesses to the car or was it just heard breaking?
Apologies as I am not hugely familiar with the thread yet,it has just piqued my interest of late,so I am just trawling through google,reddit etc!

I think that if Claudia left intending to walk to work, it was three miles, she would have left sooner that 5.42 under normal circumstances. Most people could not run that distance in 18 minutes let alone walk it. Then she would have needed time to get changed into her chef whites. Edit: but yes it is possible.

 

[Yozzer]

@Kiranerys

Is it possible that the breaking car simply hit her as she crossed the road? Were there eye witnesses to the car or was it just heard breaking?

It's possible but why walk into the road when her usual route, confirmed via cctv was to stay on her side of Heworth road? Was she in the car, stopped abruptly to dive in and grab something before being driven on to work?

 

[Eve71]

The focus is involved. The sudden braking, location and timing is just to coincidental imo. I doubt the hair dye has anything to do with the case. It could have been in her bin for weeks, considering the bin was in the bathroom and was possibly rarely used or emptied. The straighteners were possibly packed by Claudia to use at work after her shift if she was planning on going somewhere, or to use in her break if she’d not had time to sort her hour that morning. It’s a known fact she often took her straighteners to work with her.

 

[Eve71]

If we all had to choose one theory as to what happened to Claudia, what would yours be? I’d have to go with stranger abduction on her way to work and her body buried somewhere. All things considered it seems the only possible explanation, imo.

 

[MajorLang]

Maybe they don't have the reg. The CCTV quality isn't great. The NYP website suggests they think the driver may be a witness:

Old-style light coloured Ford Focus seen braking



I think that if Claudia left intending to walk to work, it was three miles, she would have left sooner that 5.42 under normal circumstances. Most people could not run that distance in 18 minutes let alone walk it. Then she would have needed time to get changed into her chef whites. Edit: but yes it is possible.

Even in 2009 this type of CCTV was quite good and if not could be enhanced. What we have here is a piece of CCTV footage that has been blurred.

 

[MajorLang]

If we all had to choose one theory as to what happened to Claudia, what would yours be? I’d have to go with stranger abduction on her way to work and her body buried somewhere. All things considered it seems the only possible explanation, imo.

Why would Police then go in a completely different direction then? They must have evidence to suggest this.
I agree however that all of the sightings on CCTV or reported sightings suggest abduction but this could all be staged to look this way.